Why Aren't More Higher Grades Posted?

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Posted By: Bob Pomilla

David,
At least you get the Brittney Spears response. When I tell someone I collect baseball cards, they avert their eyes and suddenly remember they have to pick up their dry cleaning.

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Posted By: cmoking

When i tell someone I collect cards, they ask: "oh, do you want to buy my 80s and 90s crap?"

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Posted By: barry arnold

i remember when one of my nephews was promoted to asst. mgr. of kentucky fried chicken and would barely speak to any of the family for a bit because
of his new high ranking.
i also remember seeing the dalai lama(with sweat pouring from his face) offer his fan to a person standing
near him during the hottest of weather.
last week, i saw a former provost of a major univ. pushing a walker as best
he could, begging to go home (while waiting to have dental work).

they are baseball cards. they are tremendous fun.
they do help bring about fabulous dialogues and friends.

but they are as the song says 'nothing to get hung up about.'

barry

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Posted By: warshawlaw

Post a few; I'd rather look at her than a bunch of dead white guys in baggy uni's

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

As far as trolls go this was a pretty good one. The bait was stinky and the catch far exceeded the legal limit.

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Posted By: martin dalziel

I like Rich's summation. Each to their own and why pass judgement on anyone over their collecting habits.

My means don't allow me to collect high grade. I would if i could but i can't, but..........

If i could collect high grade i'd be a lot less likely to post them in the 'recent pick up' threads than the stuff i do post today. Why? Because, and I'm talking about me only here, I wouldn't want to look like I'm showing off. I feel that way sometimes today with the "look what i've got" posts i make, so I know it would multiply multifold.

Maybe there are others who feel the same way and thats why you don't see so many high-grade posts.

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Posted By: Mike Ernst

This type of disparity of viewpoints is not unique to the baseball card hobby, as pointed out earlier.
There are those who look down their nose at anyone who has a vintage Corvette with wrong color paint job, incorrect wheels, improper air cleaner, etc., etc.
There are those who look at those with correct paint, wheels, air cleaner, etc., etc. as snobs.
And there are those who just like Corvettes and have enough ego strength to be comfortable.
I prefer to be around the third group, myself, and prefer those who just enjoy baseball cards rather than being superior or inferior.

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Posted By: Judge Dred (Fred)

Maybe people just don't want to sell their 7's, 8's and 9's on the BST. Does that mean that there's something wrong with the BST? No, it just means that people that use the BST aren't interested in selling their higher graded cards via this channel (or at all).

Bruce, just out of curiosity, you say you have the toughest want list - I'm assuming that means that you are looking for the exotic, the rare and the truly difficult to find material. Why don't you let us know what are the grades of the cards you're finding from your toughest want list.

Just a thought, if people pick up nice material from Mastro, REA and the likes then the high grade cards in question are available for your viewing pleasure and your want list (if any cards on your want list are in those auctions) at the auction sites and it wouldn't be necessary for you to have to filter through all the drivel in the BST and the pick-up threads.

Like people have mentioned, some of the "toughest" cards aren't available in 7's, 8's and 9's. Perhaps it's all relative and subjective to what we each consider "tough".

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Posted By: JimB

Bruce,
When you posted in the BST that you had recently acquired some high-grade E93s I sent you a private e-mail asking about what you picked up because I am also a high-grade E93 collector and was simply curious about what is out there. You would not tell me what you had and sent back a rather curt response. If that is your approach, why would you expect others to share their collections here?
JimB

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Posted By: bruce Dorskind

To the Board

I asked a simple question "Which is why more high grade cards were not posted?"

I never questioned why some people collect ungraded cards or cards graded in 3, 4 or 5.

It never ceases to amaze me how many insecure collectors there are who personalize
anything which questions their right to collect what they want.

In fact, I have posted a number of items included the highest known graded Just So
and the second highest graded Four Base Hit.

In the past three months I have picked up 35 rare type cards (E, R and T) graded 7 8 or 9.

The problem in posting has had more to do with bandwith and difficulty in posting from
my MAC to the Board...nothing else.

I could care less if someone has $100M collection or a $100 collection.

What I do care about is the attitude of some collectors who believe that those of us
who wish to spend our billions on baseball cards don't have the right to collect what
we wish. They take some pride in collecting beaters.

