Trout v. Legendary cards

[GasHouseGang]

I think The aphorism "a rising tide lifts all boats" may apply in this case. The hype surrounding this card sale may help raise the prices in the short term of other Mike Trout cards. Whether it can be sustained is the question.

[JeremyW]

Originally Posted by Directly

These type of headlines mega sales and all the media hype are feeding the fire, we haven't seen anything yet - past buyers are returning plus thousands of new collectors, investors are jumping on the band wagon! (buying vintage and modern, especially basketball )

I agree. All large sales are good for the hobby, in general. Nothing goes up forever, but cards have been overlooked for some time now & the people that think that they're toys & not investments should reconsider.

[rdwyer]

Another rare item. Just picked up today. Practice ball.

[Tao_Moko]

Originally Posted by Jim65

Same as Ted Williams. And Trout has roughly 10 more years to play.

If comparisons are going to be made then they should probably be relative. Maybe compare Trout to Pucket? Ted was a Marine aviator and combat veteran. He was also one of the purest hitters in the game and followed an amazing, shortened, career as a manager and mentor. Little Mikey Trout can't fit in those britches. Ten more years of playing won't compare him to a Marine who happened to also play baseball.

[Goldin Auctions]

Here is. Great read. Everyone trying to understand what is going on in the business , and any vintage collector should read
And look at quote about Wagner and what it would sell for today....

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sport...dg7DX-0L68fCr0

[Dpeck100]

The 1993 SP Derek Jeter PSA 10 was under a pop 10 and $6,500 when I got serious about buying cards in 2009. Considered the most over valued card in the hobby on every message board. At $15,000 it was insane and there was no where to go but down.

There is one of these and only one person can say they own the Super Refractor.

In 1986 the Donruss Jose Canseco was the card. Peaked at $120 in the Beckett. Anyone with enough money could get one. No matter how deep your pockets are only one person can say they own this card.

I don’t pretend to know if this is a good buy or a bad one but the price is a function of our current reality. How much would a Jordan rookie 1/1 be? There are 313 PSA 10’s at an average of $75,000 so it has a market cap of nearly 23.5 million just in that grade from PSA alone.

The closest substitute is a numbered to five card. The artificial scarcity has worked year after year with sports cards and this guy just happens to be the best player in the league at the moment.

If someone put a gun to my head and said you have to pick a direction my bet would be up.

[Jim65]

Originally Posted by Tao_Moko

If comparisons are going to be made then they should probably be relative. Maybe compare Trout to Pucket? Ted was a Marine aviator and combat veteran. He was also one of the purest hitters in the game and followed an amazing, shortened, career as a manager and mentor. Little Mikey Trout can't fit in those britches. Ten more years of playing won't compare him to a Marine who happened to also play baseball.

Not comparing them. Just pointing that they have the same amount of playoff experience. Judging players by postseason appearances is silly, is Ernie Banks not a great player?

[steve B]

Originally Posted by Tyruscobb

I’m not counting broken printing plates, small print runs, plates getting pulled, a 1934 Lajoie situation, etc. Again, these companies had no clue the card market would explode 50 years later. The cards weren’t the product like they are now. The product was gum, candy, tobacco, bread, etc.

Bowman purposely created a one of one card simply to make it valuable. When did this occur during the pre-war years?

The Wagner was pulled from production, one of those things not counted.
The 1916 Sporting news Ruth is by far the most graded card in that set.
The Mantle is a double print.
All more common than hundreds of other cards even before the whole 1/1 thing began.

Many of the prewar cards had really small print runs by modern standards. So I'm not sure just what you count. Both George C Miller and US Caramel deliberately made very few of one card in a set, and Goudey trying to be sly and simply not making a card to push more sales is well known. (The first 0/0?)

Would I spend 4 million on a Trout card? No. But not because it's rarity is somehow fake.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by Joshwesley

The question begs to be asked:


Is there anyone on here that would take the Trout over a T206 Wagner (if given the chance)?

I think that number is gonna be low...

You don’t invest in players that are still active/still alive.

While very unlikely: What if Trout went
OJ Simpson or Joe Paterno later in life?

What if he shreds his knee chasing a fly ball later on this week and is never the same?

