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#201
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Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use
Posted By: Judge Dred (Fred)
Finally, Post 200!!! |
#202
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Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use
Posted By: Judge Dred (Fred)
Sorry about that, I just wanted to get that out of the way...
I'll tell it like it is though... he's certainly been a joy to watch for the past 5/6 years, more so than he ever was before that time. |
#203
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Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use
Posted By: jay behrens
Hey, no fair!!! I wanted post 200. I'm the one keeping it alive |
#204
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Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use
Posted By: warshawlaw
Steroids, HGH, LSD, crack, pot, whatever. Let's see what the human body can really do |
#205
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Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use
Posted By: Judge Dred (Fred)
Bonds on LSD... hmmm... that would be interesting... |
#206
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Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use
Posted By: Robert {Bigb13}
Since when is Barry Bonds part of the vintage world? Rob |
#207
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Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use
Posted By: Judge Dred (Fred)
Bonds will be "vintage" in about 50 years or so... as of now he's just a topic of discussion on the board. One of those OT threads that Leon allows every once in a while. Either that or Leon's been sleeping on the job again and we need to impeach him and rid ourselves of his dictorial ways. Only problem is that if he quit we couldn't get anyone else to do what he does for us... |
#208
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Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use
Posted By: Jason
As much as I hate to admit it I do agree with Jay on this subject. Bonds is just 100% pure talent and the best home run hitter of all time. I really doubt any kind of supplement whatever it is has much of an effect of how far the ball flies. The guy has an extremely disciplined eye and the quickest hands around. Put that together and you have a home run king. |
#209
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Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use
Posted By: jay behrens
Judge, don't worry, you will be attacked, and when you least expect it |
#210
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Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use
Posted By: identify7
Bonds has neither the most HRs per at bat, per month, per game, inning, nor lifetime records. The only thing which he has achieved is most HRs/season. This is hardly the basis for a credential such as |
#211
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Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use
Posted By: Jason
Then you name me 10 better sluggers. I will give you Ruth......give me 9 more. |
#212
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Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use
Posted By: davidcycleback
My last word(s) on the subject is the steroid era gives one greater appreceation for Ruth's and Aaron's career home run totals. Even with the steroids and monster single-seasons, Aaron's record has yet to be broken. That a modern player would require so much medical assistance and law breaking to pass Aaron's or Ruth's totals, says how great their career totals are. |
#213
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Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use
Posted By: Jason
Ruth, Bonds, Pujols, Aaron in that order. There are your top 4 power hitters. |
#214
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Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use
Posted By: Judge Dred (Fred)
I'd put Gehrig ahead of Bonds. He had five seasons with over 400 total bases and you have to figure if his life wasn't cut short he'd probably have over 600 life time homeruns. If that wasn't slugging then I don't know what is.... |
#215
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Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use
Posted By: Joe_G.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Barry-Bonds-integrity_W0QQitemZ8784000459QQcategoryZ25150QQssP ageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem |
#216
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Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use
Posted By: jay behrens
That's funny. Wish I had thought of it. I'm sure we will be seeing all kinds of similar auctions now. |
#217
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Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use
Posted By: identify7
I dunno Jason, do you really think Bonds has accomplished much? I think that he may, but time will tell. I remember Mantle sacrificing his career .300 BA in his quest to surpass Foxx in total HRs. What a futile effort! Mantle was no where near the slugger that the Beast was, unless Foxx had to hit lefty; and even then I am not sure. I wonder whether Bonds will make a similar sacrifice in his yet unidentified quests. He is a borderline .300 hitter now, and he just recently has been knocking on the door of the .600 sluggers club. |
#218
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Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use
Posted By: jay behrens
Uhg! How can you say Bonds and Mac are the same type of player? Mac was all or nothing, literally. Bonds could actually hit for average. And let's not forget the speed he used to have. Even Dave Kingman was a better all around hitter Mac. Kingman is proabably the closest comperable to Mac there is. |
#219
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Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use
Posted By: identify7
One way to rate a home run hitter is by how frequently he hits homeruns. Nobody has ever hit homeruns as frequently as McGwire, over his career. |
#220
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Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use
Posted By: howard
Jay, were you serious in comparing McGwire to Kingman? Big Mac's slugging % and OBP were both about 100 points higher than Kingmans. Even taking into account the different eras that is a huge difference. I would say that Harmon Killebrew is much more comparable to McGwire. |
#221
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Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use
Posted By: warshawlaw
Any list of top 3 sluggers missing Teddy Ballgame is just wrong. |
#222
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Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use
Posted By: jay behrens
I'll stand by Kingman being a much better comperable. Killer was capable of hitting some doubles and triples and stole the occasional base. Plus, he could play some defense. Kingman was pretty much an all or nothing hitter like Mac. |
#223
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Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use
Posted By: howard
Well, if you want to consider Killebrew's 19 to 12 advantage over Mac in SBs I guess you win that one. Of course, Mac was only caught 8 times to Killer's 18. They hit doubles and triples at about the same rate, which is to say almost never and if Killer was capable of playing a little D he sure did a good job of hiding it for 22 years. McGwire, on the other hand, actually won a gold glove. |
#224
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Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use
Posted By: jay behrens
Killer could actually play defense. He came up as a 2B, moved to 3B and then 1B. We all know that GG are rarely given to the true defensive wizrds. PLayers like Gary Pettis that didn't hit much are a rarity when comes to winning GGs. I watched Mac play in Oakland from 1987-90 and to say he was brutal at his position is kind. |
#225
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Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use
Posted By: identify7
Howard: Cravath being a right handed hitter really could not take as much advantage of the Bakers Bowl's short right field dimension (even 15' shorter than Yankee Stadium), as a lefty could. |