Funny, look at what sells in the coin hobby or in art..In my view the 8 and 9 cards
from the rare sets are the masters.

With regard to the comment of why I purchased a PSA 5 Plows Candy...and negotiated with
the seller...my goal is to obtain the cards I want at the best possible price. The seller
was not under any obligation to sell to me. In fact, I sold the card for double what I paid
him three months later and obtained a plows candy in a grade 7 with the profit.

So call me a snob, an elitist or a capitalist...but I am a true collector who has always attemped
to buy the very best cards in top condition. I bought my PSA 6 Just So from Rob Lifson for
500 in 1977. That was a record price and I have no problem paying record prices if I like
the card...even if I don't care for the seller.

Everyone should collect what they like and enjoy the hobby. It is after all a hobby.
It is those that condem the hobby's finest collections who are doing the judging. And in my book their
judgement would not even warrant a grade of 1 from any service. ever.

Bruce

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Posted By: Richard Masson

Jay, Bill Orsatti called.
He wants his card back.

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Posted By: Bottom of the Ninth

Is it just me or does Bruce simply just come off as a complete tool?

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Posted By: fkw

Id like to see a 7,8,9 of one of these cards!! If they exist you can count them on one hand.

T204 square, T208, T214, T215 Pirate, T216 Kotton paper, T216 Virginia Extra, T217, E97 B&W, E99, E100, E104, E107, E221, E222, E223, E224, E271, Orange Border, Base-Ball Bats, All Star Base-Ball, J=K, Wash. Times, Balt. News, Big Eater, Western Playground, D303 Mothers, D380, D380-1, 1915 W-Unc., etc., etc.

And this list from the top of my head is only from sets between 1909-1916!
There are dozens more.......

Many of these "type" cards I would be happy with one that was torn, glued, taped, doodled on, etc. I would be happy with a "1" grade!

98% of the so called high grade rare cards are not rare at all, they are only rare in their grade. As a "type" collector, I take what I can find, some of these are only offered once every few years in any grade.

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Posted By: Mark

...because it takes time to soak and stretch, then re-cut the cards into PSA 7, 8 and 9's......

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Posted By: Judge Dred (Fred)

Greg, did you mean stool or tool?

Edited to add: Frank, nicely stated.

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Posted By: Bottom of the Ninth

Hey Fred,

What I really meant, I could not post but if the shoe fits...

Greg

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Posted By: John S

It was never a goal of mine to have the world's finest collection or to take pride in paying record prices for cards. That's the kind of crap Mr. Mint advertises and that is what has turned the hobby into an industry. Worse yet, it has made the hobby a competitive outlet for some individuals. Join a flag football team or a bowling league. Collecting cards is enjoyable for me and a diversion. I look forward to someday telling my son and hopefully daughter stories about the football and baseball players in my collection. If collecting is an ego thing then you are in it for the wrong reasons. Bragging about prices and having the cards with the sharpest corners....BFD. You hurl accusations of insecurity; take a look in the mirror pal.

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Posted By: JimCrandell

Bruce,

Sounds as if you have a great collection.

Nothing like PSA or SGC 8s and 9s in pre-war(in my opinion).

I'd love to see them.

Jim

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Posted By: E, Daniel

Bruce, you're a pompous ass.

My comment only came back graded an "Authentic", but I'm happy with it!


Regards
Daniel

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Posted By: Chad

If the market for mid-grade cards collapsed--that is, those of us who deal with the world of creases and dinged corners decided since we can't afford the "best" then screw it--what would happen to the value of the higest grade cards? That is, what would happen if only the handful of collectors, relatively, were left to duke it out for the 8's and 9's while the 5's and lowers went completely ignored because the large mass of card collectors abandoned the hobby? This is kind of rhetorical as I think the entire hobby would collapse but I'm often wrong. Am I wrong? Again, this isn't to knock the high end collectors, but just to say I think it's healthy for the hobby that people have a passion for the high and low end of the spectrum.The publicity of the high end stuff attracts collectors and the low end stuff allows them to actually participate. So yeah, tool and stool sound about right.

--Chad

Oh yeah, and I wasn't knocking snack cakes. My preference runs to ring dings, but I'm kind of snooty aout these things.

