Two hour interview with.... Bill Mastro

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by OhioLawyerF5

People can think what they want, but I'm a prosecutor. And make no mistake, trimming a card to deceive a buyer into paying more for it will be charged as theft by decpetion every time in my jurisdiction as well criminal simulation. And if you do it as a business model, I will charge with engaging in a pattern of corrupt activity as well (which is a high-level felony in Ohio).

Look up criminal simulation in Ohio. It is RC 2913.32. It describes precisely what trimming a card to deceive is.

While I agree that it is immoral, it can't possibly be theft if the victim isn't out any money. That Wagner isn't worth one penny less as a result of it having been trimmed. The same is true of the controversial Wemby Black Prizm 1/1 that was polished by Kurt's Card Care. It's not worth a single penny less today. These cards can and will be transacted at full market value into perpetuity. There is no victim.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Snowman

While I agree that it is immoral, it can't possibly be theft if the victim isn't out any money. That Wagner isn't worth one penny less as a result of it having been trimmed. The same is true of the controversial Wemby Black Prizm 1/1 that was polished by Kurt's Card Care. It's not worth a single penny less today. These cards can and will be transacted at full market value into perpetuity. There is no victim.

How about your garden variety card, let's just arbitrarily say a 1956 Mantle PSA 6. Let's say I have two very similar examples. Both are trimmed, but it isn't obvious to most. I sell one with no disclosure. I sell the other in the same venue, but disclose prominently that I lightly trimmed it. Same price?

[OhioLawyerF5]

Originally Posted by Snowman

While I agree that it is immoral, it can't possibly be theft if the victim isn't out any money. That Wagner isn't worth one penny less as a result of it having been trimmed. The same is true of the controversial Wemby Black Prizm 1/1 that was polished by Kurt's Card Care. It's not worth a single penny less today. These cards can and will be transacted at full market value into perpetuity. There is no victim.

Did you look up criminal simulation? The crime is for altering an item with intent to defraud. Actual value isn't an element, just that you committed the act to try to raise the price.

But hey, I've only been a prosecutor for 16 years. You clearly know more about the elements of criminal offenses than me. Nothing I say will convince you. And frankly, nothing a jury says would convince you. You would sit behind bars arguing the jury doesn't know what they're talking about.

[calvindog]

I’ve been a criminal trial lawyer for 34 years, tried 50 cases to verdict, but the guy with Asperger’s knows more about what a criminal jury will do than me.

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by calvindog

I’ve been a criminal trial lawyer for 34 years, tried 50 cases to verdict, but the guy with Asperger’s knows more about what a criminal jury will do than me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCWCSgBgJ0E

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by OhioLawyerF5

Did you look up criminal simulation? The crime is for altering an item with intent to defraud. Actual value isn't an element, just that you committed the act to try to raise the price.

But hey, I've only been a prosecutor for 16 years. You clearly know more about the elements of criminal offenses than me. Nothing I say will convince you. And frankly, nothing a jury says would convince you. You would sit behind bars arguing the jury doesn't know what they're talking about.

When the FBI jumped into the PWCC and related offenders' investigation the cards in question were worth more at the time of the investigation than buyers would have paid for those cards yet they poured time and resources into the investigation for years.

Using Snowman's reasoning they must have dropped the matter once they realized, years later, that there were no victims because the cards were worth more than people paid for them.

[4815162342]

[todeen]

I ran out of time to watch the whole conversation. Thank you for posting this, Peter. I was too young for even junk wax 80s boom, buying my first pack at 6 years old, I bought 1991 Topps. And then the strike happened. It was a very different hobby in the late 1990s than before, and even the late 90s was very different than present. But I grew up on a Beckett subscription. But the depth of knowledge on this site has been wonderful. I love interacting in this community and learning collecting history. This site is better than any Beckett magazine I owned.

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[bcbgcbrcb]

Figures this topic would bring 237 posts in 5 days.

[tycobb]

BM - “The card it it looks like a football “



sorry if the image appears a lil bit Crook-ed


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[perezfan]

Originally Posted by tycobb

BM - “The card it it looks like a football “



sorry if the image appears a lil bit Crook-ed

Speaking of former football shaped cards and being Crook-ed, don't forget our good friends at PSA.

[tycobb]

Originally Posted by perezfan

Speaking of former football shaped cards and being Crook-ed, don't forget our good friends at PSA.

Ah yes how could we forget the folks over at

Petty Suspicious Authenticators aka Professionally Suspicious Authenticators


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[TheSportsTrader1964]

Bill Mastro was a frequent advertiser in my monthly sports collector's journal: The Sports Trader, along about years 1968 and 1969. I never received a single complaint on his dealings with collectors at that time. I think he was very young at the time.