T206 Young

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Posted By: jamie

Well thanks to a couple board members I lost my transaction with my cy young card.... obviously I am dumb for thinking I could trust baord members and posting details of it on a thread... but after speaking with the seller... I specifically want to thank

Sean Besser Hank [hanksta_3@yahoo.com]

The board member who contacted Ebay and threatened the seller into refunding my money and listing the card on ebay.... he explained that sean offered him alot more money than what I paid.. and sean notified ebay and threatened unless the card goes up for sale in a couple weeks the seller would have his account in jepordy...

good to know board members stab each other in the back...

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Posted By: leon

this is going to go over like a turd in a wading pool.....

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Posted By: Sean BH

I never threatened to contact eBay and you know it Jamie, I think he found out what the card is worth and decided it's best to get it graded and sell it.

Grow up.

Sean

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Posted By: Eric

N/A

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Damn, Sean, is that how you roll?

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Posted By: Jamie

I think we can agree on one thing... you dont send payment to someone for a card at 534pm.... and then get your payment refunded at 1:05pm the next day... that in any language is BUll SH::T


which is what happened bacuse of a thread I started asking about its authenticity and if the back hurt or helped the vaule... someone from this site reached the seller... and sean he read me your signature.. that little

SB
DH

you do so.. .. what ever im over it.. just dont see how getting a seller to give money back to a buyer and breaking up a sale can be anything but frowned upon.. big lesson learned... this board is different than I thought

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Posted By: John

So someone offered more money to a seller on the side than you offered a seller on the side?

This is sort of like Hitler busting Stalin’s balls over being a bad guy…

Also I really don’t think Sean did any of the above short of perhaps emailing the seller and offering more money which is no worse or better than how you were trying to obtain the item he was just playing by the rules you set at that point. After all he amoung others (not me) were watching the auction as well.

The good news is if the above is true the seller will now realize the full potential of the item and everyone will get a fair shot at the card end of story.

P.S. Jamie nothing from stopping you from bidding on the card when it comes up. Just now it will be at a fair market value, which is ironically what you asked about the first time. I guess now we all will know exactly what the fair market value is if gets relisted.

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Posted By: John

this is going to go over like a turd in a wading pool..... LOL Leon

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Posted By: ali_lapoint

why would you break up his transaction?

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Posted By: Sean BH

I didn't send payment to him or was ever refunded for any purchase, do you want to check my paypal account? After the card was being shipped to you like you said in your post I told him he could have sold it for more money, but he still insisted it was going to be graded and he never sold it.

The seller probably saw the value in the card and told Jamie a story that I threatened him, so he can canceled the sale so he could sell the card for an even higher price. One thing is eBay pulled the auction (because it's on the list of 12 cards that need to be graded to sell), he didn't end it early.

sdbh

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

I think we need those self-pitying Oompa Loompas to work this out.

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Posted By: John

So I guess now would be a really bad time to post my new pickup in the pickup thread.



P.S. I'm busting balls for those who are slow on the take, I dont have the card I will have to bid on it when it's relisted to win it novel idea...huh?

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Posted By: Anthony S.

lol

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Posted By: Sean BH

I knew it! Trying to play a buddy buddy with me today.

I need a beer.

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Posted By: peter ullman

This kind of thing happens all of the time...and it's unfortunate you're disappointed Jamie...but such is life. This hobby has been filled with cut throat unscrupulous characters since day one...and is also filled with lots of friendly, caring individuals who help out their fellow man.

Since you tried to cut a deal on the side, Jamie, which I personally think is bullsh%t no matter who does it...Sean did no wrong in countering. I've had this happen to me...and I know it sucks.

pete in mn

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Posted By: Rob D.

Look at the bright side: At least it wasn't an autographed T206 Cy Young.

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Posted By: fkw

Heck, If you really wanted that "damaged" card I would have offered more money than the others..... email him back and offer more.

Top bid wins.

If you stick with this board longer you will see this exact thing happens 2-3 times a year it seems. If you find a steal, keep quiet until you have the cardboard in hand, they show it off. Bragging about shortchanging a seller (off eBay transaction) will only wake up the jealous collectors with bigger wallets than you.

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Posted By: brock

Ain't it if you pay for an item, its yours. I dont think the seller has the right to back out.

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Posted By: Iggy...

I would venture to say that a few beers probably started this "blunder" way back in 1909. Darn beer! It is at the root of all evil...

-Lovely Day...

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Posted By: fkw

off eBay transaction = no rules

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Posted By: John

Frank good point...I would also like to add.

on eBay transaction = no rules

As of late...