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Posted By: Lee Behrens

I paid the most of anyone in Alexandria, MN for a baseball card!!!!!!!!!

Boy, I am somebody now I better alert the media.

Bruce, your comments come across as quite arrogant, I think you can just look at a collector such as Hal Lewis that has plenty to spend but treats it like a kid in a candy store instead of the rich kid on the block that can get what he wants.

Lee

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Posted By: warshawlaw

I don't think he means to be condescending, arrogant and obnoxious; he just can't help it. Imagine being so bunged up that you have to compete (with yourself) for the best (of the best of the best, sir!).

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Posted By: honus3415

I basically find it hard to consider someone a collector when their expectation is to sit back and have the items they desire come to them. But then that is what money has done to this hobby. No longer is a collector identifiable by his knowledge and dedication through time spent directly involved in the hobby. The electronic age and grading has created pseudo-collectors that because of their resources, without even taking a step, can use a mouse and attempt to fill the void of emptiness in their lives. The selfishness of "hoarding from others" as opposed to "sharing with others" is what seperates the pseudo-collector from the true collector as well as animals from man.

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Posted By: cmoking

I say 'wow'. Not at Bruce's posts....but at many of the responses in this thread.

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Posted By: Anonymous

Yes to tool.

Bruce,
The term master in art does not refer to a technical grade of the material. It refers to the conceptual genius and beauty of the creator of the material.

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Posted By: Frank Evanov

"So call me a snob, an elitist or a capitalist"

Huh??

If the quality of the material on this board is beneath you, maybe you should start your own Forum...call it "Net 8.0 or better".

Frank

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Posted By: JimCrandell

King,

I agree.

The responses to Bruce's post are far worse than anything Bruce said.

In response to the gentleman on this thread who said can't we be respectul of each other--what a lot of the respondents are saying is clearly no--we can't--

Jim

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Posted By: davidcycleback

My collecting philosophy is that a person collect whatever he wants, so long as he's knowledgeable about what he collects. It's fine to collect 2 cent postcards, as long as you don't pay $150 each for them. There's nothing wrong with collecting mass produced reprints, so long as you don't think they're rare originals.

If someone wishes to collect the free AOL advertising cards she receives in her PO Box, knowing they have no financial value and millions receive them, I see nothing wrong with that. In fact she may be the truer collector, knowing she will never gain financially from her hobby.

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Posted By: Chad

But I don't see anything particularly harsh about the replies in this thread. In fact, looking back on the post that started it all, I'm really more entertained than irked. Mr. Dorskind comes across as a man of many resources and all the gravitas of a millionaire trapped on a desert island with a skipper a movie star and a professor who can make radios from coconuts. In fact, I'd really like to have a beer with him. Imported beer of course and at a bar that doesn't have a Megatouch machine or a jar of anything pickled sitting on the bar.

--Chad

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Posted By: Al Crisafulli

There's nothing at all wrong with collecting only the higher-grade cards.

There's nothing wrong with collecting only the lower-grade cards, either.

Nothing wrong with EX condition cards.

Nothing wrong with trimmed cards.

But those VG-EX guys? They're killing the hobby.

-Al

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Posted By: JimCrandell

Chad,

I respectfully disagree.

So far on this thread we have learned that high grade collectors aren't real collectors but are just using a mouse to fill a void in their lives; that only those who have low grade affordable cards are true collectors; that high-grade collectors should look at themselves in the mirror; that Bruce is arrogant, obnoxious and condescending; or my favorite argument that the cards must be altered.

"Everyone is deserving of respect for what they collect and how they collect". You can have the same love for the hobby being a psa/sgc 9-10 pre-war card collector as being an ungraded collector of poor/fair cards.

Jim

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Posted By: Chad

I just think that those comments you mention are directed at Bruce and not high grade collectors in general. I always like seeing your stuff posted, especially the Mattys. And like I said, I think the hobby is better off for having people who love the gem mint 10's to the most awful of beaters. Anyway, happy Derby day. I'm off to make my bets!

--Chad

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Posted By: jay behrens

Chad, I'm disappointed. It's not a real bar if doesn't have a jar of pickled eggs. Nothing like the aftereffects of those and beer Throw in some jalapenos and you've got a truely dangerous combo.

