GAI Slabbed Fro Joys

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Posted By: Paul

I wasn't going to "out the auction", but I dont think too many of us will get worked up over this one. Here's a slabbed Fro Joy that doesn't look good to me. I was surprised to see it & the others graded by one of the "big four" grading companies. It's not that I think they cant be authenticated, but some are obviously not good. I believe there are some really nice photoengraved reprints out there (possibly printed with the original plates)that are tough to distinguish from the originals without a side by side comparison (they do lack some of the clarity of the originals) This one doesn't even look like one of the good reprints IMHO.

[IMG][/IMG]




added real ones to compare....

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Posted By: leon

Paul and I emailed about this, this morning. I am also about 99.9% sure this is fake.....I am not sure what GAI was thinking but I don't think I would be bidding on this.....I guess there goes my advertising millions ....

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Posted By: Matt

SGC won't slab them...

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Posted By: dan mckee

oops! just saw this post guys, I am sorry. You can tell I don't read the board much any more. Old, blind, and lazy is no way for me to go through life!

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Posted By: Rob L

The box on the back has broken corners. The original Fro Joys do not. Clearly a fake.

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Posted By: dan mckee

Great eyes Rob! but by posting the darn forgers may get a little better next time!

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Posted By: T206Collector

Though, I do give them credit for being able to look up a card this way:

This card has been graded and authenticated by Global's team of experts.
It is authentic as long as it stays encapsulated within the Global Card Holder.

Manufacturer 1928 Fro-joy #1
Player BABE RUTH
Sport Baseball
Cert Number 10425013
Grade 7
First Graded No
Click here for more information on Global Grading Standards.

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Posted By: MVSNYC

"...one of the "big four" grading companies."

i thought there were only 2

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Posted By: Jimmy

the card should be more of a cream color, just does not look right

Jimmy

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Posted By: Bob

The seller has taken down the auctions for all of his GAI Fro-Joys. Wonder if someone made an offer he couldn't refuse or GAI got cold feet about these cards and offered to buy them back????

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Posted By: Gilbert Maines

This statement, imo, is premature:


T206Collector
(Login T206Collector) From GAI website October 26 2007, 12:08 PM


Though, I do give them credit for being able to look up a card this way:

This card has been graded and authenticated by Global's team of experts.
It is authentic as long as it stays encapsulated within the Global Card Holder.



The hobby has not yet given sufficient credibility to the grading companies that would empower them to make perception of higher value than fact. A fake card is not real just because it is holdered as such. A Heinie Wagner does not become a Honus because of its holder, however, when they can use opinion (subjectivity) as an excuse, they get away with anything.

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Posted By: davidcycleback

A definition of fake is something that is significantly mislabeled or misidentified-- the label and the object are distinctly different. Someone who relies on the label will be faked into believing the object is something it is not. When the label is corrected, the object is no longer a fake. Generally, 'fake' applies to major errors in identity (ala reprint versus original), rather than PSA mispelling 'Casey Stengel' on the label of his 1951 Bowman or calling an original Babe Ruth photo 1933 instead of 1931.

Notice that a fake isn't defined by the object alone, but by the object verus its label. If you call a 2003 reprint a 2003 reprint, it's not a fake. Someone relying on your label will know what it is-- a 2003 reprint.

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Posted By: leon

Had GAI put "reprint" on the flip I would have been fine with it....though I rarely understand authenticating and grading reprints, it happens....and of course it generates revenue for the grader. I understand a grading company doing it I just don't understand someone wanting it done...to each their own though...

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Posted By: MVSNYC

david-

only 7 edits? you're slackin'

i love teasing you about that...it's funny.

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Posted By: dan mckee

These are garbage fakes an anyone who authenticates them are idiots! Bottom line!

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Posted By: Rob L

I think these can be authenticated if the authenticator knows what to look for. Unfortunately a 10x loupe is not going to do it. David's work on detecting the photoengraving process indicates that a 100x magnification would be necessary to discern the imprint of the engraving as well as the darker edge around the dots. I have seen several Fro Joys that appeared to be correctly slabbed as authentic by Beckett, but that's it.

Rob L

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Posted By: Paul

I suspect that there's photoengraved reprints out there. I've collected & handled many Fro Joys over the years, & I recently did a side by side comparison of two portrait cards that were both photoengraved. The card stock & ink looked the same under the microscope, but only one of them gave me that warm & fuzzy feeling of being authentic. It had slightly better clarity, & just triggered that instinct we develop over the years. Also, I talked to Danny Fisher from GAI a couple years ago when they would not grade Fro Joy's. He told me that in the past they would send some of them out to somebody else for another opinion, & then they stopped grading them because it was too big of a hastle. I asked him if there were photoengraved reprints, & he said there were. That is the only rational explanation why grading companies would have difficulty in determining authenticity in my opinion. Yes they can be authenticated, but that person needs to have handled many Fro Joys. Just my opinion. Any other opinions out there?

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Posted By: leon

I agree with the photoengraving theory. I have heard a story, not confirmed, about a machine that was printing these, maybe after the mfg date, and was the same type machine that they would have used back in the day. I have handled lots of rerprints and fakes and some have given me a hard time. If you handle enough they will either give you a warm fuzzy or not, but are sometimes very difficult to tell otherwise.....I like the "running them through your fingers" (feel) test and the "uneven gloss" tests the best...best regards