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#101
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I feel much more strongly about the card doctors who will never face justice than about whether Mastro gets a few extra months or not. To me, the damage they have inflicted, and continue to inflict, is much more significant than Mastro and all the other houses running people up. I don't condone it, and yes it sucks and the guilty should be punished, but to fixate on that to the exclusion of a worse problem is to my mind myopic.
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 06-30-2015 at 07:44 PM. |
#102
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Peter, you've contrarianed yourself into a pretzel.
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http://www.flickr.com/photos/calvindog/sets |
#103
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Well you set an example for me, Jeff.
Edited to add
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My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 06-30-2015 at 07:47 PM. |
#104
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Yeah, I sure have. Keep rubbing your temples and explaining how you're not affected by Mastro's massive fraud. Or maybe you just don't want to write a letter to the court because you helped a friend shill some of his Mastro lots?
Edited to add
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http://www.flickr.com/photos/calvindog/sets Last edited by calvindog; 06-30-2015 at 07:49 PM. |
#105
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I never claimed to be unaffected, you are mischaracterizing my words. I said I am not sure enough that I have been affected to write the equivalent of a victim impact statement. There is a difference, no?
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. |
#106
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Well...it seems to me that you have to start somewhere...and the lighter the sentence Mastro gets...the lighter the sentence/fine the card doctor will get when he/she is brought to justice.
But the card doctor will never get in trouble...for what they do in and of itself is not against the law...but providing a venue to distribute these known...altered cards is! |
#107
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The letter to the court is not a victim impact statement -- it is a letter discussing Mastro's character and the impact he has had on the hobby. It is not a victim impact statement.
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http://www.flickr.com/photos/calvindog/sets |
#108
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i didn't get a dinner or a gift, and i bidded and won a few 5figs cards in mastro throughout the years...gonna cover my bases and write that letter. dude was always too upbeat for my taste, kinda creepy.
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#109
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The ones I read seemed to be, for the most part anyhow. So I guess that is how I had thought about them. I had not thought the Court would be interested in more general observations about the hobby.
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. |
#110
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What if he sends you an Andre Ethier rookie card in PSA 7? Can you be bought?
__________________
http://www.flickr.com/photos/calvindog/sets Last edited by calvindog; 06-30-2015 at 08:24 PM. |
#111
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probably a smart thing to stay away from the mastro/psa or allen/psa combo at this point.
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#112
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Quote:
If the conduct is bad, I really don't worry that much about damages. It's kind of like pleading punis. I'm not necessarily a huge fan of that because it causes you extra work and if the jury is mad enough to award them, I have always believed that they will find a place to stick them even if you don't ask for them. I'd throw out the number paid for whatever items the client bought, maybe show what they had sold for before, and fight about whether I had to quantify the non-economic stuff. I have only lost that once, and even then the judge said the number wouldn't come in when we tried the case. It settled, so I don't know if the judge would have stuck to his guns. Last edited by Kenny Cole; 06-30-2015 at 09:00 PM. |
#113
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Oh you would get discovery of course, it was just a hypothetical about the current state of play and whether it's enough to conclude one was defrauded. I guess with my defense bias I think it's a bit speculative based on the current record but you make a good argument, as always.
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 06-30-2015 at 09:00 PM. |
#114
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This is some seriously sleazy stuff to read.....to me 10 years sound about right.
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T206 gallery Last edited by atx840; 06-30-2015 at 09:34 PM. |
#115
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wow, Chris...crazy!!!! My letter went out in the mail today...I am surprised at the general lack of apathy regarding this and cleaning up this hobby in general.
It's very sad to me! Sad indeed! |
#116
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Yes, the email to the consignor about hitting it one more time and letting it go has been discussed here before.
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. |
#117
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You mean general apathy, not lack of apathy. Maybe if Mastro had overcharged someone a dollar for shipping there would be more interest here.
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http://www.flickr.com/photos/calvindog/sets |
#118
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Sounds like someone needs a free dinner at the National to get his mind right. Go ahead, order the creme brulee.
