The projection is August 4th!

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Posted By: Brett

Bonds took steroids. He can't give you a straight answer about it which is funny. Its always "not knowingly took steroids..."

He could have been taking steroids most of his career for all we know and not just since he broke the single season HR record. Actually, Marris should still hold that record because MacGwire and Sosa were obviously on steroids too during that time. I also heard somewhere that Roger Clemens took steroids. I think if the records were made public, over 50% of the 30+ HR 100+ RBI guys took steroids at one point.

Also, its not like it takes much skill anymore to hit HRs... I mean, look at the terrible pitchers in the majors... they should be in the minor leagues. Its just like every major sport. There are wayyyyyyy too many teams in baseball, hockey, football and basketball. Too many teams = too many sub par players filling the roster who normally wouldn't make it in the big leagues before all of this expansion.

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

Peter my analogy was that Mr Lay was rich before he plundered. Bonds was great before he juiced.

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Posted By: Steve f

ch ch ch changesssssss...

God, I hope he pulls up lame.

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Posted By: barrysloate

Look how skinny he was! He doesn't look like he could even hit one to the warning track with that build. People often gain weight as they age, but mostly with extra helpings of mashed potatoes.

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Posted By: peter chao

Guys,

This whole steroids problem blew up during Bud Selig's term. He needs to take some responsibility for this steroid mess. But he won't, I say he's going to pretend nothing has happened and will celebrate Barry's breaking of Aaron's record.

Peter

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

The steroid era goes back to Giammati's term. Anyone remember the offensive explosion of 1987? Canseco claimed he was juicing all the way back at the start of his career. This is not to say that Selig doesn't shoulder some of the blame of looking away because by 1998 it was obvious to most baseball insiders that something was going on with regards to steroids. You should also remember that the players union until recently has fought every effort to have players tested for drugs.

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Posted By: peter chao

Dan,

And although Selig knew that both McGwire and Sosa were probably juiced he cheered long and hard for McGwire to break Roger Maris' record.

Peter

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Posted By: howard

One difference between Perry's brand of cheating and Bonds' alleged cheating is that Perry's opponent had the right to ask the umpire to check for anything illegal while a particular game was going on. A team victimized by a steroid abuser has no remedy other than to wait for him to fail a random drug test. Perry was accused over and over again during his career and seldom, if ever, caught. This suggests that he was either damn good at cheating(a talent in itself) or that he dealt mostly in mind games, making the hitter think that he doctored the ball.

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

Peter, he may have had suspicions, but he couldn't have asked for anything better to lure fans back after the disastrous 1994 season than a run at Maris's record. If you think Selig is looking at Bonds breaking Aaron's record as a positive for baseball then I think you need to take off your homer tinted glasses.

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Posted By: Judge Dred (Fred)

Art,

Great stats, here's one that you should have included:

1998 and before he hit 411 HRs in 7024 at bats (about 1 every 17.1 AB)
1999-2006 he has hit 323 in 2483 at bats (about 1 every 7.7 AB)

The only thing that skews the above stat is that his HR/AB numbers were probably in the HR / 13AB range for the 4 years prior to his new found ability to jack the ball even harder. But I figure even if he was cranking the ball at that clip he'd still probably slow down like most ball players do when they reach 40. Remember, he'll be 43 at mid season.

If you extrapolate his 2483 AB at the prior HR rate he'd be up to about 546 HRs today. I suppose you couldn't really use that stat because the pitchers saw a big difference between Bonds post 1998.

Pitchers walked him 1357 times in 1898 games (1998 and before). That's .715 BB per game.
Pitchers walked him 1069 times in 962 games (1999-2006). That's 1.11 BB per game, a huge increase.

That could be an arguement why his HR total is only 546 at a constant rate of 17.1 AB. I figure he could be near 600 if he was walked at the old rate and without the juice. That's still nice territory. He may not have passed his uncle Willie had he done it au natural.

Bond's is still a great player, roids or not - I just think that Bonds HR total makes Aaron's number something to be in awe of.

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Posted By: peter chao

Dan,

I think that Bud Selig and MLB is going to celebrate Bonds breaking of the record like there was never a steroid scandal. MLB is still in denial, they actually believe that they have the problem under control.

They are very aware that there will be a new U.S. Attorney in CA and that by the time he gets up to speed, Barry would be long gone and unlikely to be indicted.