#226
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Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use
Posted By: howard
Good point Identify. I've always liked Cravath but Mantle has always been my favorite. I wonder if Mantle would have batted lefty all the time if he played in the Baker Bowl. |
#227
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Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use
Posted By: jay behrens
retrosheet should have the home road splits for Cravath so you can see how much he benefited from the Baker Bowl |
#228
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Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use
Posted By: identify7
Howard: I never liked Mantle. He always seemed to fail when the chips were down. |
#229
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Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use
Posted By: howard
It seems to me that when someone wants to criticize a player with impeccable stats they resort to things which are difficult to define such as clutch ability. Somehow or other the Yankees won year after year with Mantle as their best player and Ford as their best pitcher even though it "seemed" they only contributed when it didn't count. I assume you know the stats so I won't bother with them except for this: |
#230
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Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use
Posted By: Jason
Mantle is not even in the top 30 greatest players of all time. Maybe.......and I stress MAYBE in the top 50-100. |
#231
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Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use
Posted By: Brian
Jason, |
#232
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Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use
Posted By: Brian
<<"The reason we filed in the lawsuit in the simplest terms possible is to prevent the authors from promoting themselves and profiting from illegal conduct," Rains told The Associated Press on Thursday. |
#233
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Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use
Posted By: John Kal
I saw a good deal of Mantle live or on TV. Howard, there was a good deal of talk that Mantle was such a good right handed hitter that he might stop batting left handed. I don't know what the stats are but I remember he had greater power from the right side. When he came up, he was considered maybe the greatest prospect of all time; then he tripped over the sprinkler and tore up his knee which cost him some of his speed (in 1951?). Jason, his placement in the all-time list would be around #5. My top 10 list of non-pitchers: Ruth, Cobb, Wagner, Williams, Mantle, Mays, Joe D, Josh Gibson, Musial, Gehrig. I have a video of the '52 World Series and Mantle was very clutch: also, even his practice swings from the right side were one-of-a-kind powerful. No substances, just talent. |
#234
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Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use
Posted By: howard
Thanks, Jon. I could only find his lefty/righty splits from 1959 on but they do indicate that he was significantly better as a right handed hitter. His BA is much higher at .314 to .268. The HR rates are similar but I'd imagine that was due to the higher degree of difficulty for a righty power hitter in Yankee Stadium as compared to that for a lefty. |
#235
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Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use
Posted By: Jason
OK maybe I give you top 50, but he definitely was not in the top 30. He was definitely a great player but not one of the 30 best. I know a similar Icon today (Jeter). He was lucky enough to be on several WS teams so he had good timing. Obviously could not hit like Mantle, but I would say Jeter isnt in the top 30-50 best players today, just like Mantle is not in the top 30 of all time. |
#236
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Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use
Posted By: John Kal
Jason, how 'bout you give us your top 10 non-pitchers. |
#237
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Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use
Posted By: jay behrens
Players that I'd rank ahead of Mantle: Ruth, Aaron, Mays, Bonds, Hornsby, Williams, Musial, Cobb, Wagner, Speaker, Lajoie, Gehrig, Gibson and half a dozen or more NeLers, Delahanty, Brouthers, Foxx, Pujols. I'm real tempted to put Helton, Manny and Vlad on the list too. |
#238
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Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use
Posted By: jay behrens
Just read the article about Bonds lawsuit. I'm all for investigative journalism, but breaking the shouldn't be part of the investigation. Especially when what you are investigating is supposed to be illegal too. I know that leaking of sealed testimony is done all the time, but it's illegal for a reason and it's about time the people that ignore this are taken to task for it. |
#239
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Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use
Posted By: warshawlaw
seems to me that what Bonds should be pissed about is inaccurate facts, not how accurate facts came to light. He is trying to get a prior restraint on a publication--he will lose...badly. |
#240
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Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use
Posted By: jay behrens
No doubt, this lawsuit should have been brought immediately after the initial article was published. |
#241
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Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use
Posted By: Brian
Adam, |
#242
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Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use
Posted By: Jason
I dont have time to compile a complete list but a few are.....Ruth, Clemente, Bonds, Sosa, Pujols, Mays, Gibson, Guerrero, Palmeiro, Williams, Griffey, Aaron, Foxx, Wagner, Cobb,.....there is atleat half without really thinking about it. |
#243
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Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use
Posted By: jay behrens
Yuck!!! Palmiero?!?! Give me a break. A solid performer, but not a game changer. I hate Mantle, but even I don't dislike him that much to rate hium below Raffy. I'd probably put Mantle ahead of Jr too. If you keep coming up with more players like Palmiero, you may not convince too many people of your position. |
#244
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Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use
Posted By: Brian
"We are seeking to have the credibility and integrity of the grand jury proceeding restored," Bonds lawyer Alison Berry Wilkinson told the judge during a 40-minute hearing in San Francisco County Superior Court. |
#245
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Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use
Posted By: Jason
OK maybe Plameiro was not better but he was equal.......Jr. is better than Mick. |
#246
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Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use
Posted By: jay behrens
Palmiero is not the equal of Mantle in any way, shape form except that he may have as good or better counting stats only because his career lasted longer. Palmiero is a boarderline HOFer, Mantle is a no-brainer. |
#247
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Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use
Posted By: Anson
Clearly biased, but Harry Heilmann was a better hitter than Mantle IMHO. I would add Jax, Eddie Collins, Frank Robinson, and Banks to the list. |
#248
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Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use
Posted By: warshawlaw
BONDS' SUIT ON DECK |
#249
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Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use
Posted By: davidcyclebackl
For Bonds, this is a horrible lawsuit for several reasons. First, he and his |
#250
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Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use
Posted By: jay behrens
nice, a board member quoted in the article |
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