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  #1  
Old 12-30-2011, 11:25 PM
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WillowGrove WillowGrove is offline
Peter F
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Default My Thoughts on Vintage Baseball

I thought I'd take a moment to post on my favorite forum some of my thoughts about baseball that have been in my head for a long time. Pretty random thoughts. I'm sure you have your own as well. Let's find out.
Happy New Year everybody.


To this day I confuse Max Bishop and Bing Miller.

Is Nick Altrock in every team photo of all time?

Hey did you know that when the Yankees dealt Urban Shocker to the Browns they got Eddie Plank in return who retired before reporting?

Jeff Tesreau goes with Claude Passeau who goes with Paul Derringer

Of all the old timers I think about, I want to hear John McGraw's voice the most. How bout you? What player would you like to hear speak?

Don't really like composite photos. I much rather enjoy the thought of the team getting together for a pciture than a printer piecing together existing photos.

Is that actually Jimmy Collins leaping in the Red Belt post card series?

Do you ever go on baseball reference.com, look up a player and then try to guess other players who have similar stats? They have 'similarity scores' at the bottom of each player's page - and it is downright addicting!

When Harry Hooper went to the White Sox how did the Boston fans react?

Isn't it exciting when you see an old publication choose not to use the typical photos of players? I mean Cobb sliding into Jimmy Austin is great but c'mon editors...

Oh and I'd also give like my right arm to hear an interview with one Mr. Rube Waddell.

Does anyone else feel that Goudeys and Diamond Stars are okay but if you want to really get to know a guy you gotta have his exhibit card? (see Eppa Rixey)

I think it maybe time for me to read up on Hugh Jennings and see what made him so great; I'm getting a little tired of his dance, so a shot of education may help me appreciate him more.

and while we're on ol' Hughie, anyone have any candid shots of him? In every photo I see of him, he's either Ee ya-ing or shaking hands in a super posed shot with an opposing manager. gettin' a little boring.

Does anyone else hate the Yankees but love their cards from the early 1920's? Miller Huggins? Bullet Joe Bush? Those sweaters? Babe wasn't Babe juuuuuuust yet. Steinbrenner wasn't born till '30. They were gathering their power.

And how much do you love Lou's exhibit card calling him, Henry L. Gehrig? That's like calling Bono, Paul D. Hewson.

Whenever I come across a player who spent time as a pitcher AND as a hitter/fielder. I'm never 100% comfortable with them.

"Dots Miller!" And a nickname was born.

If you are a fan of vintage baseball and haven't listened to the recordings from Lawrence Ritter's The Glory of Their Times you are doing yourself a big injustice. You will be revited. I guarantee it.

Boy there are a lot of players on B&W caramel cards I don't know. WWI era players. I just never took the time to get to know them. Maybe 2012 I'll go Ivy Wingo on myself.

But I do know that Hank Gowdy is quite often the answer.

Do you remember when you first started collecting and thought certain players were superstars when they really weren't? Like for me Bobby Thomson was a huge name and I couldn't believe it when a dealer left him in with the commons. Not to mention - Rico Petrocelli, John Roseboro, Whitey Lockman, Ron Fairly and bringing it back to vintage - Zeke Bonura, Wild Bill Hallahan, Alvin Crowder, Pepper Martin come to mind. Red Ames is actually still in this category.

I am finally over getting Amos Rusie and Addie Joss mixed up.

Not for nothing but Frank Chance only had six seasons with over 100 hits.

Who wins an arm wrestle - Rabbit Maranville or Willie Keeler? Correct Rabbitt does.

And that reminds me, I gotta look up Willie Kamm.

So what would kids do, go to the candy store and buy strip cards off the role while the store owner cut them? Would they say, "give me 5 players?" Have we ever seen an entire role of these cards still rolled?

Why doesn't the hobby seem to like 1936 Goudeys Wide Pens? The shots are pretty cool. Do we not like our cardboard to actually be thin paper? (see Sporting News supplements)

And how do I know Joe Sewell was a nice guy? When he responded to my mom's request for an autograph for her son's 15th birthday he wrote on the bottom of her letter - "thanks for remembering me".



Anyone else want to tell what they've always been thinking?

Happy New Year. Have a great 2012.

peter
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  #2  
Old 12-31-2011, 12:52 AM
Cardboard Junkie Cardboard Junkie is offline
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I think a lot about Foster Castleman and Purnal Goldy, Gene "Big Daddy" Lipscomb. And that third guy from "bachelors three" that I can't remember right now.

Time for another Becks Dark and a tiny hit!

As I recall, (or so I heard) strip cards came in a type of roll despensing crank type vending machine. For a penny or two, you cranked the handle and they rolled out a small strip. of 5 or so. Like the old U. S. stamp machines. Some types you just pulled a lever or slide.
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  #3  
Old 12-31-2011, 01:32 AM
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really enjoyed that read, Peter. Thank you!
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  #4  
Old 12-31-2011, 05:32 AM
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Peter, love the randomness. That was a fun read! For sure Rabbit wins over "Wee" Willie. Have a great 2012 friend! Hope your Mets find a little more magic this season!