They are going to take a calculated gamble.

Peter

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

Peter, the verdict of public opionion is already out. Bonds used steroids, HGH or any other number of performance enhancing drugs. I don't really care what MLB or the California AG think or what they are doing. Barry Bonds is despicable and any celebration of his "accomplishments" is a waste of time. The only thing I dread more than Bonds breaking the record is ESPN showing every single Bonds AB.

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Posted By: Al C.risafulli

Fred, yes, there's no doubt that his home run output increased after 1998, by about 8 per year (not counting the one big year).

When looking at Bonds, I factor out the years from 1986 through 1989, because he was just a skinny kid who was still developing. I also factor out 2005, when he was hurt for most of the year.

One thing that has blown me away about Bonds has been his plate discipline. He began drawing walks at a high level in 1989 when he walked 93 times. He eclipsed 100 for the first time in 1991, then brought things to a new level in 1992 by walking 127 times. Except for 1994 (strike), he eclipsed 120 walks each year until 1996, when he jumped to 150. He then began posting absolutely astronomical walks numbers in the 73-homer season of 2001 (177 walks), hit 198 walks in 2002, and a ridiculous 232 walks in 2004.

I will not deny this man is doped up under whatever he can get his hands on.

But I will also point out a STAGGERING batter's eye. Only Ted Williams drew close to the number of walks per season on a consistent basis. Walking 120 times a year requires insane discipline, and Bonds has done it TEN TIMES (and he walked 115 times last season).

I realize that his bulk enables him to hit the ball farther. But his EYE enables him to hit the ball at all - or draw a walk. And if you look at home runs per at bat, you see one thing. If you look at home runs per plate appearance, the increase is not quite as dramatic. 18.5 between 1990 and 1998, and 12.3 between 1998 and 2006 (not counting 2005, when he was hurt).

In other words, balls that were outs before 1998 are walks today. Wouldn't it make sense, that if he's improved his eye in terms of which pitches to let go, wouldn't he have also improved his eye in terms of which pitches to HIT?

And yes, he's taken an inordinate amount of intentional walks. But how many of them were "Barry Bonds is a bloated juice-hound who will hit the ball to Saturn if I throw him a strike" intentional walks, and how many were "Barry Bonds is the only guy in this lineup who can hit, so I'll just walk him and pitch to Benito Santiago" intentional walks?

I don't know the answer.

So I don't know how many home runs are attributable to steroids and how many are attributable to a smaller park, a better batting eye, steroid use among pitchers, bad expansion-era pitching, and wind in San Francisco. So until someone can give me a mathematically correct number for each of those variables, I prefer to say that Barry is a tremendous talent who will break Hank Aaron's home run record.

-Al

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Posted By: peter chao

Al,

It's probable that Barry will break the record, but will MLB celebrate the breaking of the record. Sure they will because they have always protected the bottom line and the bottom line is MLB will make plenty of bucks from the breaking of the record.

Peter

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Posted By: Al C.risafulli

I think it will be a subdued celebration. Justafiably so. As mentioned earlier, MLB does need to acknowledge the record when it's broken.

I believe Bonds will retire after he breaks the record, and he'll go quietly into the sunset.

The celebration will be much larger in a few years when Alex Rodriguez breaks Bonds' record. Once again, justafiably so. Hopefully by then Alex will have learned to keep his feet on the ground and out of his mouth so that fans start liking him again.

-Al

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Posted By: David Smith

Al, no doubt Bonds is a good athlete but the problem I have is he CHEATS!!!

He cheated on his wife with numerous mistresses.
He cheated on his taxes (being paid for baseball card shows and memorabilia sales and not reporting the income). He then used that money to pay for his mistreses.
He cheated in baseball.

As far as his eyesight goes, one of the (many) drugs he used was an animal hormone or derivative (I think). One of the benefits of that drug was increased eye acuity. So, as other athletes aged and their eyesight decreased, Bonds eyesight actually got better. Combine that with his other drug use which increased his ability to work out and shortened the amount of recovery time and you get a guy who is stronger and can see the ball better. So, fly balls (instead of Strike Outs) to the warning track are now going into McCovey Cove.

A better batting eye means more Walks and those enhanced Home Runs means more pitchers (and Managers) not wanting to pitch to Bonds, therfor, more Int BB's.

