PWCC Certified High End

[chaddurbin]

Are these stickers serialized with their own coa and will pwcc keep a database so we can check on them later?

[bobbvc]

Idea taken from coin graders. Stupid idea.

[Bored5000]

Originally Posted by vintagehofrookies

this is why their auctions go for a huge premium and also why I stay away from them

That is why the best strategy is to set a snipe with the maximum amount you are willing to pay.

[Griffins]

Originally Posted by chaddurbin

Are these stickers serialized with their own coa and will pwcc keep a database so we can check on them later?

apparently.

Good to see you back Q!

[Brent Huigens]

We try not to involve ourselves in the discussion because we view the boards as a valuable collector to collector discussion, free of seller influence. We want to take a moment to comment here to simply inform the community of our stance and hopefully limit any confusion.

A couple key points:
1) We are only assessing the eye appeal of a card; not the technical grade. We are not qualified to comment on the technical accuracy of a 3rd party grade and, frankly, we PWCC would not exist without companies like PSA, SGC, and Beckett. We have the utmost respect for the service these companies provide and have zero interest in second-guessing their work.
2) The PWCC ‘High End’ designation has been around since 2012. Nothing has changed here, except we are now certifying it to allow this designation to stay with the card (if the buyer so chooses). I’ll explain more the logic behind this program below.
3) The PWCC High End Certification only applies to those cards which appear FAR better than the assigned technical grade (even though the technical grade may be completely accurate). Case in point, from our entire auction #5 (over 12,000 lots), we applied the High End Certificate to just over 3 dozen cards. The point of this service is not to highlight every strong card we sell; rather to highlight only those cards which appear FAR NICER than the assigned grade. As such, a card grade PSA 8 that appears very strong for the grade would not qualify, but a PSA 8 that looks like a PSA 9 might. This may sound like a subtly but it’s a key distinction for us.
4) We are not implying that we at PWCC are smarter than other advanced collectors. What is unique to our situation is that we are lucky enough to physically hold each card we sell. This gives us the opportunity to review a card beyond what any scan can provide. Bottom line, we do our best to make scans as life-like as humanly possible (despite accusations on some of the sillier posts) but even this is not the same as holding the card in your own hand. For those who are not advanced collectors of a particular issue, our opinion on the eye appeal of a card may carry an even greater weight.
5) We do not charge for this service and the consignor has zero influence over our decision. We are placing our company’s brand alongside the High End Certification so rest assured there will be no shortage of discipline applied to the assessment and oversight of the program. I don’t ask anyone to take this on faith, but I do ask that you give us the opportunity to prove our consistency and steadfastness over time before rendering a presumptive negative verdict.

Why certify cards as ”High End”?
As the hobby matures, the value of eye appeal has taken center stage. 15 years ago most collectors were content simply buying the holder. While the technical grade is still the single most important factor determining value, the eye appeal of a card relative to that technical grade is a close 2nd with truly special examples often bringing 25-50% premiums (sometimes more) than other examples with the same technical grade but lower quality eye appeal. We certify cards as “‘High End” to highlight their extremely special eye appeal for the grade. We feel we are able to make this determination because we are the largest broker of investment-calibur (caliber… just kidding) cards in the country and subsequently have handled more copies of more cards that most collectors. For those who consider themselves experts on a particular issue, I suspect our Certification will factor less into your value assessment of a card we sell.

Why use a Sticker & COA?
Over the last 36 months we have seen a growing epidemic of various other sellers copying our original ”High End”’ model and referring to many of the cards they sell in similar ways. This flood of “High End” labeled cards has confused our original goals, so the new High End Certification aims to formalize the designation and hopefully give those rare deserving cards the proper stage. The other impetus for including a sticker stems from countless past buyers who’ve complained about having purchased one of our “High End” designated cards (and paying a premium) but then losing some of the value as soon as the card sells. The sticker aims to provide buyers with an assessment that can be kept with the card, and then leveraged again if the card should ever be resold.

What’s the criteria for which cards are Certified?
The determination for which cards receive the High End Certification is obviously subjective, but generally applies to cards which we feel show eye appeal of a full grade (or more) higher than the assigned technical grade. For lower graded cards (i.e. 1-5s) the eye appeal may need to be closer to 2 grades higher (in some cases) for that card to be considered. In grades of 8-10 may we may assign “High End” if we feel the card shows eye appeal 0.5 grade higher (i.e. 8s that show like strong 8.5s, or 8.5s that appear like 9s) simply because the value difference is extreme in these high grades. As a general rule the market value on a card needs to be >$250 to qualify for consideration. Really important point is that we are only trying to highlight those cards which show eye appeal of a much higher grade; not simply for strong qualities within the assigned grade. This is exactly why the certification is so rarely applied… more often than not, if a card truly looks NM-MT then it’s already in a PSA 8 holder. However, 1% of the time that NM-MT card receives a NRMT 7 (probably for a good technical reason) but we feel it fair that we highlight that card as being special, because it absolutely is special.