If you’ve got 4mm to put in a baseball card, I guess it doesn’t matter anyhow

Would I be paying for it or do you walk up to me with one card in each hand and tell me one but only one is free?

If I'm not paying, I take the Trout.
Then I can flip it and buy a couple Wagners. If I'm not fussy about condition, I might even be able to get all three backs.

[sbfinley]

It's funny to me the disdain and annoyance that some vintage collectors (my primary focus) have towards modern cards and to some extent the prices they command. One is old, one is new. At the end of the day it's all pictures of dudes from a sport we love or like, and to 99.99% of the world spending even $500 on a baseball card is absurd. The current excitement in modern collecting world is great for the hobby because A) it cements the next generation of hobby members and B) the majority of "vintage" collectors start with current issues and begin working backwards.

Personally, I have no shock this card reached this value. If you even minimally follow the game on a daily basis it's clear he the best all-around player in the game and a multi-generational talent. Other members have mentioned names like Fidrych and Lindros and questioned his hobby future should he be injured tomorrow. It makes me wonder if they even currently follow the game. He's not a hyped prospect or the latest sensation. He is universally recognized as the best player in the game without question. In 8 full seasons (on primarily a losing team) he has finished 2,2,1,2,1,4,2,1 in MVP voting. He will be top 50 in career WAR for position players after 8.5 seasons following the abbreviated 2020 year. That stated, this is his singular most important card and given the current state of economic investments this price doesn't shock me. It might not be your cup of tea but be happy the hobby is rolling forward.

Originally Posted by Tao_Moko

If comparisons are going to be made then they should probably be relative. Maybe compare Trout to Pucket? Ted was a Marine aviator and combat veteran. He was also one of the purest hitters in the game and followed an amazing, shortened, career as a manager and mentor. Little Mikey Trout can't fit in those britches. Ten more years of playing won't compare him to a Marine who happened to also play baseball.

As someone who taught history (including the story of Ted Williams and his service during both WW2 and Korea) I completely understand both his importance to game and his contributions to our nation. But the comparison provided between Trout and Williams is about as relative as it gets in the context this of this entire thread and the comment the reply was referencing. The entire context of the comparison was their seminal greatness in the game of baseball and the comparative lack of team success. We can praise and celebrate Ted Williams' service to his country without belittling someone who lived in an entirely different time and circumstances. Also.... "Puckett" is a terrible analogy because A) he won 2 World Series Rings in 12 years and B) Trout is much much better statistically speaking.

[Republicaninmass]

What about all my stuff from the home shopping network in the 80s that was guanrarees to go up and I could retire with the proceeds? Just didnt say when I could retire, where, or how long!

[samosa4u]

Originally Posted by Jim65

Same as Ted Williams. And Trout has roughly 10 more years to play.

And Ted Williams sells for how much? Yeah, Trout has ten more years to play ... with the Angels.

Originally Posted by Jim65

Judging players by postseason appearances is silly, is Ernie Banks not a great player?

Not silly at all. I think when it comes to determining the value of any player, the most important criteria is how many championships he won. Why do people spend crazy money on Mantle, Ruth, Jordan, Gretzky, Brady and Pele? Because these guys were all winners, and they did it many times. Yes, Ernie Banks was a really gifted player, but he never won, and this is why his cards sell for peanuts compared to the other guys.

[Tao_Moko]

Originally Posted by sbfinley

It's funny to me the disdain and annoyance that some vintage collectors (my primary focus) have towards modern cards and to some extent the prices they command. One is old, one is new. At the end of the day it's all pictures of dudes from a sport we love or like, and to 99.99% of the world spending even $500 on a baseball card is absurd. The current excitement in modern collecting world is great for the hobby because A) it cements the next generation of hobby members and B) the majority of "vintage" collectors start with current issues and begin working backwards.

Personally, I have no shock this card reached this value. If you even minimally follow the game on a daily basis it's clear he the best all-around player in the game and a multi-generational talent. Other members have mentioned names like Fidrych and Lindros and questioned his hobby future should he be injured tomorrow. It makes me wonder if they even currently follow the game. He's not a hyped prospect or the latest sensation. He is universally recognized as the best player in the game without question. In 8 full seasons (on primarily a losing team) he has finished 2,2,1,2,1,4,2,1 in MVP voting. He will be top 50 in career WAR for position players after 8.5 seasons following the abbreviated 2020 year. That stated, this is his singular most important card and given the current state of economic investments this price doesn't shock me. It might not be your cup of tea but be happy the hobby is rolling forward.