I will (grudgingly) give Bonds 500 Home Runs, 400 Stolen Bases, 2,000 Hits and 1,500 RBI. Those are Hall of Fame numbers. However, even those might be tainted because he could have been abusing pharmaceuticals before 1998.

The bottom line is, he IS NOT as great as his numbers look. If he had not taken drugs, gotten bigger, stronger and had improved eyesight, his numbers would be nowhere near what they are now. Heck, without the drug enhancement, Bonds could have become what Ken Griffey Jr is now, a broken down has been who is a shade of his former self (and I am a Reds fan).

As far as being a dick, he either inherited or learned that from his father.

Another thing about Bonds, a few years ago he had that news conference with his kid and said something like, "what do you want me to do, jump off a building?" and then went on to whine about taking his money away and "taking food out of my kid's mouths" yada yada yada. No Barry, you buying condos in Vegas for your mistress is taking money away from your kids and food out of their mouths.

The last thing that will happen (and he has already started down this path) is if he is indicted, found guilty and imprisoned or if he is kicked out of baseball before breaking Aaron's record, he will use the race card and deflect all responsibility away from himself.

Poor Barry will be the victim. It wasn't his fault women liked him. So much so, that he went to bed with them. It wasn't his fault his income wasn't reported to the IRS. It wasn't his fault the "flaxseed oil" was steroids, HGH or whatever else he ingested. It is all a big conspiracy by the rest of humanity to get poor little Bearwy Bonds.

This is my last post about Bonds because just thinking about him (and all of the people he has screwed over) makes my blood pressure rise.

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Posted By: Judge Dred (Fred)

David,

I am like Barry Bonds. I too am guilty of ingesting ingredients to improve my visual accuity. In fact it's the same ingredient that makes me want to be like Barry and cheat on my wife. Consuming this ingredient also gives me increased energy to chase women to whom I'm not married. It makes truly plain women LOOK incredible (thus enhancing my visual accuity to see more than others). It hasn't made me cheat on my taxes yet, but if I have enough of it I just might try it.

BEER - lots of it. Go to a bar and around 1AM all the women look beautiful and I have the feeling of invincibility and charisma which allows me to pursue these other women that aren't my wife. I don't know what it is about BEER that has this affect on me.


Art,

You are right, Bonds has great presence at the plate and he does have a great batters eye. He's learned the strike zone and he uses it to his advantage. I would guess that a lot of umpires probably give him the extra few inches on a smaller strike zone that makes the difference between a good hitter and a great hitter. Not many players are as disciplined.

Edited to add - July 29, 2007....my guess. Hopefully he breaks a leg in May or June.... that's right I'm a mean and nasty person...

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Posted By: joe brennan

Wow. Amazing the opinions when 1 name is mentioned. No one makes it in the HOF because they are Saints, they make it in because they are great Baseball players. So Bond off field persona has nothing to do with HOF worthy or not. Babe Ruth was far from a Saint and no one questions his off field antics. Cabby's carrying Ruth used to stop at 2 or 3 womens houses before a game. Did the subject of Ruth cheating on his wife stop him from the HOF? I can name dozens of ball players that are not nice people but the are in. Wasn't Mantle greatest memory at a ball park preformed before a game behind the bleachers? Not quite Saintly. I'm not a Bonds fan, but he's getting the record and he's getting in. McGuire and Sosa too.

In Rememberance of James W. Brennan Sr. 1924-1982. Dad, thanks for everything you did for me.

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Posted By: David Smith

I said I wasn't going to post anymore about this subject but I just have to.

Joe, my point about Bonds was that he is an all-around cheat. Women, taxes, baseball.... Just as long as Barry is right, successful and the center of attention, it doesn't matter to him. But just wait until when things start crumbling, it wont be Barry's problem it is going to be somebody else's fault.

When mentioning Ruth, Mantle, Berra, Billy Martin and other known partiers, it is a wonder they accomplished the things they did. Their lack of off season conditioning combined with their drinking, smoking, poor eating habits and womenizing during the season means they were out of shape, tired and often times hung over. Take those things away and they not only might have put up better stats during the time they played but they might also have played longer, thus making Bonds "accomplishments" not look so great.

What those guys ingested HURT their careers. What Barry ingested HELPED his.