Best,

Andy
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  #5  
Old 12-31-2011, 06:31 AM
BlueDevil89 BlueDevil89 is offline
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Great post!

I've always secretly believed that Christy Mathewson and Grover Cleveland Alexander were twins in the metaphysical sense, with one getting all "goodness' and the other getting all the "meanness" when they split into two separate entities. Think about it...

Happy New Year to All!
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  #6  
Old 01-08-2012, 05:26 PM
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WillowGrove WillowGrove is offline
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Thanks for your comments guys. Anyone else have their own random comments on vintage baseball?
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  #7  
Old 01-08-2012, 05:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WillowGrove View Post
Thanks for your comments guys. Anyone else have their own random comments on vintage baseball?
I have one besides the fact I like the Dots Miller reference in your first post, don't know how I missed it.

I was just saying to my dad today it's sad how few people care about baseball history and the proof was in two articles I wrote for the Pirates website I write for yesterday. A story about a rumor about Vicente Padilla pitching for the Pirates scouts down in Nicaragua gets picked up by tons of sites and plenty of people discuss it(took me about 30 minutes total to write the story,if that). I post a bio of Claude Ritchey early this morning that took about 3 hours to write/edit and it gets about 1/10th the amount of hits. Makes me a little sick how big of a difference there can be between those two stories.

Oh well, I guess years from now the Ritchey article will still be interesting to a select few, hopefully, for the hobbies sake.
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Please check out my books. Bio of Dots Miller https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CV633PNT 13 short stories of players who were with the Pirates during the regular season, but never appeared in a game for them https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CY574YNS
The follow up to that book looks at 20 Pirates players who played one career game.
https://www.amazon.com/Moment-Sun-On.../dp/B0DHKJHXQJ
The worst team in Pirates franchise history
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0C6W3HKL8
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  #8  
Old 01-08-2012, 07:21 PM
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Fun thread.

I have this pc Im nearly certain it's 1904 Jimmy Collins and positive it's is Huntington. Why he's playing second base wearing Florsheims is anyones guess.

Wait, is that fellow sliding who I think it is?!
Attached Images
File Type: jpg jimmy collins pc zoom.jpg (21.3 KB, 358 views)
File Type: jpg 1908HuntingtonAvePostcard-JimmyC-1.jpg (32.1 KB, 357 views)
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  #9  
Old 01-10-2012, 05:54 AM
timzcardz timzcardz is offline
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Great post!

Reading it reminded me of Andy Rooney. R.I.P.
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  #10  
Old 01-10-2012, 07:51 AM
Hot Springs Bathers Hot Springs Bathers is offline
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Peter that was fantastic!

I have spent the past year with a great group of fellow SABR members working on our Hot Springs Historic Baseball Trail which will debut this Spring. We will have 25-35 plaques around town tying those location to significant/fun baseball events here during our golden age of Spring Training 1886-1929.

Speaking of Rabbitt, he basically ended his lengthy career here jumping out of a second story window after refusing to pay for an evening with a lady of questionable repute. His ankle was fractured.

On St. Patrick's Day in 1918 Ruth hit a homerun against the Dodgers that supposedly covered 565 feet into an alligator farm.

I have had enormous fun over the years talking baseball with my Dad who turns 94 in a few weeks. He missed most of the heyday here but did see many players who continued to come for the thermal baths.

Hot Springs celebrated Cy Young Day on Feb. 24th, 1938 to thank Cy for still coming to town every year. That was on my Dad's 20th birthday by the way.

A fellow by the name of Ray Doan opened a baseball school on the old fields in 1933 right across the street from my grandparent's house. Dad worked there raking the infield, watering and such. That first year 11 future hall of famers were the instructors.

My Dad used a glove given to him by Jimmy Foxx for years.

While I never had the chance to see or hear any of these people being born in 1954 I have closed my eyes and wondered about them many times. I have used that link between my Dad and his Dad that did see the game and it's stars in the deadball era and beyond.

Did my Grandfather see Charlie Grant the black bellhop from here that McGraw tried to sign as an indian? McGraw was fined here for shooting craps on the sidewalk on one visit. Was he downtown when "Nuff" Ced McGreavy and "Honey Fitz" brought the Royal Rooters on a special train to see their beloved Red Sox on several occasions? He lived until 1968 but I was not baseball educated enough to ask.

My Grandfather was fined in 1938 while on jury duty when a woman hung that jury during the World Series. Papa wanted to listen to his Giants and he told her to "Either bleep or get off the pot, the games was about to start."

It was here in 1925 that Babe either ate too much or contracted whatever that led to the "bellyache heard around the world."