As someone who taught history (including the story of Ted Williams and his service during both WW2 and Korea) I completely understand both his importance to game and his contributions to our nation. But the comparison provided between Trout and Williams is about as relative as it gets in the context this of this entire thread and the comment the reply was referencing. The entire context of the comparison was their seminal greatness in the game of baseball and the comparative lack of team success. We can praise and celebrate Ted Williams' service to his country without belittling someone who lived in an entirely different time and circumstances. Also.... "Puckett" is a terrible analogy because A) he won 2 World Series Rings in 12 years and B) Trout is much much better statistically speaking.

You're correct. Comparing him to Puckett was a huge mistake. Trout has 1351 hits and a .304 so it's unlikely he improves his BA over the next three seasons and gets a thousand hits to match Puckett. He may with longevity do it, but doesn't seem on track at present. I wish Trout the best, but he's got a long ways to go to be in the same breath of the greats. Relative to card value - they are only worth what someone will pay so apparently Trout is worth it to some. Can't argue when there's no right answer. I'm not much older than Trout and I fought in two theaters as a Marine so he could have too but sports and money were more important. He probably would have been great to have on my team. It's a good reminder that these are just athletes playing a game and none of their pictures should be worth millions. To think what I could do with $3.2 million. Wouldn't be buy baseball cards.

[Shoeless Moe]

Arod
Bonds
Cabrera
Manny

all better hitters.........that "could" change in 10 years, but as of now.

[Tomi]

Originally Posted by Shoeless Moe

Arod
Bonds
Cabrera
Manny

all better hitters.........that "could" change in 10 years, but as of now.

Pujols was a better hitter than all those guys. Power and average.
3 of those guys needed help (PED's) with their numbers so Cabrera would be the only one without PED ties.

[sbfinley]

Originally Posted by Shoeless Moe

Arod
Bonds
Cabrera
Manny

all better hitters.........that "could" change in 10 years, but as of now.

All absolutely amazing hitters. And here is how they stack up roughly through their first 8.7 seasons. "Better" is a loose term.

Bonds - .281/.388/.914 --- 222HR --- 679RBI --- 801Runs --- 71.9WAR
Arod - .301/.368/.935 --- 298HR --- 872RBI --- 881Runs --- 55.9WAR
Miggy - .311/.384/.931 --- 247HR --- 879RBI --- 741 Runs --- 39.7WAR
Manny - .312/.406/1.003 --- 275HR --- 924RBI --- 753Runs --- 36.0WAR
Trout - .305/.417/1.097 --- 295HR --- 777RBI --- 920RUNS --- 73.5WAR

Originally Posted by Tomi

Pujols was a better hitter than all those guys. Power and average.
3 of those guys needed help (PED's) with their numbers so Cabrera would be the only one without PED ties.

Agree. Pujols is the most feared hitter of the modern generation. He would probably be bold across the board save for WAR if I added him to above.

[puckpaul]

Hard to know if any of them are clean, especially Pujols... but wouldn’t surprise me if Cabrera and Trout juiced as well.

Originally Posted by sbfinley

All absolutely amazing hitters. And here is how they stack up roughly through their first 8.7 seasons. "Better" is a loose term.

Bonds - .281/.388/.914 --- 222HR --- 679RBI --- 801Runs --- 71.9WAR
Arod - .301/.368/.935 --- 298HR --- 872RBI --- 881Runs --- 55.9WAR
Miggy - .311/.384/.931 --- 247HR --- 879RBI --- 741 Runs --- 39.7WAR
Manny - .312/.406/1.003 --- 275HR --- 924RBI --- 753Runs --- 36.0WAR
Trout - .305/.417/1.097 --- 295HR --- 777RBI --- 920RUNS --- 73.5WAR




Agree. Pujols is the most feared hitter of the modern generation. He would probably be bold across the board save for WAR if I added him to above.