As far as Bonds, McGwire, Sosa, Palmiero et al, just ask Frank Robinson what he thinks of most of these "Home Run hitters" of the last 20 years....


David

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Posted By: Dan Koteles

he was on the roids for 3 yrs , and it added 35 extra hr's,do you honestly think that he would quit with his ego had he not SUPPOSEDLY took the roids?

leave him be, unless he plays 5 more years, Alex Rodriguez is going to surpass him ,so what is the difference.

Roids didnt teach him how to drive the ball ,this man has a swing!
Chokes up on the bat a little and uses the barrel like no other, roids doesnt teach that. I suppose theory has it that roids make a person drive the ball 80 ft farther ?...seems like it would slow the bat speed down with the extra weight. He doesnt loop his swing. All this does is just gives society extra stuff to bitch about....typical today.

Some of you really do not know just how hard it is to hit a baseball.

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Posted By: E, Daniel

"Leave him be"?

Just wondering Dan, are you his godfather?
Oh yeh, I forgot, I haven't heard Mays stick up too often through the years for the narcissist punk 'playa' that is Barry Bonds....

Well. Good luck if he's a character you'd like kids to admire, and admire they will if the trail of personal refuse that is his contribution to the game is left un-challenged.

It's going to take 20 years and an entire new generation who INSIST THEMSELVES on testing ALL PLAYERS 6-12 a year using the latest lab procedures, and punishment that registers a two-time lier lost to the game, for MLB to mean something really special again.

So, "thanks" to all those who've sullied the game so incredibly, and I'll include all those who don't have the guts to out the cheats and money grubbing arrogant no-bodies who don't care diddly squat about the game, because of some dumbass insecurity and me first mentality they like to snickeringly refer to as a players code.

But then, ask me what I really think of athletes like Barry Bonds

Daniel


Ps. Other codes may be just as dirty but at least those who preside over their governing call a thug a thug, and a cheat nothing more than a sissy.
Give me the violent men in shoulder pads anyday. At least they know how lucky they are for most would be zeroes in society without the game they play.

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Posted By: Al C.risafulli

King Kelly jumped out from the bench and inserted himself into a game so he could catch a foul popup.

John McGraw would hold onto the belt buckle of a tagging baserunner at third, to slow him up.

Willie Keeler used to hide baseballs in the tall grass in right field. When an opposing player hit a ball over his head, Keeler would throw in one of the balls hidden in the grass.

The 1894 Orioles would run directly across the diamond from first to third while the umpire wasn't looking. They also angled the baselines, grew the infield grass long and kept the dirt around the plate hard, to promote infield hits. Lots of teams have done this since.

Eddie Roush held out for more money.

Lots of players - including Walter Johnson, for a few days - broke their contracts and jumped to the Federal League for more money.

Many teams stole signs by positioning a man with binoculars in the scoreboard.

Joe D and Lou Gehrig both held out for bigger contracts.

Whitey Ford scuffed baseballs.

So did Roy Campanella.

Tom House admitted to taking steroids in the 1960s, and said that LOTS of pitchers took them.

Graig Nettles got caught with superballs in his bat in 1974.

Gaylord Perry defaced baseballs.

So did Joe Niekro.

So did Don Sutton.

Amphetamine use was rampant in clubhouses in the late 50s through the 80s.

Cocaine use was rampant among players in the 80s.

Tim Raines used to slide head-first so as not to break the vial of cocaine he kept in his back pocket.

Howard Johnson corked his bat.

Mike Scott scuffed baseballs.

Albert Belle corked his bat.

Lenny Dykstra took steroids.

Jason Grimsley took HGH.

Mark McGwire took Androstendione.

Jason Giambi injected steroids into himself on the team plane.



They've been cheating and money-grubbing in baseball for as long as winning has been important. Barry Bonds doesn't deserve any different treatment than anyone else. If he gets caught and tests positive, he should be suspended. If he doesn't, that's life.

-Al

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Posted By: E, Daniel

You obviously haven't seen the game and its players change much over the last 30 years, with regards to the game itself or their relationships with the public. Same ole same ole for you. Maybe just a big media concoction, ahh, I'd love some conspiracy in there too.

I'm glad you're happy with today's mugs. There's maybe a dozen across the leagues I have much to any respect for.
I don't think they carry the collective jock of the players who came before them... in terms of what they give to the game versus what they take out. They have zero loyalty to the fans, zero loyalty to eachother, and not much loyalty to the game. There's not a Ted Williams or Roberto Clemente amongst them.