Dad as a child with a couple of his brothers ran into Ruth walking on the mountain a few times with several other players, I wonder who they were? The players gave them a nickel each!

Just some of my random thoughts.

I did have my baseball moment this past July while sitting at an Arkansas Travs game with my daughter. A fellow came in and sat next to me with a large back pack. He pulled out his radar gun and note pad. We began talking and it turned out to be Hal Morris. Best nine innings ever for me, he was a great gentleman.
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Old 01-10-2012, 01:03 PM
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David Bender David Bender is offline
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For what it's worth, I thought the Claude Ritchey piece was really interesting as all of your historical pieces have been. Thanks for writing those.

I read the Padilla piece too of course.


Quote:
Originally Posted by z28jd View Post
I have one besides the fact I like the Dots Miller reference in your first post, don't know how I missed it.

I was just saying to my dad today it's sad how few people care about baseball history and the proof was in two articles I wrote for the Pirates website I write for yesterday. A story about a rumor about Vicente Padilla pitching for the Pirates scouts down in Nicaragua gets picked up by tons of sites and plenty of people discuss it(took me about 30 minutes total to write the story,if that). I post a bio of Claude Ritchey early this morning that took about 3 hours to write/edit and it gets about 1/10th the amount of hits. Makes me a little sick how big of a difference there can be between those two stories.

Oh well, I guess years from now the Ritchey article will still be interesting to a select few, hopefully, for the hobbies sake.
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  #12  
Old 01-10-2012, 04:12 PM
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z28jd z28jd is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Bender View Post
For what it's worth, I thought the Claude Ritchey piece was really interesting as all of your historical pieces have been. Thanks for writing those.

I read the Padilla piece too of course.


Thanks David, the funny part is the Padilla rumor turned out to be just that, the Pirates denied it so it could've been just something made up by the agent to make it seem like their was interest in his client

On another note, love that Collins postcard above!
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Please check out my books. Bio of Dots Miller https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CV633PNT 13 short stories of players who were with the Pirates during the regular season, but never appeared in a game for them https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CY574YNS
The follow up to that book looks at 20 Pirates players who played one career game.
https://www.amazon.com/Moment-Sun-On.../dp/B0DHKJHXQJ
The worst team in Pirates franchise history
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0C6W3HKL8
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Old 01-10-2012, 05:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by z28jd View Post
I have one besides the fact I like the Dots Miller reference in your first post, don't know how I missed it. I post a bio of Claude Ritchey early this morning that took about 3 hours to write/edit and it gets about 1/10th the amount of hits. Makes me a little sick how big of a difference there can be between those two stories.

Oh well, I guess years from now the Ritchey article will still be interesting to a select few, hopefully, for the hobbies sake.
I read your article on Pirates Prospects. In fact, I read almost all of them. You do nice work. I didn't comment on it because it makes me mad to think how we lost him in such a lousy trade to Boston. Anyway, that site is helping me get through another January.
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Old 01-10-2012, 05:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark View Post
I read your article on Pirates Prospects. In fact, I read almost all of them. You do nice work. I didn't comment on it because it makes me mad to think how we lost him in such a lousy trade to Boston. Anyway, that site is helping me get through another January.
I read that part of the reasoning for that trade was because of the Italian population in Pittsburgh at the time, Barney Dreyfuss wanted an Italian player to take advantage of that and his choices were basically Ed Abbaticchio or waiting around for the DiMaggio brothers to be born. The funny, or not so funny from a Pirates fan standpoint, is that the Pirates went 93-60 in 1906 before the trade and they drew about 395,000 fans. The next year they went 91-63 and drew just under 320,000....so much for drawing in the Italian fans with a star.

It was also said the deal got more one-sided because the Giants got involved in the bidding and Dreyfuss wasn't a big fan of them so he added more to outbid them. They also thought Beaumont was done as a player due to injury and Flaherty wasn't anything more than an emergency starter so they figured they were upgrading at 2B and giving up a couple of bench/bullpen options but they were obviously wrong.

The other thing I saw was that Abbaticchio was hyped up a bit so during a time with less scouting options and stats to go on, they may have fell for it. A perfect storm of poor reasons to overpay for a guy who sat out an entire season in 1906, you would think as a non-superstar that would've lowered his price! Especially since he was 30 years old at the time during a period when skills declined rapidly at that age for many
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Please check out my books. Bio of Dots Miller https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CV633PNT 13 short stories of players who were with the Pirates during the regular season, but never appeared in a game for them https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CY574YNS
The follow up to that book looks at 20 Pirates players who played one career game.
https://www.amazon.com/Moment-Sun-On.../dp/B0DHKJHXQJ
The worst team in Pirates franchise history
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0C6W3HKL8
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Old 01-10-2012, 08:40 PM
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Fred Leib wrote that Dreyfuss was always willing to pay a fair price for the players that he acquired---I suppose that he had deals like this one in mind.
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