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Posted By: Jim VB

Rob D.,

<<At least it wasn't an autographed T206 Cy Young.>>

Could be if the new owner sends it to Coaches Corner. I hear they have a Cy signing special next month.

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Posted By: Sean BH

Like I said, I think the seller found out the value of the card and wanted to find a way to back out of the deal with Jamie, and he decided to tell him that I threatened him by saying I would tell eBay.

Hop Devil is tasty beer.

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Posted By: ali_lapoint

i have a question related to the card but not this side dealing argument. why does a miscut back command a premium while a generally miscut card is de-valued? i wouldn't pay a premium for an ugly back like that.

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Posted By: Anthony S.

When the miscut is that severe, there are certain collectors who will pay a premium for it. The fact that the back in question is also upside-down makes it all the more appealling to them (and others).

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Posted By: Iggy...

Obviously Mr. Ali, you don't drink beer! That back is spectacular and will always command a premium.

-Lovely Day...

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Posted By: ali_lapoint

must be butt guys. im more interested in whats in front myself.

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Posted By: Jim VB

jamie,

I know you think this sucks, but it's the same thing that you did. Others were watching the auction. Had snipe bids set on the auction. And you jumped the line and got the seller to shut it down. Who holds responsibility for that? The seller? The first buyer (you)? Subsequent buyers?

You posted asking what a "fair" price was. If I remember right, the answer was about $1000. So your $300 wasn't close to "fair". You were just taking advantage of an unknowledgeable seller.

You, naively, talked about it before you had the card in your hand and someone made the seller lots smarter.

Educating sellers in this manner makes them less likely to close auctions early again. That makes it "fair" to everyone.

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Posted By: jamie

john,
I feel I own you an appoligy for getting crazy before... loosing the sale on such a cool card really sux.... its wasnt the money.. i was not going to sell it.. i just wanted it to be part of the 520 that im working on.. im stuck at 519.. but hopefully soon Ill get the last one..

anyway enough on this and ill just bid on it when its up like everyone else..

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Posted By: John

“why does a miscut back command a premium while a generally miscut card is de-valued? i wouldn't pay a premium for an ugly back like that.”

I’ll take a stab at answering that, print oddities some folks collect these and some folks hate them it’s really a personal preference. Also when you get far enough along in the set you run out of things to buy cards you once passed on now you have a new appreciation for. Cards like the above are an insight into the printing process and history of the set and also give the collector an interesting item as compared to other normal cards. Also these can be quite rare as you think the same way the folks who printed these cards did, they didn’t want these getting out either hence the few that did escape can command a premium to the right collector.

Hope this helps.

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Posted By: jamie

ps: for the last time ebay ended the auction as an raw t206 cy young is under a list of cards that need to be graded if sold on ebay... here is the email from ebay to show you all what the heck im talking about...( i was selling my raw cy young to get extra money)sent to me by ebay:



Subject: Re: Recent Actions - Trading Cards (Please Read) (KMM290331052V62449L0KM) Received: May-07-08
From: eBay Customer Support Expires: Jun-06-08

Dear Jamie,

We regret to inform you that we have removed the following listing:

T206 T-206 CY Young Bare Hand Showing card RARE HOF'er

Your listing was removed due to concerns that we had about the
authenticity of the item.

In this particular case, your listing included an ungraded 1909-1911
T206 Cy Young Card that is reportedly favored by counterfeiters.

Please understand that we are not in the position to verify the
authenticity of trading cards and, as such, we cannot say for certain
whether or not this particular card is authentic however, due to recent
concerns with counterfeit trading cards, eBay now requires this card to
be professionally graded prior to being listed.

At this point, in order to prevent a possible removal of your card
again, we suggest that you have it graded by a professional
authentication company.

Here is a list of authentication companies that eBay recommends in this
case:

http://pages.ebay.com/help/community/auth-overview.html

Also, for future reference, here is a list of trading cards that eBay
currently requires to be authenticated or graded prior to listing:

1. 1979-1980 Wayne Gretzky Rookie Card (O-Pee-Chee and Topps #18)
2. 1966-1967 Bobby Orr Rookie Card (Topps #35)
3. 1986-1987 Michael Jordan Rookie Card (Fleer #57)
4. 1933 Babe Ruth (Goudey - all four)
5. 1951 Mickey Mantle (Bowman #253)
6. 1985-1986 Mario Lemieux Rookie Card (O-Pee-Chee and Topps #9)
7. 1952 Mickey Mantle (Topps #311)
8. 1909 Honus Wagner (T206)
9. 1933 Lou Gehrig (Goudey)
10. 1909 Ty Cobb (T206)
11. 1909 Cy Young (T206)
12. 1909 Eddie Plank (T206)
13. 1988 Maxx Dale Earnhardt

If you are not listing one of these high profile trading cards then you
would not be required to have them authenticated or graded.

