Reasons I hate card companies

[yanks12025]

Reason I hate card companies cutting bats up.

This card recently sold at auction for $1,845, advertised on the back as "Game used relic". I used to own this bat when it was full-size, it showed use(white marks and stuff) but Taube (PSA/DNA) determined the use wasn't from game use. I eventually sold it to an employee of memory lane who later sold it at their auction as game issued.

I asked leaf why it is advertised as game used when the bat didnt show any game use. They told me it came with an LOA for game use but wouldn't provide me with a copy because they dont do that if people ask. They later told me they bought the bat thru Goldin, I searched Goldin and searched tons of auctions and could find no record of it being sold since it sold in Memory lane many years ago. They also said it did come with an LOA from Mears, so i asked Troy if they authenticated it but they couldn't help without the hologram number.

So it just sucks that this bat is probably only game issued, yet the card companies say used.

And it also sucks that I call out this company questioning their product and they won't provide the LOA to back up said item. It sucks these items getting destroyed, at least it wasn't a Mantle bat that showed all his traits and a prime example of his bats.

[bnorth]

To me it is more amazing they didn't use a store model to cut up and call it game used. After all it could have been used by some random kid in a "game".

[perezfan]

Yeah... I'd actually be shocked if they'd mutilate and cut up a verified "Gamer". Especially when it's so much more profitable to source a bat like this. These companies selling card relics are just one tick below the TPGs in terms of half-truths, sleaze and corruption.

[HRBAKER]

Do folks really believe that these cards contain "game used" relics just because they say they do. Quite a leap of faith.

[icollectDCsports]

Originally Posted by HRBAKER

Do folks really believe that these cards contain "game used" relics just because they say they do. Quite a leap of faith.

Agree. Sad that people collect this stuff.

[Topnotchsy]

Originally Posted by HRBAKER

Do folks really believe that these cards contain "game used" relics just because they say they do. Quite a leap of faith.

There's quite a bit of evidence that the card companies have cut up some pretty historic pieces to make the Game-Used cards including (famously) a Ruth jersey that Donruss purchased in the early 2000's that got a lot of attention. There are many other examples of items that can be identified and tracked. (I believe they cut up Jackie Robinson's Barnstorming jersey from 1945 or 1946 when he was with the KC Royals barnstorming team under Chet Brewer.

For modern items they are very active on MLB auctions buying up pieces.

While I am sure there are questionable items in cards, and the move towards more vague language on the cards describing the usage leaves more room for flexibility, it seems pretty clear that a ton of significant, historic items were cut up.

While I think they are using items that are associated with the players (although at times I don't think they are transparent on what is game-used and what was used in Old Timer's Games etc., I think it's safe to say they've cut up a lot of things that many hobbyists wish were still whole (though some would argue it allowed many more collectors a chance at a piece of history)

[GaryPassamonte]

Destroying history is unconscionable. I make it a policy never to throw stones at others unless it is face to face, but I will make an exception in this case. These companies are soulless scum. How would the public feel if a great painting was destroyed in a similar fashion? Despicable.

[CobbSpikedMe]

I have no problem with them cutting up jerseys of modern players who use a new jersey every game so they can sell off the used ones for this purpose. I don't like cutting up historical items however. I enjoy collecting the jersey/bat cards of the guys I liked growing up and some of the newer guys. I just like the look of the cards with the swatch of jersey or bat embedded in them.

There is also a big move these days to use jerseys that were "worn by the player at an event" meaning they put on the jersey for a photo shoot and then they cut up that jersey saying he wore it. Total crap of an item in my opinion.

Andy

[doug.goodman]

Originally Posted by yanks12025

So it just sucks that this bat is probably only game issued, yet the card companies say used.

That's not exactly what bothers me about this card...

[todeen]

I don't buy relic cards anymore. I look for straight auto cards without the relic because the relic doesn't even have to be from the player on the card. No reason to invest for something pointless. However, those late 90s early 2000s relics are legit. I have a piece of Jackie Robinson pants from the Fleer Traditions Negro Leagues set.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by todeen

I don't buy relic cards anymore. I look for straight auto cards without the relic because the relic doesn't even have to be from the player on the card. No reason to invest for something pointless. However, those late 90s early 2000s relics are legit. I have a piece of Jackie Robinson pants from the Fleer Traditions Negro Leagues set.

Not a comment on those cards because i know nothing abut them. I do like how whatever we as collectors actually collect. We think is real and unaltered but everything else can be fake/altered.

[Topnotchsy]

Originally Posted by todeen

I don't buy relic cards anymore. I look for straight auto cards without the relic because the relic doesn't even have to be from the player on the card. No reason to invest for something pointless. However, those late 90s early 2000s relics are legit. I have a piece of Jackie Robinson pants from the Fleer Traditions Negro Leagues set.

Why do you think they relic isn't from the player on the card? I feel weird defending the card companies, since I don't like a lot of what they have done, but there's no indication that this is being done. It may have happened by mistake, but don't believe there's any indication for anything beyond that.

If you look at particular vintage players over the years, you can generally see that the details (material, pinstripes etc) indicate they are using the same jersey for the same player for years, and those match what would have been appropriate for the players.

Originally Posted by bnorth

Not a comment on those cards because i know nothing abut them. I do like how whatever we as collectors actually collect. We think is real and unaltered but everything else can be fake/altered.

The card companies were definitely much more explicit about the material in the cards in the early years, and were pretty public with at least some of the items they picked up that were cut up. They became much less specific over the years, and from the kinds of material in the cards it seems clear that at least some cases were Old Timer's Jerseys, Coaching jerseys etc.

[todeen]

Originally Posted by bnorth

Not a comment on those cards because i know nothing abut them. I do like how whatever we as collectors actually collect. We think is real and unaltered but everything else can be fake/altered.

I'd never thought about it like that! I just remember all the uproar when relic cards first started coming out. "I can't believe they cut up (enter Players name) (enter players relic). How could they destroy history?" At some point that uproar went away when they changed their comment of authentication to be more generic. And the prices of relic cards dropped too. I figured the combination of both indicated that generic pieces of jersey were being used on cards, rather than finding actual jerseys bats balls pants bases from particular players/stadiums/etc. Maybe we all just became numb and bored with them. But those original UD Piece of History relic cards have sure held their value compared to other relic cards.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[doug.goodman]

Originally Posted by doug.goodman

That's not exactly what bothers me about this card...

In response to multiple private messages, what bothers me about this card is that it exists.

And for those who can't read between the lines, I'm also bothered that a bat no longer does.

Whether that bat is game used, game issued, was at a game, missed the game, was late to the game, ended up at a little league game, couldn't bother me less.