[vthobby]

I can't tell a lie......I bought a BGS 9.5 Signed Trout RC Refractor (the one that there are 500 of) about a year ago for a tidy sum but it still rocketed over 100% in the last year.......

Literally sold the Trout RC this week to a private collector. It paid entirely for my new REA win of a 1952 Topps Mantle (my 1st one ever) which by the way set a world record for a PSA 1! Undergraded IMO!

The "swap" was not planned but after my Mantle "coup" I was offered an insane amount for my Trout. I pulled the trigger and still had enough left over for a nice dinner or two!

Crazy world indeed!

Peace, Mike

item_68909_1_152812.jpg

[todeen]

Originally Posted by vtgmsc

I can't tell a lie......I bought a BGS 9.5 Signed Trout RC Refractor (the one that there are 500 of) about a year ago for a tidy sum but it still rocketed over 100% in the last year.......

Literally sold the Trout RC this week to a private collector. It paid entirely for my new REA win of a 1952 Topps Mantle (my 1st one ever) which by the way set a world record for a PSA 1! Undergraded IMO!

The "swap" was not planned but after my Mantle "coup" I was offered an insane amount for my Trout. I pulled the trigger and still had enough left over for a nice dinner or two!

Crazy world indeed!

Peace, Mike

Attachment 415216

Congrats! Buy what you like.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[vthobby]

Thanks Tim......been doing that since 1976.......it has treated me very well!

Buy what you want and/or buy the card not the grade!

Words to live by and pay your mortgage by!

Peace, Mike

[toledo_mudhen]

I would suggest that this entire discussion - on this forum - is like "preachin to the choir" as I would think that given the choice - 99.99% of the members on this forum would opt to own either the Wagner or the Mantle without hesitation over the Trout card.

Other forums (CU?) maybe not so much -

The cards that we all collect are much more than some uber investment - they connect us with our past. They bring back memories of bicycle spokes and card flipping, and mowing grass or shoveling snow in order to purchase a couple packs of the unknown at our local neighborhood market.

These 2 mindsets are light years apart and I doubt if they will ever merge. I'm good with that.

[glynparson]

Originally Posted by Tao_Moko

You're correct. Comparing him to Puckett was a huge mistake. Trout has 1351 hits and a .304 so it's unlikely he improves his BA over the next three seasons and gets a thousand hits to match Puckett. He may with longevity do it, but doesn't seem on track at present. I wish Trout the best, but he's got a long ways to go to be in the same breath of the greats. Relative to card value - they are only worth what someone will pay so apparently Trout is worth it to some. Can't argue when there's no right answer. I'm not much older than Trout and I fought in two theaters as a Marine so he could have too but sports and money were more important. He probably would have been great to have on my team. It's a good reminder that these are just athletes playing a game and none of their pictures should be worth millions. To think what I could do with $3.2 million. Wouldn't be buy baseball cards.

As someone who comes from
A gold star marine family I thank you for your service but this attack on mike trout is beyond ignorant. And yes ted was a great patriot but he was also an asshole to many of his fans. They didn’t call him the spitter because he was a nice guy. And he was very arrogant wouldn’t even recognize the crowds appreciation after his final hr. Yes was an amazing person in many ways but also an asshole in many. I have never heard anything but compliments on Mr. trout and his interactions with fans. Military service is honorable but that doesn’t mean you are a better person simply for having done it. And I hate to break it but very few people collect cards of military heroes compared to those of athletic heroes.

[MattyC]

This hobby is in a very bad place. Shady pump and dump groups no different than slimeball boiler room hucksters. A veritable cottage industry of chop shops supplying TPGs with trimmed submissions by the boatload. The selfish shaking pom poms at the ever rising fake sales of doctored cards because they like the value of their collections going up. Then the marks believing the hype who go and buy into a market fueled on so much shade, thereby contributing real sales after the fake. It has nothing anymore to do with the games or their legends or the cards— it’s just some guys out there trying to 2x or 10x their money in a fast way.

[puckpaul]

Well, when you print $7 trillion, stuff happens. Stock market is like this too. See TSLA!

But many cards were undervalued if demand increased a little. We’ll see what happens. World is fragile, perhaps, but as we continue to print money and dollars get more worthless, this stuff will continue.