Other comments worth mentioning:
i) Yes, we absolutely will remove the sticker for any buyer that requests it. Once removed and cleaned the sticker DOES NOT leave any residue.
ii) Yes, a full database is maintained (starting with this auction #5) for all High End Certified cards. If the high bidder or a future owner wishes to remove the sticker or have a card reholdered we can reapply the certification at a later date, free of charge (only need to pay return shipping).
iii) We will be reprinting the COAs to fix the spelling error, and we may expand on the language on the card to further clarify our intent and limit confusion (we are not second guessing the 3rd party graders).
iv) For those coin collectors familiar with the CAC sticker, our High End Certification has zero overlap. The CAC sticker is largely a validation of a coin’s technical grade (essentially a second review of the coin’s assessment). Again, our High End Certification is strictly commenting on the superior eye appeal of the card, not the accuracy of its technical grade (which is accurate and justified in most instances).
v) The PWCC High End designation is very rare (only 41 cards out of 12,700 items in our #5 auction). There are literally thousands of the cards in our #5 auction which we feel are strong and impressive cards for their respective grade, and many of these are worthy of a premium. The High End Certificate is strictly for cards which appear far beyond the assigned grade, not simply a strong example within the grade.

We very much appreciate the members who have chosen to be constructive in their comments on this board (some are more than constructive than others ). We will never shy away from constructive criticism and encourage any Net54 member who has feedback on this program to email me directly: brent@pwccauctions.com.

Thanks to all who follow our auctions.

Brent Huigens
PWCC Auctions, LLC

[Leon]

Thanks for the well written response, Brent. As someone who has tried many different things, without most of them reaching the success I had hoped for, I admire your thinking outside the box and doing something different. (even if CAC for coins has been around for years)

Now, that being said, I might be like many on this board and not feel the need to have another pair of eyes looking at my cards. But that is ok, I will just ask for no sticker and all is well. Your "High End" process won't hurt me. Good luck in your endeavors Brent.

[calvindog]

Lots of effort there, Brent; maybe you could have taken some of that time to stop the wide-spread shill bidding that goes on in your auctions.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Lots of effort there, Brent; maybe you could have taken some of that time to stop the wide-spread shill bidding that goes on in your auctions.

Is that constructive criticism?

[TanksAndSpartans]

As someone who has had cards reholdered due to adhesive marks, I'd prefer the stickers be optional.

At a high level, I think there is a trend in the hobby to really value centering to the extent that sometimes I see a lower grade card sell for more than a high grade example and when I look closely, I can often assign centering as the explanation i.e. well centered cards with soft corners can get strong prices. The other thing I notice is that the TPG companies, in my opinion, do not seem to place much weight on a card having a clean surface. I've often seen cards graded 7+ with significant toning/discoloration and similar bright clean cards go unrewarded and wind up with low grades despite having somewhat of a pack fresh look. In theory, in my opinion again, if the TPG companies adjusted for these two issues, the discrepancies between "eye appeal" and "technical grade" would start to go away.

[wonkaticket]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Lots of effort there, Brent; maybe you could have taken some of that time to stop the wide-spread shill bidding that goes on in your auctions.

Jeff, always taking the fun out of things with honesty and reality.

[70ToppsFanatic]

No need for a sticker. The slab's flip # does not change. A simple COA with the slab flip #, PWCC "certification #" and date of sale would eliminate all concerns about residue.

As for the need for this "service", I have no problem with the auctioneer stating that an item appears superior for the grade (in his opinion). I don't think most experienced collectors would take that into account when considering bidding on an item.

However, if I were in Brent's position I think I would be focusing on first addressing other, more commonly mentioned issues and concerns that get raised about his auctions instead of creating a marketing "Good Housekeeping" seal of approval.

[pokerplyr80]

Despite the popular opinion on the forums, it certainly seems this new program is having the desired effect, at least on the 51 bowman mantle. I figured it would close at what it's at now, and there is still a week left.

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

Despite the popular opinion on the forums, it certainly seems this new program is having the desired effect, at least on the 51 bowman mantle. I figured it would close at what it's at now, and there is still a week left.

I knew it would have that effect. If you have Charles Schwab telling you that a certain stock is good, then of course you are going to listen to him, and many people will buy the stock, pushing it up. These are the same pool of bidders that bid on an Art Shell PSA 10 card that looked like a '6' at best. These are the same pool of bidders that bid ungodly amounts on raw cards that look nowhere near as good in hand and they could care less. Nothing surprises me.

[wheels56]

Personally, I'm going after one of these cards. If I win, I'm going to get one of these exceptionally rare "calibur" error certs slabbed (who cares about the card) and then consign it back to PWCC and pray for the "high end" designation...

Imagine that: A "certified high end" "certified high end" error cert. $$$

[wheels56]

In all seriousness, I'm actually a satisfied PWCC customer. On a relative basis, way better than 90% of what is on eBay. Yep, you pay a premium, but the scans are decent, the descriptions are factual, the communication is responsive and helpful, the shipping is quick and well packaged.

From someone that just got back into the hobby a few years ago, I think that PWCC makes the old "buy the card, not the grade" adage easier to grok and execute against. Is this needed for really experienced collectors? Probably not. But for the rest of us, it really helps fill a void in the marketplace.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

I knew it would have that effect. If you have Charles Schwab telling you that a certain stock is good, then of course you are going to listen to him, and many people will buy the stock, pushing it up. These are the same pool of bidders that bid on an Art Shell PSA 10 card that looked like a '6' at best. These are the same pool of bidders that bid ungodly amounts on raw cards that look nowhere near as good in hand and they could care less. Nothing surprises me.

and the same pool of bidders that paid 50 for your 150 dollar valued card!..lol

[Brent Huigens]

We have taken the lead to address the misc concerns raised by a couple members regarding our auctions (scan accuracy, shill bidding, etc). I encourage any interested member to please view that other thread and post your comments.

Thread: PWCC & eBay - help us improve the hobby

Regards,

Brent Huigens
PWCC Auctions, LLC