T213 type 1 Collectors out there?

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Posted By: Brian Weisner

Hi Frank,
I have posted the article about the formation of The American Lithograph Company on here several times. I will see if I can find my copy of the article, but basically Duke helped Knapp consolidate the major lithographers into one group, and he was not only a silent partner, but the major customer.
Be well Brian




Here is the link:
http://www.spoonercentral.com/knapp/ALCO.html

[Archive]

Posted By: Frank Wakefield

Thank you, Brian.

Now let me ask about the packaging. I understand that American Beauty packages were more slender than Piedmont and the rest, hence the second trimming of the cards (seems to me that ABs were cut twice, once like regular cards, maybe by machine or at least with preset jigs, then cut again by hand to shave a bit off of one edge). But were Coupon packages of thinner paper, so they needed a less stiff card insert so it would not tear through the paper package?

[Archive]

Posted By: Brian Weisner

Hi Frank,
You may want to check with Jon Canfield, as he has a picture of a Coupon pack in his book from Al Shaw. The pack does look like it might be more of a soft version versus the harder slide shell, but it's tough to tell from a scan.
I think you can make as many arguments for the T213-1's being part of the T206 run as you can against, so I guess we will never know.

Be well Brian

It is interesting that even after the break up of the ATC in 1911 that Liggett & Myers continued to include baseball cards as premiums in many of there brands.
Fatima
Coupon
Recruit
Piedmont

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Posted By: Joe D.

Frank,

Your question about the packaging and comparison to AB are exactly the reasons why the thinner stock does not (by itself) lead me to exclude these cards from the T206 designation.

Just like AB needed narrower.... Coupon packaging may have needed thinner.


In case anyone is unsure - it is very easy to load up different paper stocks for the same press run. My shop does it on occasion when a customer asks for it (e.g. a thin version of a brochure for a bill stuffer, and a thicker one for a sturdy handout - all done at one time).

So - these cards could very well have been printed during a 'T206' press run. The exact same ink / machine / pressman / during the very same pressrun that day.



edit: grammar

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Posted By: fkw

Joe, I know what you mean, but...
There is a big difference though. The AB cards are at least 1/8" narrower but a thinner stock card will maybe be 1/64" thinner if that. Im sure the package could handle a thicker card stock. Its not that much thicker.

I believe part of the reasoning for the category Burdick used is because the other 2 Coupon sets are so different and needed a new ACC# why not just include the type 1 cards in the T213 with the other 2. It makes more sense to keep all 3 sets under one number, not split the same brand into to T213 and T206. Same with the T215 Red Cross type 1 cards that are identical to T206, keep them with the blue caption Red Cross under the same ACC#.

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Posted By: Joe D.

"Joe, I know what you mean, but...
There is a big difference though. The AB cards are at least 1/8" narrower but a thinner stock card will maybe be 1/64" thinner if that. Im sure the package could handle a thicker card stock. Its not that much thicker."


I am not so sure the coupon package could handle a thicker card stock... or that the people who made that decision thought it could.


I think it is reasonable to assume that the length, width, height, shape, thickness of any vintage card was directly related to the construction of the packaging they were placed into.

Basically - there is a reason why those cards were thin (regardless of an ACC designation) - and I think it is likely the packaging had something to do with it.

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Posted By: Eric B

I think someone should redo the ACC numbers for T206 starting with T206-1 being Piedmont, T206-2 being Old Mill, etc......ending with T206-14 being Coupon, T206-15 being Red Cross, and T206-16 being Ty Cobb (set of 1).

That would shake up the Registry

Seriously, think about what you would do? You can't collect all 16 series now. So the trading, selling, and buying frenzy would be fun to watch. I think prices would nearly double immediately.