But I'm glad for you that you don't see it that way. I'm sure you're able to enjoy the game a whole lot more than I am.


Daniel

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Posted By: Al C.risafulli

What loyalty did Ted Williams have to the fans? Ted Williams HATED the fans.

I get your point, though.

It just bugs me that baseball seems to be the only major sport where the most knowledgeable fans refuse to acknowledge the greatness of the current players. Ask fans of the other major sports who the greatest players were, you'll hear names like Jordan, Gretzky, and Montana among those names. Ask baseball fans and you'll typically not hear Barry Bonds or Alex Rodriguez, great as those two players are.

I don't get it.

To me, the major change in the game happened in 1947. Aside from that, it's been mostly tweaks. That's what makes the game so great in my eyes - that you can trace John McGraw to Casey Stengel to Billy Martin to Lou Piniella.

I can't wait til August 4, for all those reasons. It will be another day when another great player has another major achievement.

And, as someone else mentioned, a few years later A-Rod will break it again anyway.

-Al

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

Ted Williams blamed the media for his strained relationship with the fans. He eventually made peace with the Boston fans. That was much more of a two way street. It's Barry Bonds who owes an apology to baseball fans....I won't hold my breath.

As far as baseball fans not really acknowlidging today's players I think that's pretty much the way it has always been. Babe Ruth, Lou Gehrig, Joe DiMaggio, Williams, Mays, Aaron...well not many of today's players can live up to those names. When you bring up names like Michael Jordan who else compares? Gretzky shattered records by more than double.

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Posted By: Silver King

It's all bad for the game. Bonds was a great player but tarnished his reputation. McGwire was great, tarnished his reputation. Pete Rose was great, tarnished his reputation. None of these guys should be in the hall of fame. They all had the chance but let addictions get in the way. Remove them all from the record books and reestablish Roger Maris as the home run leader. Bonds should retire to avoid the asterisks that will be placed next to his name if he breaks the record. Play by the rules and become a role model.

robert shaw

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Posted By: peter chao

Silver,

You've just opened up another can of worms. You guys that want to hang Barry. If Barry breaks Hank's record, would you want Bud Selig to make an asterisk next to the record. If you do that you would have to put an asterisk after half the MVP winners in the last 10 years.

Almost everybody agrees that it was a bad idea to put an asterisk after Roger Maris' record. Would you want to do the same to Barry.

Peter

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Posted By: peter chao

Guys,

Barry hits 2 homers during last preseason game. With other ballplayers it means absolutely nothing, with Barry though it's significant because of health concerns in the last couple of seasons. Furthermore, he hits pitchers during the season just like as if it were spring training.

Peter

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Posted By: T E

Bonds is a total jerk.

That said, it is his record. Pete Rose owns the record for hits lifetime. That doesn't put him near Ty Cobb.

It is a different era. Genie is out of the bottle, along with the steroids, HGH, etc. 500 home runs means doodley these days. The game is what it is. I enjoy it to an extent.

Here is a picture of Mr. Bonds taken with a special infra-red lense in the dark.

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Posted By: jay behrens

On the professional level, everyone cheats. Hell, even down to the little leagues, lots of people cheat. They do what they need to in order to keep that edge that will allow them to stay in the top league. So get over the fact that Bonds "cheated".

He didn't do this in a vacuum. Pretty much the rest of the league was/is juiced too. If juicing was the sole reason for his staggering numbers, then we should have seen a bunch of other players putting up similar numbers. No one has come close to what he has done.

Blame steroids all you want, but pretty much everyone was/is juiced, so it's basically a level playing field for everyone.

And I still say Clemens is just as juiced up as Bonds, but since he's white and likable, he gets a pass.

Jay

I love pinatas. You get to beat the crap of something and get rewarded with candy.

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Posted By: bcornell

Jay -

You've issued more apologies in the last five years for Barry Bonds than even Barry himself, if that's possible. I'm convinced that unless he shoots up steroids in front of you, burns an American flag, takes candy from babies, and pledges allegiance to France that you're going to say he's good for baseball. The guy's an unparalleled jerk and, by the way, the Giants stink.

Back to cards...