Jay

I like to sit outside, drink beer and yell at people. If I did this at home, I would be arrested. So, I go to baseball games and fit right in.

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Posted By: jay behrens

Jim, no one is denigrating what or how Bruce collects. They are more stunned that he fails to realize why he doesn't see the things he wants to see. If has a true understanding of the hobby and marketplace, then it should be pretty obvious to him, since it is to most others.

I can also understand why sympathize with him. You have a lot in commmon, both collecting very high grade material and coming off as pompous jerks almost every time you post.

Just calling 'em like I see 'em.

Jay

I like to sit outside, drink beer and yell at people. If I did this at home, I would be arrested. So, I go to baseball games and fit right in.

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Posted By: JimCrandell

Jay,

You think I'm a jerk and I think you are one but it is always you who starts the name calling and as the greatest president in our lifetime would say "there you go again."

Pretty immature.

Jim

"Everyone is deserving of respect for what they collect and how they collect"

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Posted By: jay behrens

You say it's name calling, I say it's acurrately decsribing two pompous, arragant, jerks. If looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, I'm gonna call it a duck. I'm not going call it anything else.

You may think I am a jerk for being honest about my feelings and opinions, but you will never have to wonder where I stand on any issue.

Jay

I like to sit outside, drink beer and yell at people. If I did this at home, I would be arrested. So, I go to baseball games and fit right in.

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Posted By: Andrew Parks

Bruce,

In the past few days there have been two high grade cards posted in B/S/T - an SGC 84 T205 Mathewson and an SGC 84 E95 Carrigan.

Here are the links so you can buy them:

T205 Matty:
http://www.network54.com/Forum/376260/thread/1146707314/last-1146748779/SGC+84+T205+Matty

E95 Carrigan:
http://www.network54.com/Forum/376259/thread/1146940772/last-1146951830/For+Trade-+E95+Bill+Carrigan+SGC+84

Have at it, big guy!

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Posted By: warshawlaw

Bruce started off complaining about why it was that no one was posting high grade cards as recent acquisitions. Fair enough. But he took it further by then stating that the grade was what matters ("When it comes to rare baseball cards, nothing is more important that the quality of the image...the grade!!"). To many collectors this is waving a red cape in front of a bull because from finance or preference they don't see collecting that way. The responses were as would be expected. Bruce then threw oil on the fire by posting again, this time making statements that were perhaps unintentionally offensive:

"It never ceases to amaze me how many insecure collectors there are who personalize anything which questions their right to collect what they want."

Yes, when someone questions a collector's right to collect what they want, they personalize it; they do so because the criticism is personal in nature.

"They take some pride in collecting beaters."

Yes, they do. And I am glad they do. The implication of Bruce's statement is that no one who collects beaters should take pride in their collection. Once again, Bruce is telling folks who don't collect what he deems worthy that their collections are no good. It is insulting, condescending and arrogant.

"So call me a snob, an elitist or a capitalist."

OK, he invited it, so the folks here obliged.

"I bought my PSA 6 Just So from Rob Lifson for 500 in 1977. That was a record price and I have no problem paying record prices if I like the card...even if I don't care for the seller."

I actually laughed at this story because the wording was pregnant--it implied that Bruce doesn't like Rob Lifson. I assume that this is not the case but he can answer that himself.

The point I am making is that Bruce made intentionally provocative statements in a public forum and is being hammered for it.

And BTW, a lot of collectors I know do not post their high grade acquisitions because they don't want a public record of what cards they own. Count me in on that end of things.

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Posted By: JimCrandell

Well I was going to be like Jay and be an a-hole but I got an e-mail saying Jim--take the high road-- so I will.

In response to the poster who says "why can't we all get along"--first hand evidence.

Jim

"Everyone is deserving of respect for what they collect and how they collect"

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Posted By: honus3415

Jim

Respect is something one earns through their words and actions, it is not something one "deserves" solely because of their material possessions.

True, the value of one's collection is not the defining factor as to what makes a true collector but rather it is their motive for collecting those items that seperates the two and one's motive is revealed through one's own words and actions.

