Pennant framing questions

[thetahat]

I didn't want to gum up the "pennant guys" thread with this, so I thought I'd make it separate. Over the last couple weeks I bought my first two already-framed pennants. I collect primarily to display, which means I don't really care for frames that take up a lot of wall space. But I couldn't pass up these two based on the deals I got. The '55 WS pennant was dying on the vine in an REA auction, and the Ebbets pennant is a condition upgrade for me (I have two others in cloth that show some mild discoloration), was a reasonable price even without the frame, and might be one of my 3-4 favorites in strong condition.

I intend to keep the WS pennant in its frame but may crack open the Ebbets pennant, perhaps to sell the frame separately or to frame another pennant that I will sell. I'd prefer to put Ebbets on my wall in a cheap pennant holder. Here are my questions, realizing that your answers may not pertain to these two in question but others with which you have experience:

1. How much do such frames/framing jobs cost? Both are double matted, and seemingly well done. I don't really have a frame of reference to gauge it.

2. Are frames easy to disassemble and put back together? The backing of both is brown paper. I'll have to replace that. Not sure about the inside.

3. For those who have bought pennants already framed: How likely do you think it is that the pennant is glued to the backing? (This is me being too dumb to think to ask the seller. I did just ask the Ebbets seller, as I have the option to return.) I have looked closely for threads holding it up but don't see any, and the pennant is not pressed against the glass.

Again, you can't know for sure the specifics of these two so I guess I am just seeking some general input. Thanks!

[ooo-ribay]

Framing is expensive. I wouldn’t doubt both those jobs ran $200+. Maybe $300+.

If you just want to get the pennant(s) out, that should be do-able. Actually disassembling the frame would be tough.

[rlevy]

Originally Posted by thetahat

1. How much do such frames/framing jobs cost? Both are double matted, anseemingly well done. I don't really have a frame of reference to gauge it.

2. Are frames easy to disassemble and put back together? The backing of both is brown paper. I'll have to replace that. Not sure about the inside.

3. For those who have bought pennants already framed: How likely do you think it is that the pennant is glued to the backing? (This is me being too dumb to think to ask the seller. I did just ask the Ebbets seller, as I have the option to return.) I have looked closely for threads holding it up but don't see any, and the pennant is not pressed against the glass.

Again, you can't know for sure the specifics of these two so I guess I am just seeking some general input. Thanks!

That framing is pretty pricey, I think Rob is correct that they would run $200-300, maybe more. It also depends on the glass/ plexiglass used. If it's museum quality anti-glare and u/v protection, the acrylic alone could run $100+. If it's just regular glass, it is a lot cheaper.

When you say disassemble, I assume you mean remove the backing and the pennants, and not actually take the frame itself apart. The brown paper is glued to the back of the frame, and is there to keep dust from getting in, and can easily be removed. The matting should be held in place by framing points, little metal sharp pieces, that can be removed with a screwdriver or needlenose pliers (just wiggle them out). They can be reused, but it is much easier to reinsert them if you have the proper tool. If you use pliers, just make sure you use a towel to protect the outside of the frame. And my guess is that the pennants may be mounted with some double sided tape, unless you can see tiny stitches somewhere.

Rick

[perezfan]

Greg-

They are either glued, taped or stitched to the matting (if pennant is not touching the glass). I've taken them apart on occasion, and would have to say the bad surprises outnumber the good.

I guess many framers never envisioned these pennants to be removed at a future date. Some are permanently adhered with glue or tape that grabs/rips the felt severely. Others are taped on, but with a less intrusive (less sticky) tape. These can often be removed with little-to-no damage.

Pennants that are glued on are the toughest. When separating them from the mat, try to be sure you leave less felt behind than cardboard. It's really tough to separate the two.

Stitching with a fine thread does the least damage, and sometimes it's really hard to see the thread. So there's at least a chance they will be easy to remove. Best of luck!

[thetahat]

Guys ... thanks for feedback. I’ll keep you posted on what I learn from my inquiries. The Ebbets pennant can be returned; the WS pennant has the framer’s name on the back and I reached out to them, too.

[ooo-ribay]

P.S. You mentioned replacing the brown paper. It’s really not essential; just a finishing touch from a professional framer, IMO.