Furthermore, please understand that this action is intended to be
mutually beneficial, considering that a graded Cy Young Card, regardless
of condition, generally, sells for much more than one that has not been
professionally graded.

It was my pleasure to assist you, Jamie, and thank you for your
understanding in this matter.

Sincerely,

Gillespie
eBay Customer Support

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

I just convinced an ebay seller to end this auction and sell it to me for $300. Do you think I can flip this for $400? Thanks in advance. (Sorry, couldn't resist)

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Posted By: John

Jamie no need to apologize no hard feelings guy. You’ll get that last card BTW.

As for the above Young card I agree very cool card sucks you missed out but it’s not over yet bid and bid to win.

As for ending things early I think everyone knows my stance, I think I’m not the only one who feels this way but I could be wrong.

I also give you credit for making a play for the card just don’t get bent out of shape over this and be man enough to call it what it is an honest backdoor play to get a cool card. I may disagree with your practice which I can do, but I’ll at least respect your honesty in the matter.

That’s all I’m saying which I think certain folks don’t understand not necessarily you.

Cheers brother, now go finish that damn T206 set already!!!!!!!!!!!!

Who do you need anyway???

P.S. I do think you were a little unfair on Sean he did nothing more than you did per say...IMO

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Posted By: John

Jeff; wow you got ripped off! I wouldn't go any higher than $30 bucks on an eyesore like that! Yuck!

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Posted By: jamie

Jeff
maybe you should check my last post about ebay ending the auction...

"I just convinced an ebay seller to end this auction and sell it to me"

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Posted By: Mark

I can see why a mis-cut back would be attractive to many collectors... it is an oddity and a rare factory-issued variation. Those who collect stamps all know how much that old inverted airplane postage stamp goes for.

But it did appear that the bottom of this particular card was trimmed. Unfortunately, Wonka's scan just cut off the bottom portion of the card, which looked very suspect in the original picture posted (which is now gone). I guess the trimming might not matter as much as normal (on an anomaly like this), but it definitely appeared to be there...

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Posted By: jamie

Marquard follow through is the last one I need... taking my time on it.. as i wanted to upgrad some of the crappy ones and have it be ready to show the board when its all done.. one day soon hopefully in the next couple weeks

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

For the record, I am re-reading Sun Tzu's "The Art of War" for the umpteenth time. From now on, anything goes with these auctions. You've been warned.

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Posted By: John

Sun Tzu's "The Art of War" I have the book on tape version read by Gary Coleman I agree Jeff powerful stuff!

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Posted By: jamie

Gary coleman... haha "what chu talking about willis"

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

What Tzu Talkin' 'Bout Willis?

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Posted By: Craig W

Jamie,

Thank you for posting the list of 13 cards eBay requires to be graded.

Best regards,
Craig

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Posted By: Iggy...

In regards to the "13" cards that ebay requires to get graded. Sometimes a few get through the maze without cancellation. A few month's back, I purchased an ungraded 1933 Goudey Lou Gehrig card on ebay. It is now sitting in a PSA 1 slab.

-Lovely Day...

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Posted By: Jason Silvey

I don't know how the "policy" has been in effect, but I purchased two ungraded T206 Cobbs about 2 months ago. An ungraded Red Cobb sold just last night. None of these were "being sold as reprints per ebay policy."

Jason

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Posted By: Matt

Iggy - It would be trivial for them to put a search on "1933 Gehrig" and spend 30 seconds looking through it each day to see if any ungraded are for sale. Therefore, I believe, that they only pull a card when they have been notified to do so by another ebayer.

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Posted By: Iggy...

Okay, Matt. That makes sense... Appreciate the wisdom.

Of course, if I were to read Sun Tzu's "The Art of War".... I would notify ebay, in the event I saw a real ungraded T206 Wagner. Have ebay end the auction early and then strike a side deal with the seller.

-Lovely Day...

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Posted By: Matt

Iggy - Let's hope none of the board members would stoop that low.

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Posted By: PC

Jamie's transaction was NOT a backdoor deal. Ebay took the auction down, and then Jamie contacted the seller. The card was already off eBay when he made his offer. Maybe it was a low offer, but his offer was accepted.

The only foul play here was the interference after Jamie's deal was struck -- that, and the seller backing-out of the transaction.

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Posted By: Alan

Good one Leon !!!

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Posted By: JK

"off eBay transaction = no rules"

That statement is factually and legally incorrect. If you strike a deal off ebay you and the seller have formed a binding oral contract for the purchase of the card. As a practical matter, however, it would not be cost efficient to pursue the issue legally under most circumstances.