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

I wonder if Bruce had been the opposite type of collector - collecting beaters and harrumphing anyone dumb enough to buy PSA 8 and up - if the collective responses would have been so harsh and personally insulting. Is it psychologically easier to attack a rich guy because deep in your heart you know he has enough assets to make it all better?

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Posted By: bruce dorskind

I think The Board are going to set a record for number of posts and
for name calling.

Yes, I said I would buy the card even if I did not care for the
seller but in no way shape or form that I did imply that I did not
like Rob Lifson.

In fact, I have worked closely with Rob for 30 years. In my view, he
is the most qualified professional in the hobby.

I have no problem with the challenges to my style, or even the level of immaturity
and child-like name calling used by inept adversaries.

But I do have an issue with the fabrications and vague references
that are met to stir the pot.

The level of hate expressed by certain collectors against other
collectors reminds me of the Muslim terrorists or the Nazis. You would
think they have more important things to do with their time

You may think I am pompous or arrogant, but the personal attacks and inappropriate
personal references to my wife or mother (I am not married) are neither necessary or warranted.

I will be happy to share all of the comments made by said collectors
privately. You can judge for yourself.


Clearly there are collectors who enjoy beaters and even those who
attack those of us who prefer the high grade cards. And that is good
for everyone.

Finally, comments about true collectors taking advantage of technology
and personal wealth are not credible.

Back in the late 19th century ---when there were active Old Judge collectors,
were those who used Alexander Graham Bell's new invention to
speak with a potential trading partner considered less of a collector
than someone who wondered from farm to farm to find cards.

Time for the Board members to get some manners and for everyone
to grow up. And time for a great deal more editing.


Bruce

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Posted By: E, Daniel

In fact, your musing has me surprised!!
Just in the last couple of weeks, and I hate to say my memory won't allow for whether it was 3 days ago or 2 weeks (oh for a mind that could retain short term memory....) we had a similarly vociferous discussion on your exact premise.
And I, and a great many others, were just as moved to defend the rights of those who would collect high end cards and pay whatever they felt justified.

What it comes down to, as clearly pointed out a number of times in this thread by others, is that some people - read Bruce, are simply unable to show any class or understanding when framing their thoughts in words.
If you don't see it when reading the post, and Bruce's follow-ups, then you're simply not trying very hard.
If the responses are overly stinging, please believe me, they are in exact proportion to the offensive nature of his statements. To the last, Bruce simply cannot do anything other than sound like a complete cad who feels most on this board are beneath him.
Well, don't look down Bruce, just look to the side. Your fellow man would only have you treat and speak to him as such! You might even make a few friends along the way..............

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Posted By: JimCrandell

Manners??? What are they?? Much more important in the eyes of at least one to let the insults fly and keep at least some serious collectors from posting on this board.

As King points out, jealousy is a powerful motivator and unfortunately manifests itself here.

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Posted By: Bob Pomilla

"Time for the Board members to get some manners and for everyone
to grow up."

Uh, does your quote below, comparing members of this forum to Nazi's and terrorists,
represent the kind of maturity you would like to see from them?



"The level of hate expressed by certain collectors against other
collectors reminds me of the Muslim terrorists or the Nazis. You would
think they have more important things to do with their time."

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Posted By: John S

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Posted By: Ryan Christoff

Hell, I'm just impressed it took nearly 90 posts on this thread for someone toss in a Nazi reference.

Quick tip for Bruce: you might want to go back and preview your posts, checking for spelling and grammar, prior to posting them. Otherwise you might be mistaken for the long lost 3rd Behrens brother.

I'm assuming in your orignial post you meant "When it comes to rare baseball cards, ONE THING is more important THAN the quality of the image...the grade!!"

-Ryan

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Posted By: Frank Evanov

"The level of hate expressed by certain collectors against other
collectors reminds me of the Muslim terrorists or the Nazis. You would
think they have more important things to do with their time."

There you go, playing the Nazi card again.

Not cool referring to board members in those terms.

Frank

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Posted By: Anonymous

Yo...Davalillo...nobody here is jealous of you.

most here just think you collect very common material...in plastic holders deemed by a bunch of PSA monkeys to be worthy of your money.


get a grip.

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Posted By: JimCrandell

Dave,

Are you on the bottle again?

Jim