|
|
View Poll Results: Shound Barry Bonds and/or Roger Clemens be inducted into the HOF? | |||
Bonds - in | 78 | 50.00% | |
Bonds - OUT | 78 | 50.00% | |
Cemens - in | 76 | 48.72% | |
Clemens - OUT | 77 | 49.36% | |
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 156. You may not vote on this poll |
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#101
|
|||||
|
|||||
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
|
#102
|
|||
|
|||
Quote:
|
#103
|
|||
|
|||
If this is the best you can do I'll be quite happy with my reasoning abilities.
|
#104
|
||||
|
||||
To think I started this thread asking for a simple YES or NO response...
Fat Chance! -
__________________
. "A life is not important except in the impact it has on others lives" - Jackie Robinson “If you have a chance to make life better for others and fail to do so, you are wasting your time on this earth.”- Roberto Clemente |
#105
|
||||
|
||||
Double NO
__________________
Tim |
#106
|
|||
|
|||
Ck the latest results, can`t get much closer and yes, enjoying the debate.
__________________
H Murphy Collection https://www.flickr.com/photos/154296763@N05/ |
#107
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
|
#108
|
||||
|
||||
Wow, with my votes, it's 50/50 split down the middle on Bonds and Clemens.
I voted yes on both. Don't get me wrong. I hate cheating in the game I love. And both men cheated. Steroids have no place in baseball. But, not voting them in creates a maelstrom, of sorts. We know past generations of baseball players have used things that enhanced their play. Willie Mays spoke of "greenies". Are stimulants the same as steroids? No. But how do we draw the line? And, if we ban players from the Hall who used steroids, do we then have to go back and re-evaluate all the players before, and the evidence that they used things that gave them a competitive advantage? Because, that's what we're ultimately talking about, right? The sanctity of the game. We don't know for sure when they started using, do we? I've heard people point to when Bonds joined the Giants. Well, he was already well on his way to the Hall of Fame before he went to San Francisco. He had 50 WAR in seven years, and at age 28. Two MVP Awards, an MVP runner up, three Silver Slugger Awards, three Gold Gloves. Bonds had a 147 OPS +, 176 home runs, 251 stolen bases. His 162 game average over those last three years in Pittsburgh are nothing short of spectacular: .301 AVG, 113 runs, 36 doubles, 34 home runs, 122 RBI, 49 stolen bases, 120 walks. His slash line was .424/.566/.990. A 177 OPS + over that span. 26.7 WAR in three seasons. He had a 1.080 OPS the year before he became a Giant. My way of looking at it: the steroids prolonged his career, absolutely. But the guy was already playing at a level of the immortals. Clemens? By the start of his age 29 season, he'd won three Cy Young Awards, and an MVP. He'd led the league in FIP five of the last six seasons. Between 1986 and 1992 he had a 160 ERA +. Unless he started on the steroids early, which I don't think he did, Clemens was a sensational pitcher and Hall of Fame-worthy before he turned 30. Like Bonds, I think the drugs prolonged his career. Steroids don't make Hall of Famers out of average baseball players. You can either hit a curve ball, or you can't. You can either hit the corners, or you can't. The whole "vote them in, don't vote them in" is more about the stigma that attaches itself to the sport, and has a hell of a lot less to do with these individuals. If they get voted in, it somehow sullies the sport. But the all-time hit king is already excluded. The all-time home run king is, essentially, excluded. A seven-time Cy Young Award winner is being kept out. Five guys have hit sixty home runs in a season. Only Ruth is in Cooperstown. Put them in. Mention on their plaques that they used steroids, and let the individual determine how that changes their perception. But Bonds and Clemens are both arguably among the ten best players ever for their positions.
__________________
Building these sets: T206, 1953 Bowman Color, 1975 Topps. Great transactions with: piedmont150, Cardboard Junkie, z28jd, t206blogcom, tinkertoeverstochance, trobba, Texxxx, marcdelpercio, t206hound, zachs, tolstoi, IronHorse 2130, AndyG09, BBT206, jtschantz, lug-nut, leaflover, Abravefan11, mpemulis, btcarfagno, BlueSky, and Frankbmd. |
#109
|
|||
|
|||
Quote:
If you want to use a shoplifting comparison, then I would say it's like stealing a $.03 piece of bubble gum or a $1000 piece of jewelry. In my opinion, there's no difference. A thief is a thief. If you'll steal something little, you'll steal something big. The consequences may be different, but it's still stealing. Last edited by vintagetoppsguy; 01-08-2018 at 07:37 AM. |
#110
|
|||
|
|||
Bonds is now out. Now I'm in the majority.
|
#111
|
|||
|
|||
There it is again. The consequences of using a corked bat are you sit a few games and pay a fine. The consequences of using PEDs is you don't get into the HOF. I can't think of a more simplistic way of saying it. Your own argument is basically explaining why there's a difference, and why most voters clearly think one offense deserves a stiffer penalty than the other.
|
#112
|
|||
|
|||
It's a poor analogy. An appropriate analogy would be petty theft vs. armed robbery.
Last edited by packs; 01-08-2018 at 12:38 PM. |
#113
|
|||
|
|||
Quote:
I know the difference in the consequences, but I'm saying the consequences should not be different. You have guys, HOF pitchers like Perry and Ford, that pretty much admit to cheating their entire career. Do you really think it's fair that they get in the HOF and someone that used PEDs doesn't? |
#114
|
|||
|
|||
Quote:
|
#115
|
|||
|
|||
Quote:
Last edited by vintagetoppsguy; 01-08-2018 at 02:15 PM. |
#116
|
||||
|
||||
both should get. both were the best (among the best) of their era.
__________________
Successful transactions with: Drumback, Mart8081, Obcmac, Tonyo, markf31, gnaz01, rainier2004, EASE, Bobsbats, Craig M, TistaT202, Seiklis, Kenny Cole, T's please, Vic, marcdelpercio, poorlydrawncat, brianp-beme, mybuddyinc, Glchen, chernieto , old-baseball , Donscards, Centauri, AddieJoss, T2069bk,206fix, joe v, smokelessjoe, eggoman, botn, canjond Looking for T205's or anything Babe Ruth...email or PM me if you have any to sell. |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
PSA vs SGC Poll | Buythatcard | Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions | 16 | 05-19-2010 11:39 AM |
What would you do? - poll | Leon | Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions | 33 | 05-06-2010 06:30 PM |
NEW POLL! | Archive | Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions | 6 | 07-10-2008 03:02 PM |
New Poll | Archive | Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions | 54 | 12-21-2006 07:03 PM |
New Poll | Archive | Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions | 23 | 10-09-2005 07:30 AM |