Bill

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Posted By: Ken McMillan

We all know Sammy Sosa was a steroid user also and look what happened after he stopped taking them. He sucked, pissed the fans off, and became a skinny little white Guy Where is Sammy now????? Oh I forgot the Rangers are hiding him in the outfield!!!!

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Posted By: T E

I don't think the problem is that Bonds cheats, or that he is black. He is just a creep. A white Barry Bonds would be no more palatable than a black Barry Bonds.

Hank Aaron dealt with a lot more racial crap than Bonds could dream of. Bonds is just a nasty arrogant ugly person who is about to break an iconic record, the result of which will be that the record will no longer be iconic.

We do get to choose our icons.

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Posted By: peter chao

Guys,

Any thoughts on whether Bud Selig should put an asterisk next to home run record. Assuming that Bonds breaks it.

Peter

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Posted By: Al C.risafulli

Why would they put an asterisk next to his name? Has he ever failed a steroids test or been disciplined by Major League Baseball for doing anything wrong?

-Al

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Posted By: peter chao

Al,

Well with Roger Maris they put the asterisk in there simply because 61 home runs were hit during a longer season. Mr. Selig could simply say that the asterisk for Bonds is because there is suspicion that some of the home runs were because of steroids.

Peter

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Posted By: Neal Kane

first, I hope Barry breaks a leg or two (or three, who knows what all that crap really does to you) before he breaks Aarons mark. I hate him. Really.

second, Bonds was well on his way to being listed as an All Time Great. He never needed to enhance his game and hat size subsequently.

third, I agree with Al about how many baseball fans do not recognize todays players as better than MANY older players. With Ruth being the lone exception, my "all time" team would not include anyone prior to Jackie's time. That said, here it is ....

C - Bench
1B - Pujols (yes, that is correct)
2B - Rose (had to put him somewhere)
SS - Arod
3B - Schmidt
OF - Ruth, Mays, Bonds, Aaron, and Williams
P - Clemens, Carlton, Koufax, Spahn and Gibson

just my opinion, as baseball didn't really become AMERICAS SPORT until Jackie.

fourth, I can't stand Bonds

fifth, I have no idea how anyone could seriously root for him

sixth, I know he won't break it in Philly. His Potato Head may become french fries

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Posted By: Steve f

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Posted By: Glyn parson

edited to say never mind the post was too wordy

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Posted By: peter chao

Yahoo's Jeff Passan has predicted Bonds will pass Aaron on Aug. 19, 2007.

Peter

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Posted By: Rob

I can't stand bonds either, but I think MOST of MLB players were taking 'roids at the same time Bonds was. His fault is that he got caught. I wouldn't put an asterisk next to his name. I think in 30 years he'll be a hero cuz the new generation won't know how unlikable he is.

My Prediction: Bonds will break the record the last weekend in July.

Neal, for my all time list, I think I'd alter yours slightly
C - Yogi
1B - Pujols/Gehrig (i'm torn)
2B - Jackie
SS - Wagner
3B - Arod
OF - Babe, Mays, Cobb, Bonds, Williams (can i have five?)
SPs - Paige, Clemens, Feller, Ryan, Koufax
Closer - Mariano Rivera

of course my list is easily subject to change by persuasion


edited to answer thread's main question

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Posted By: peter chao

Rob,

The point you miss is that B. Bonds hasn't been caught, yet. The only reason for MLB to put an asterisk next to his name would be to make it clear that MLB does not support the use of steroids by major league players.

Peter

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Posted By: jay behrens

Let me make something clear, I am NOT an apologist for Bonds. What I am, is tired of the hypocrisy surrounding Bonds. People say he cheated. As has been pointed out, cheating has gone since the inception of the game. Get over it. I loved the Jax comparison. He did something far worse, took money to throw World Series games, yet most of you revere him as some sort of god.

I'll take a player that is trying to make himself better over a player that is throwing games. At least we know the games with the guys cheating to make themselves better are on the up and up.

I have no illusions about whether or not Bonds used performance enhancing drugs. He did, along with most of baseball, including Roger Clemens. The guy is a generally miserable person who almost no one likes. So what. I don't watch baseball, or any other sport for matter, for the athlete's personality. I watch sports to see these people perform.

Whether you like the guy or not, you cannot take away the accomplishments that he has. The playing field was as level as it could since Bonds was not the only one using enhancers. Everyone, including pitchers, was using.