[vintagewhitesox]

Originally Posted by toledo_mudhen

I would suggest that this entire discussion - on this forum - is like "preachin to the choir" as I would think that given the choice - 99.99% of the members on this forum would opt to own either the Wagner or the Mantle without hesitation over the Trout card.

Other forums (CU?) maybe not so much -

The cards that we all collect are much more than some uber investment - they connect us with our past. They bring back memories of bicycle spokes and card flipping, and mowing grass or shoveling snow in order to purchase a couple packs of the unknown at our local neighborhood market.

These 2 mindsets are light years apart and I doubt if they will ever merge. I'm good with that.

great point. I am going to play devils advocate . I think I'd take the Trout over the Wagner.
I have seen Trout play in person, seen him his entire career. Seen the videos of him playing catch with a kid in the stands.
I feel a much more personal connection to a player I can watch hit tonight. Collecting is very personal. There's one thing we all can agree on though, buy what you like!

[Yoda]

Having lived through a few vintage card booms and busts, I would only offer one piece of advise during uncertain times, which we are certainly experiencing at the moment, and that is to buy value players and hold them when shocks come. Given their records and life stories, Mantle Cobb, Ruth and Gehrig cards will always hold value in tough times, but so will Matty, Wojo and Hornsby, Foxx, Clemente, Koufax, Mays etc.
As far as the Trout card is concerned, I just don't know, but the 4m price tag certainly represents a paradigm shift in the new card market.

[Delray Vintage]

Trout card going for $4 mill is like a high flying tech stock rising on momentum. No one can really say why it has risen so fast. There are speculators willing to bet on continued rise. It does not really matter to those speculators why it rises as long as there is someone willing to pay more. They will say it is unstoppable and a sure thing.

Cobb, Ruth and Mantle are the AT&T, Berkshire Hathaway like cards. They will rise in time and have strong fundamentals. Buyers want to own these cards for a long time and don’t think of their collection as a way to make a quick buck.

Young card buyers love Trout. He is a great player who will make the Hall of a Fame. That does not mean his $4 mil card or any of these created rarities will survive the test of time. Maybe I am wrong but fundamentals matter. History matters. I would take Honus Wagner and sleep well knowing it will appreciate over time. Trout is a Vegas Dave card. Vegas and betting are the key words.

[packs]

Trout is the greatest player any of us will ever see, unless one of us was lucky enough to be around to see Ruth and is still alive today.

Do I think this card is worth the sale price? No. But I'm also very surprised at the cavalier attitudes people have toward Trout. You will never see another player like him as long as you live, and there has only really been two players in history before him (Ruth and Mantle) who you might have seen.

Why not sit back and enjoy it?

[Exhibitman]

I think the analysis is a little bit off here, guys. Comparing this player to that player misses the mark. We should be comparing this card to that card. Trout cards in general (not the superfractor 1/1 type cards) represent a combination of things that simply were not present 75 years ago:

--Massive exposure through multiple forms of media that were not available to earlier generations: look at the media coverage of this card...there was never any news on baseball cards when we were kids.

--Very intelligent marketing by companies that have far more data about consumer preference than ever before: the cards are carefully calibrated to deliver precisely what consumer feedback, which is nearly instantaneous with the various forms of social media, indicates. An example is the shift from sticker to on-card autographs in higher end limited cards, because the companies learned that collectors view the stickers with less regard than an on card signature, and they view a cut signature with some disdain, especially if it is miscut.

--The purposeful creation of product that is meant for a wealthy adult population, not for kids popping packs at the corner candy store: if anyone has purchased higher end product in bulk from 'whole-tailers' like DA Card World, you can see that this is not something for kids. A case of 2020 Topps Heritage cost nearly $100 a box on pre-order. For my birthday in 1975 my parents bought me a complete box of cards, at a cost of $10. Modern premium cards are not kid's toys.

--24/7/365 collecting opportunities: eBay, 10,000 auction houses, etc. In other words, constant trading and feedback on modern cards from pre-orders of new products to instantaneous markets on significant pulls, prized rookies and prospects, etc.