[conor912]

I wouldn't be surprised if that WS pennant was a $400+ frame job. I'm a big fan of nice frame jobs for paper items, but for pennants I have been very happy with these $30 handmade frames I got on Etsy.

[scooter729]

It's probably hard to see in this pic, but when I got this 1912 pennant framed, I had them use some strong thread to loop around the tassles to hold them in place. It's all framed with no glue or anything, and totally can be disassembled and remain in its original state if desired. Photo corners are used at the other end to hold the tips in place.

A decent frame store should be able to frame a nice odd-shaped piece in such a way so as to not damage it and allow for it to be removed from framing at a later date if so desired.

[thetahat]

This was the response from the seller, he runs a coin/collectibles brick-and-mortar business in NYC and has a couple dozen or so pennants for sale similarly framed... so I will say it’s a legit merchant..

“We send it to an archivist who has a special archival adhesive meant for this process. It's on the reverse of the pennant and it comes right off without any damage to the felt. PH neutral, acid free etc....“

I have no experience with archival adhesives. I asked to be put it touch with the archivist ....

Also thanks for the pics, guys, I like them!

[scooter729]

Originally Posted by thetahat

This was the response from the seller, he runs a coin/collectibles brick-and-mortar business in NYC and has a couple dozen or so pennants for sale similarly framed... so I will say it’s a legit merchant..

“We send it to an archivist who has a special archival adhesive meant for this process. It's on the reverse of the pennant and it comes right off without any damage to the felt. PH neutral, acid free etc....“

I have no experience with archival adhesives. I asked to be put it touch with the archivist ....

Also thanks for the pics, guys, I like them!

Definitely sounds like the right answer - archival tape can be used for this purpose, and is the right way to do it.

[jsage]

The pennants below were all framed by the same company.
Cost was $225 per item.
Jerry Sage

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by conor912

I wouldn't be surprised if that WS pennant was a $400+ frame job. I'm a big fan of nice frame jobs for paper items, but for pennants I have been very happy with these $30 handmade frames I got on Etsy.

I like those! Dirt cheap.

[JayZim13]

Jerry, Great pennants deserve nice framing. Good job

[steve B]

The cost and potential gluing is why I do my own framing.

Years ago we sent one of my sisters posters from an art exhibit to be framed, and the place wrinkled and wrecked it in the attempt to dry mount it.
Despite promises to replace it, they ended up doing nothing at all.

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by steve B

The cost and potential gluing is why I do my own framing.

Years ago we sent one of my sisters posters from an art exhibit to be framed, and the place wrinkled and wrecked it in the attempt to dry mount it.
Despite promises to replace it, they ended up doing nothing at all.

Yep... those factors, and simply leaving a rare/expensive (often one of a kind) pennant with them for days/weeks at a time just scares me. I have never been able to bring myself to do it. Not to mention how much these fancy custom framing projects cut into the pennant budget!

[Bignoff]

After the prices I'm hearing, I'm feeling fortunate to have got my over sized pennant framed for around $350

[MK]

Originally Posted by Bignoff

After the prices I'm hearing, I'm feeling fortunate to have got my over sized pennant framed for around $350

This is the best framed pennant I have ever seen. For $350 it was a bargain IMO.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by Bignoff

After the prices I'm hearing, I'm feeling fortunate to have got my over sized pennant framed for around $350

That's really nice. I really like the team matboard.

[thetahat]

UPDATE: So I cracked open the Dodgers Ebbets pennant. Came out fine, tape was used but it was archival take that came off without any damage at all, zero loss of felt. I know it’s a waste of an expensive frame job but I had no room for it.

So now I have a frame to unload ... maybe will try to sell seperate or package when it comes time to part ways with my collection ...

[perezfan]

That's great news Greg...

Glad it came apart with no issues. Gorgeous pennant!

What about the 1955 pennant? Do you plan to do the same, or will you keep it framed? Someone sunk lots of money into that one!

[thetahat]

Originally Posted by perezfan

That's great news Greg...

Glad it came apart with no issues. Gorgeous pennant!

What about the 1955 pennant? Do you plan to do the same, or will you keep it framed? Someone sunk lots of money into that one!

Mark ... I’m keeping that one in the frame because I already have one of these pennants, and also no other pennant will fit in it!