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#119
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Or post #1,000,000 about a Wagner reprint on ebay.
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. |
#120
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whatever!!!
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#121
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Letter sent
Thanks for bringing it to light. Sent my letter off today.
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#122
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Quote:
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#123
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And yet collectors are still willing to pay astronomical amounts of money for high grade cards based solely on the assessment of the TPG. Why is that?
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#124
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Quote:
The grading companies give the buyer a false sence of security that their card in not altered/counterfiet. That is if the slab is even real and not counterfiet. JMHO |
#125
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Some are naïve, others willfully blind.
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. |
#126
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Jeff- I'm sorry I haven't been following this more closely but I've taken a brief hiatus from the Board. Has the Pre-Sentence Screening Report come back in his case but the US Attorney is offering a 5k so a downward variance/departure can be obtained and he is recommending 30 months? As we both know, it is still up to the judge whether or not the 5k for substantial assistance to the US Atty's office (i.e. "rolling over" and "ratting") will be accepted. It just seems like 30 months for the number of people allegedly scammed (including, possible, your's truly because I bid on a number of card lots in his auctions over the years) is awfully light. Just saying...
Bob Last edited by tbob; 07-01-2015 at 03:40 PM. |
#127
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Quote:
His enablers will be doing a bit better.
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http://www.flickr.com/photos/calvindog/sets Last edited by calvindog; 07-01-2015 at 05:14 PM. |
#128
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Can he go back into the auction business or is he banned?
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#129
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There's nothing in his cooperation agreement which suggests he's not permitted back into the hobby.
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http://www.flickr.com/photos/calvindog/sets |
#130
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Leon, a mutual friend of ours who carries a gun asked me to post your comments about Mastro from October 2013:
"Even though I have considered Bill a hobby friend, and understand I was shill bid, I didn't have the amount of disrespect towards him which I do now, until I read his statement. That statement accepts no responsibility of his misdeeds. He caused his own problems, no one else. He really needs to accept responsibility for his actions. I find his statement disgusting. There were 2 letters? I can guarantee there will be at least 3 by the end of the day today." 21 months later we're still waiting for your letter.
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http://www.flickr.com/photos/calvindog/sets Last edited by calvindog; 07-11-2015 at 02:01 PM. |
#131
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I sent mine today.
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#132
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One would think he would move on; but then again it's what he knows and loves.
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. |
#133
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deleted
:-)
Last edited by 1880nonsports; 07-02-2015 at 10:20 PM. Reason: brevity |
#134
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I sent a letter to the judge last August. I sent another one yesterday. FWIW.
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#135
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I think the biggest crime for you is that no one has informed you to stop using a Windows machine and Internet Explorer. |
#136
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Old school and stubborn.
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. |
#137
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I've been away for the past week - so sorry joining in late.
My two cents is that there was likely a wide scale scheme to defraud for quite a long period of time in various capacities. The most egregious was knowingly selling fake memorabilia - such as the phony Elvis hair or the 1869 Redlegs baseball. Next, and nearly as egregious was selling doctored cards. And yes there was the shill bidding - which is fraud. To me, the selling of the fake and doctored items is the fraud that keeps on giving since those items will at some point and time will be or have been re-sold and this is the stuff that needs to be sought out and removed and the buyers need to be compensated. I'm not trying to minimize shill bidding, but it's obviously next to impossible to prove if all or most of the evidence has been destroyed and the damages amount to just some percentage of the item purchased (typically 10% to 30%).
__________________
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke "It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled." - Mark Twain |
#138
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Quote:
__________________
Leon Luckey Last edited by Leon; 07-05-2015 at 09:56 AM. |
#139
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Quote:
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 07-05-2015 at 12:45 PM. |
#140
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__________________
http://www.flickr.com/photos/calvindog/sets |
#141
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My hunch is they used house accounts to bid up lots to hidden reserves agreed to with consignors. Im sure that was common practice for Mastro and its employees was to give false promises or kickbacks to land high end consignments back in the day. Consignors I imagine, did not read the fine print or terms and conditions with the auction and took them for their word since they sell millions each year.