--The recognition and acceptance of cards as an alternative form of investment: since the 1989 Upper Deck gold rush new cards have been the penny stocks for people who don't participate in the Wall Street casino. I do not know good stock from livestock, but I know and can understand where the value is in sports cards. Buying and breaking down a case of higher end product is a calculated investment/gamble given how good the manufacturers have gotten at sorting/collating the hits into the products. Bust a box and you will find that you nearly always get the number of hits you are supposed to; the quality of the hits varies. Pull a very low print run card of a superstar or prized prospect and you can pay for the entire box with a hefty profit, instantly. I've actually busted a box at the National, had a hit, and sold the card right to the dealer who sold me the box, at a profit.

What I am saying, in short, is that viewing modern card purchasing and investing through a vintage collecting lens is a mistake. How a modern product purchaser/investor looks at things will never make sense to a vintage collector. These guys are about flipping and profiting, not loving a rare card.

[thatkidfromjerrymaguire]

Another great discussion!

Obviously, as this is a discussion board about vintage baseball cards, the majority of us (myself included) would prefer a rare Wagner, Ruth, Cobb, Mantle, etc. to a Mike Trout card.

However, in no way do I dismiss this recent Trout sale (as well as any future sale of that card) as any crazier than prices paid for blue chip vintage.

I think a lot of current vintage collectors probably went through a time in our lives as younger collectors when we used to look longingly at those expensive vintage cards and couldn't imagine a day that we could someday own them. Fast forward to our current and future selves when we are lucky enough to be in a position in our lives to have some disposable income that we actually CAN have cards of Babe Ruth, Mickey Mantle, Ty Cobb, Willie Mays! And that is what has been driving the increased price/value in vintage over the last 20 years.

Right now there are probably a lot of modern collectors/baseball fans in their twenties, teens, or younger that read about the sale of an almost $4 million dollar 1 of 1 Mike Trout card...and they can't imagine ever owning it. However, it will only take TWO of those kids to become wealthy in their future years to get into a bidding war for what, to them, is the ultimate baseball card.

It's unlikely for that card to sell for more than 4 million in any auction coming up in the next year or so....but I wouldn't be shocked to see that card sell for 10 million, 50 million, 100+ million in 15 to 20 years.

The same nostalgia that we feel for vintage cards is the same nostalgia that current collectors will feel when they hit that stage in their life/careers where they can collect/invest in things that make them happy and bring them back to their childhood. While a lot of us have a hard time understanding the allure of new, shiny, 1 of 1 cards, there is whole generation of collectors growing up with it. And in their lifetime, that Mike Trout card may come to be known as the pinnacle of collecting. Who knows how much that card might auction for in the future.

[benjulmag]

The issue to me isn't that Trout is not a great baseball player, or not a great ambassador for the game. Nor is the issue that a person doesn't have the right to spend his/her money how he/she pleases. And if the individual who spent $4M for this card feels it is worth every penny of that based on how he/she values collectibles, who am I too judge?

Rather the issue to me is that the value derives from an intentionally created scarcity manufactured for the sole purpose of generating value.

So, one might ask, what is wrong with that if what in the end is created is a true 1/1 card of a once-in-generation player? Nothing, except what is to prevent a whole slew of newly-designed 1/1 cards for each new player to enter the league? And in addition to that do the same for all existing star players. Certainty the economic incentive will be there for the card manufacturers to do precisely that. It will be akin to a marketing strategy made in heaven.... at least short term. But isn't there a risk that if this were to happen collectors in time might begin to look at such 1/1s as representing not a 1/1, but instead view each 1/1 to be part of the same group? So, say, if in 20 years this has been done to all new players that entered the league in that period, and each player had four 1/1s created for him, and for all existing star players until they retired they too each year had four 1/1s created for them, instead of the Trout card being a 1/1, it instead might be viewed as more akin to 1/few thousand? And if so, maybe a lot of the luster of (i.e., demand for) the card will dissipate.

I can't predict the future any better than the next person, other than to opine that whatever it holds, the economic incentive that was placed on card manufacturers will play a significant role. And if what I have described in fact takes place, and what is to stop it, then for the Trout card to hold (or increase) its value it will need to be perceived as a different kind of 1/1 prototype. Again, maybe it will, but from the purely investment perspective (in contrast to the collecting perspective), IMO it is a very risky investment.