Bonds is single greatest player any of us has had the luck to watch.

Yes, Bonds is a miserable, detestable person. Yes, Bonds used enhancers. So did everyone else, but no one else put the numbers that he did, so sit back, relax, and enjoy the show. You may never seen another hitter as good as Bonds for the rest of your life.

Jay

I love pinatas. You get to beat the crap of something and get rewarded with candy.

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Posted By: Steve f

He alone created a negative role model for the kids, all for the sake of his massive ego.

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Posted By: peter chao

Steve F,

I love that bobble head you have of Barry, but give him a break, he isn't responsible for the entire "steroid era."

Peter

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Posted By: E, Daniel

"Everyone, including pitchers, was using".
"Yes, Bonds used enhancers. So did everyone else,....."

How do you know this to be so unequivocally true about all major league players? For me it's alot like saying - because one man rapes, all men have a rapist within, or if one woman lies - there's no trusting women or their intentions.
Just because a giant egomaniac whose self interest, not the team winning, we're not talking winning here, or losing, because improving one's own abilities clearly does not translate to creating a winning team, just a pure unaldalterated 'its all about me' guy doing ANYTHING to have a chance to be better than his competitors, to cheat them out of their chance at being better than him on any particular day or singular great effort in their careers - how does that translate to all players were juicing? And he does this not to get over an injury, or over one summer, or one season of games, but year after year of games - not throwing A game or A series like Joe J, but year after year after year.......

Seriously interested in your thoughts.


Daniel

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Posted By: MikeW

Where does it say we have to celebrate record breakers?

- although it is usually fun and exciting.

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Posted By: Joann

I kind of hate to admit this, but here goes.

I really couldn't care less if he used steroids or not. If Barry Bonds got on TV today and said "Yep. Did it. Used a lot." it wouldn't make any difference to me one way or another. I know I'm missing something here b/c I'm way out of sync with almost the rest of the world, but if I knew for sure he did them (and I think I do) it really wouldn't bother me at all.

Not because everyone was doing it. Not because steroids don't help eye-hand coordination. Not because I think he's getting any kind of a raw deal. Just because the issue is kind of flat with me. It just doesn't bother me, and I'm not sure why it doesn't. I wouldn't give it a second thought except I can see that everyone else is so enraged by it that I wonder why the issue doesn't resonate with me at all, and what I'm missing. I really don't care if anyone used steroids.

With Bonds, it is amazing to watch some of the things he's done. Sometimes he only sees one strike in a game and hits it out.

I just got tickets to see the Giants play in Milwaukee July 22, and am excited to go. I don't think he'll break the record that soon - heck I'm not even sure he'll play. But it'd be cool if he played, cooler if he hit one out, and coolest if it were even close to the record.

I really want him to break the record. Maybe it's because for some reason - no reason in particular - I never really cared for Hank Aaron.

OK. I know I'm in for it after this post.

Joann

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Posted By: E, Daniel

just wondering Joanne, did you similarly find it 'amazing' to watch Ben Johnson run after he was shown to be using steroids?
What about weightlifters who are continually banned after being outed? Does it seem 'quite' as amazing as over 500 pounds get pushed skywards?
How about the San Diego Chargers Shawn Merriman, who plays like a nutcase and is the best case of controlled roid rage I've ever seen..? Do you like his style?

I'm going to guess, but perhaps with Bonds its because the physique is nicely draped in loose uniform, and swinging a bat on the perfect plane to hit a ball appears a more evolved and 'pretty' motion'. Not requiring pure strength as much as pure timing and eagle eye.
Because, to be honest, I don't get your apathy either. Very respectfully.

All I know is that if my kid were trying to make a ball club, and he was good enough in natural gifts but didn't 'play the game' the pros maybe did to be a rock star, I sure would be bummed for him to be considered a lesser player. Me, I'd prefer he became a doctor, or an author, or......


Daniel

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Posted By: David Smith

Jay,

I don't think "all" Major League players were on steroids. I believe I remember a few years ago a number of Chicago White Sox pitchers went public and said they would LOVE to be tested because they had nothing to hide and wanted to root out those who did cheat. That idea was somehow pushed to the side. By who, I don't know, but somebody didn't like it. Maybe it was the Players Association.


David