Back when Mastro was was the premire auction company, reserves were rarely seen or advertised. It was not "industry standards" As few auction companies just started out lots at higher amounts. Mastro liked to start out lots lower letting the "market set the price". I have won probally more than 100 lots between both Mastro and Legendary. I can only imagine who the under bidder was on all my lots won. I would think that former Mastro/Legendary consignors would be upset if they were told one thing and then it played out differently. Another form of fraud thats never discussed. I imagine that contracts disapeared too along with the bidding history is my guess. I will end this with a silver lining that no matter what I won, that chances are very good that my investment has risen in value. Look at how well the card market as a whole has done over the last 15 years. Im sure Ive been bumped or pushed higher by auctions houses, and it stinks to think about it... But, I was still willing to Bid the winning amount and when the card(s) came in, I was glad I did. Letter will be written soon even though my story has been told. |
#142
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Lichtman....party of one.....now seating......
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#143
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Quote:
Check me if I'm wrong, but "Hit it again?" was a question directly asked to YOU was it not? Is this letter going to be a positive one?
__________________
Looking for Nebraska Indians memorabilia, photos and postcards |
#144
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This post was with the bidder hat on.
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. |
#145
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According to the government, the indictment and Mastro, JC was a co-conspirator. Technically, I suppose he could also have been a victim on items he bid on. That being said, a letter from JC to the court about Mastro will probably be met with ridicule or stunned silence. Which is why so many hobby leaders and Net 54 senior members are silent when discussions of Mastro's fraud arise. A misspelled word in a post, a discussion about a dinner -- that they'll chime in on. Mastro fraud? Nope, they need to sit that one out in order to not take the chance of their involvement being exposed.
__________________
http://www.flickr.com/photos/calvindog/sets |
#146
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Most likely it was Doug trying to get the consigner to take less money than what the agreed upon reserve was!!! Mastro only got paid when stuff sold. Maybe the consigner said NO WAY and the card was returned to him. |
#147
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Quote:
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#148
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I'm just getting around to reading this thread. Disappointed and shocked not surprised by the justice system on this.
I could go on for hours about these guys Mastro, Allen etc. bottom line is they are crooks and con men. They may be like able crooks but still crooks. How pathetic to send gifts to key people. I would be insulted to get such a gift and I could never really enjoy it knowing it came at the expense of so many collectors. Let alone is nothing more than a shallow attempt to bribe away past deeds. Sorry not giving up my integrity or land for some shiny beads from a trickster. Better be one hell of gift these guys got. Leon as for you and your letter being public and Nash dragging or twisting who cares. The guy will be weaving stories and yarns till he drops dead. He tried that crap with me the best he could come up with was a picture and calling me a "Lifson fanboy" and using a calculator to add up my posted shared net54 REA winnings...and he even screwed that up. Bottom line if you're above board and have no hobby skeletons what could he possibly say or twist that's my view. At least Elkins was creative. To those who think why write a letter who cares, it's not gonna help. You're wrong. While Mastro, Allen and gang played their games we all paid the price. While you may not have been directly shilled or perhaps you were and don't know I can promise you one thing. If you collect today or have bought any item hobby related you were affected. By raising prices thru games such as shilling, fake sales etc. all prices in the hobby went up because of historical past sales which in effect were not real. That unfortunately for us all cost the items we collect to be more expensive. This is no different than some oil companies manipulating the cost of crude, or banking institutions messing with rates and loans. It all costs us more at the pump and our house values to be affected. So Bill if you're reading this please send me a gift so I can send back with a copy of my letter. You may feel bad you may not don't really care. You did the crime so pay up. But if I were you I wouldn't worry to much you have one thing going for you. Countless lazy, naive and not so honest collectors who will once again turn a blind eye and then piss and moan about it later. If you feel Bill is an ok guy you're either really naive or there's something else going on. That's my two cents. Cheers, John |
#149
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"Most likely"??? Do you have insider info?
__________________
Looking for Nebraska Indians memorabilia, photos and postcards |
#150
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I might have phrased it
don't you have inside information?
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