[packs]

The model you're talking about has existed for a very long time. Every modern Bowman product produces a 1/1 for every card in the set. Trout just happens to be Trout, but the same card already exists for every player in every set.

[MattyC]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

How a modern product purchaser/investor looks at things will never make sense to a vintage collector. These guys are about flipping and profiting, not loving a rare card.

Very true. There is a big schism and culture war within the sportscard world these days. Perhaps not as much between vintage vs modern collector as it is between collectors and profiteers (be they flippers, an AH that shills, the chop shops, etc.).

[Shoeless Moe]

Originally Posted by packs

Trout is the greatest player any of us will ever see, unless one of us was lucky enough to be around to see Ruth and is still alive today.

Do I think this card is worth the sale price? No. But I'm also very surprised at the cavalier attitudes people have toward Trout. You will never see another player like him as long as you live, and there has only really been two players in history before him (Ruth and Mantle) who you might have seen.

Why not sit back and enjoy it?

Greatest player (after Bonds) who will NEVER win a World Series, yah I'd agree with that.

And a guy who's career BA when it's all said and done may very well be under .300

That's not the greatest player I've seen.

[maniac_73]

Originally Posted by packs

Trout is the greatest player any of us will ever see, unless one of us was lucky enough to be around to see Ruth and is still alive today.

Do I think this card is worth the sale price? No. But I'm also very surprised at the cavalier attitudes people have toward Trout. You will never see another player like him as long as you live, and there has only really been two players in history before him (Ruth and Mantle) who you might have seen.

Why not sit back and enjoy it?

Trout is a great player no doubt but he's no Barry Bonds or Ken Griffey Jr.

[Delray Vintage]

I applaud the marketing behind these 1 of 1 cards. It certainly helps sell regular cards to people hoping to find gold in a pack. That is fine. Smart. Win the card lottery and retire off the proceeds.

However, as a collector and investor it is not a positive. Forget how great Trout is or what will happen in his future. That is not the issue. If card companies can create marketing “rarities” that feed a speculative frenzy, that fever will likely lead to dissapointment. Why, because speculation almost always leads to collapse. I am not concerned about the buyer of a $4 mill Trout. What about the kids thinking they cannot lose by buying hyped up refractors with their savings?

I accept the dichotomy of card collecting and speculation. The Vegas component unfortunately seems to be where the industry is heading. The vintage world will still do well but without the enormous speculative fever. My 52 Mantle has done well albeit more gradually. Vegas Dave made a big bet and won. Different goals and I accept not everyone cares to patiently collect, hold and enjoy. I want to make money too but my horizon is decades not months.

[packs]

Originally Posted by maniac_73

Trout is a great player no doubt but he's no Barry Bonds or Ken Griffey Jr.

Why not? He's ranked 5th all time in center on baseball reference, one spot ahead of Griffey. And why not Bonds? He's finished second in MVP four times in addition to winning three of them. He's also not cheating.

[clydepepper]

I got this 1-of-1 for a whole lot cheaper.


Even though its condition is further away from a 10 than the Trout, I prefer it.


It's modern, geologically speaking.


1904 Allegheny Card Co Christy Mathewson PSA-5.jpg

[maniac_73]

Originally Posted by packs

Why not? He's ranked 5th all time in center on baseball reference, one spot ahead of Griffey. And why not Bonds? He's finished second in MVP four times in addition to winning three of them. He's also not cheating.

Through 28 years old him and Griffey are neck and neck with Griffey getting the edge on power. We all know the 2nd part of Griffeys career were derailed by injuries so we'll have to see whats in store for the 2nd half of Trouts career.

As for Bonds I don't really have an issue with his PED use as the pitchers used it too which imo just leveled the playing field. Also PED don't make you into the greatest hitter of all time or else everyone would have his Stats. I know others don't agree and that's their opinion which is just as valid as mine. So we will have to agree to disagree on that one

[timzcardz]

I think that I know where the 1 of 1 craze is headed.


The next step is to produce a 1 of 1 card, and then cut it in half and seed the halves into separate packs.

This then provides two (2) halves of 1.

The key would be two acquire both halves to possess the 1 of 1 card, which would make it twice as difficult and therefor even more valuable!




I started out typing this as a joke, but now think there might actually be something to this!

[packs]

Originally Posted by maniac_73

Through 28 years old him and Griffey are neck and neck with Griffey getting the edge on power. We all know the 2nd part of Griffeys career were derailed by injuries so we'll have to see whats in store for the 2nd half of Trouts career.

As for Bonds I don't really have an issue with his PED use as the pitchers used it too which imo just leveled the playing field. Also PED don't make you into the greatest hitter of all time or else everyone would have his Stats. I know others don't agree and that's their opinion which is just as valid as mine. So we will have to agree to disagree on that one

The way I feel about Bonds is that (due to his own doing) you'll never really know how good he was. He won 3 MVP awards and then decided to cheat to win 4 more. I know that PEDs won't turn me into Barry Bonds, but you can clearly see what it turned Barry into and I don't think he gets there without them.

[bigfanNY]

About a year ago we were discussing another Modern superfractor sale. Luis Robert his card sold for $56,000.00. Not in the same leauge as the Four Million Dollar Mike Trout. (Damm thats alot of money). But many including me were asking who is Luis Robert? I read up and bought a couple of his cards. ( kinda like at racetrack following the money) Now I would have to say that the person who bought that card would probably turn a profit!!! Who knew....

[maniac_73]

Originally Posted by timzcardz

I think that I know where the 1 of 1 craze is headed.


The next step is to produce a 1 of 1 card, and then cut it in half and seed the halves into separate packs.

This then provides two (2) halves of 1.

The key would be two acquire both halves to possess the 1 of 1 card, which would make it twice as difficult and therefor even more valuable!




I started out typing this as a joke, but now think there might actually be something to this!

Delete your post before Topps gets the bright idea to cut up 52 mantles and create memorabilia cards from them!

[chriskim]

Originally Posted by maniac_73

Delete your post before Topps gets the bright idea to cut up 52 mantles and create memorabilia cards from them!

They haven't done that to 52 Mantles yet but have done that to T206 Wagners but they do preserve some part of the actual card. You never wonder why there are a few Wagners missing their borders and not the Mantles?

[Exhibitman]

This is a good summary of what is happening:

https://www.sportscollectorsdaily.co...p-crushing-it/

[Ben Yourg]

Is an 11 year old piece of cardboard,with a picture on the front,
worth $4,000,000? 11 years old?A PIECE OF CARDBOARD?
Sorry,this is just my opinion.

[iwantitiwinit]

Someone paying 4 million for that card is nonsense.

[Shoeless Moe]

How do you ship.....or hand deliver, a 4 million dollar card?

And does he give you a big briefcase filled with 4 Mil.

With the Buyers permission you need to video that. Would love to see the exchange, and then where the new owner puts it.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by Shoeless Moe

And a guy who's career BA when it's all said and done may very well be under .300

Like Bonds?

[Tao_Moko]

What "attack" are you talking about? Ignorant? Way to go man, really nice and professional response. Re-read what I wrote. Trout is just not there yet as a player compared to those on the cards mentioned in this thread. He is not even tracking to match a mid-tier HOFer. Otherwise, I just responded to you and stated a fact. Wasn't looking for gratitude. He too was of fighting age during war time. So, that was not a fair comparison to Williams because Williams fought. I could likely bet my farm that Trout never hits .400 and unlikely to end up with comparable career stats. Doesn't mean I think he sucks. This conversation cannot really be had for another ten years or so. Lastly, I agreed that the card was worth what it brought. Simply because it sold for that amount. May not be worth that later, but for now it is. Signing off.

Originally Posted by glynparson

As someone who comes from
A gold star marine family I thank you for your service but this attack on mike trout is beyond ignorant. And yes ted was a great patriot but he was also an asshole to many of his fans. They didn’t call him the spitter because he was a nice guy. And he was very arrogant wouldn’t even recognize the crowds appreciation after his final hr. Yes was an amazing person in many ways but also an asshole in many. I have never heard anything but compliments on Mr. trout and his interactions with fans. Military service is honorable but that doesn’t mean you are a better person simply for having done it. And I hate to break it but very few people collect cards of military heroes compared to those of athletic heroes.