Closed Auction: ebay M116 Wagner

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Posted By: Matt

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=290173275939&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=019

Based on the thread a few weeks ago on the value of M116s (selling for about 1/2 SCD prices) and based on the sale prices of M116s from the same seller in the past, I figured the Wagner in that condition should end up at around $300. Why did it end over $700? Is it the blue version and my eyes are deceiving me?

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Posted By: Al C.risafulli

Because a couple of people, including me, set high snipes thinking they'd have no problem winning the card.

I didn't get it; I was the underbidder.

-Al

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Posted By: Mark T

Have the "Over 300 subjects" on the back. Although a rough back but still...

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Posted By: boxingcardman

A ton of collectors would see the card front and get over the back rather easily.

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Posted By: Matt

If you check his past auctions he's had a number of difficult HOFers in the same condition from that set and all have been in line with expectations based on VCP results. Someone from this board won the Joe Wood for less then $200 if I remember and the front was as good, if not better then this one.

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Posted By: Mark T

I think the Joe Wood went for $600 range...

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Posted By: Matt

It's not in the closed auctions anymore, but someone on the board bought it, so that can be verified. The W Johnson went for $233 and the Lajoie went for $173 and the Johnson books for almost double the Wagner.

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Posted By: Mark T

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290166355997

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Posted By: Matt

Thanks for diggin up the link. So Perhaps the price guide is what is out of whack? The Wood and Wagner went for 75% of their VG values while the Johnson went for 15% of VG. I know the front condition differs slightly, but they would all grade out at 10s or 20s.

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Posted By: Mark T

are always out of wack. The M116 Joe Wood is a tough card to get in any condition. I know because i put in a snipe on the Wood and thought it would be an easy win but alas...NOT.

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Posted By: brian

no, that isn't the blue background, it's the pastel. M116 Wagners are going up in price so fast, soon even the poor condition ones will be out of financial reach for most collectors. There was a PSA-3 with a Buy-It-Now that was snatched up on Oct. 25 as soon as it was listed at $2200

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Posted By: Tim Newcomb

Ha! A Wood for ~$200-- I wish. My snipe of $676 on the Wood made me the high underbidder on this one

There have been numerous N54 comments about the M116 Wood in the past, if you want to search for them. It's simple-- this card is tough to find and high demand-- its book/SMR values haven't been close to reality for a long time.

Sure, all these back-damaged cards would grade as 10s and 20s, but since when are the so-called graded values gospel with cards like these? We're not talking about Goudey Ruths here, where you can find them in any grade anytime. The people who are buying these don't care about what the SMR says-- they are trying to complete a set or to grab an affordable A-list HOFer before the prices go completely nuts... if they haven't already.

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Posted By: Paul

I won the Wood and am very happy with it. I think I finished 3rd for the Wagner. I forgot to bid on the Johnson.

I do think there is a world of difference between the Johnson and the Wagner / Wood based on the creasing on the front of the Johnson. So I wouldn't have paid nearly as much for the Johnson as Wagner or Wood, even if I had remembered to bid. Also, I'm not sure what the price guides say, but I have to believe that Wagner typically sells for more than Johnson. I'm not sure where Wood fits into that equation because his card is rarely available so there's not a lot of data out there.

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Posted By: Mark T

I tried a snipe on that wood you won because the front is very, very nice. Also, He rarely comes up for sale in M116 set. I know there are a lot of collectors waiting for a card like his to come up for sale.

The Johnson is seen much more often and lately the Wagner has been offered a lot. In my opinion, the M116 wood is one of the best looking vintage baseball cards out there.

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Posted By: Anonymous

there's a PSA 4 wagner for sale now...

http://cgi.ebay.com/M116-SPORTING-LIFE-HANS-WAGNER-PSA-4-PASTEL-BACKGROUND_W0QQitemZ180174475254QQihZ008QQcategory Z31718QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

$1100 currently high bid

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Posted By: JK

I know that not many of us are going to miss this auction, but what is the point of posting an open auction in this thread - if you wanted to make a point regarding the closing price on the card, you should have waited until the auction ended to post.

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Posted By: Anonymous

I'm not interested in the card... however with all the talk about the previous one... i just wanted to bring it to everyones attention so nobody misses it.

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Posted By: JK

That's my point - there is an unwritten rule on this board about outing auctions. It tends to drive up the price and piss people off.

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Posted By: JC

I understand there is going to be one offered on ebay soon from Harold Shigley's collection and it will be offered raw ungraded, although I also hear that it is only in VG condition. Apparently the grandson has an aversion to grading companies after the grader accidentally damaged some of the cards from a submission several years ago when removing them from the card savers. But surely they were insured and he has to be leaving a lot of money on the table by not grading these?

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Posted By: Andrew S.

That is what makes buying raw on eBay so rewarding for a collector and financially also. I sent a question to that seller a while back wondering why they weren't slabbed and got this answer:

Hello Andrew,

There was a very short window of opportunity for my grandfather and uncle to get their collections graded since they died in 1992 and 1994 respectively.

In early 2003, I decided to pull some of the raw ungraded cards out of safe-deposit and begin sending them in for grading. The first submission went well and I was pleased with the grades. However, my elation was short-lived when I received the second batch back with unacceptably low grades, including a valuable Lew Alcindor rookie card destroyed during the grading process.

After that fiasco, I decided not to send any more of the cards to grading companies, especially after reading that PSA had received the lowest possible grade from the Better Business Bureau due to the company failing to return items sent in for authentication, and in some cases denying that they ever received the item, even after being shown signature confirmation. But the worst thing that I read at the Better Business Bureau website was that lower quality cards had occasionally been switched for the higher quality ones that had been submitted before returning them to the customer.

The cards that my uncle and grandfather did manage to send to grading companies before their deaths are some of the first cards ever put into slabs. All of this has been a learning process for me since inheriting all of these things. Wish I had my uncle and grandfather here for advice.
Thank you for your interest.

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Posted By: JK

"Harold Shigley's Collection"

Can someone provide me with the ID of the seller who is auctioning this material. Thanks.

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Posted By: Jim VB

JK,

I doubt it. No one wants to out the auction. (Just kidding.)

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Posted By: brian

the seller ID is vespertin. I've won several of their auctions over the past year or so. The last one I won was listed as excellent and came back from PSA in a 6 holder. Right now they only have one card on ebay and don't list very often.

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Posted By: JK

Thanks Brian.

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Posted By: DMcD

I bought a couple of T3s from vespertin this past summer. As a rule I avoid raw cards on eBay from sellers I don't know but the cards were scarce so I took a chance. Besides there weren't the usual God Bless Grandpa red flags and some savvy N54ers were on the bidders' list. Long story short. Paul Davis is a mensch ; cards described as "excellent" were at least that and are blazing standouts in my otherwise old cardboard T3 set. I would not hesitate to deal with Paul again.

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Posted By: JC

I first met Harold about 30 years ago at a coin auction in Chicago. Hard to forget because he was high bidder on nearly every gold coin that came up for sale. Found out he was also a sportscard and autograph collector and later bought an Alexander Cartwright signed calling card from him (he had two of them!) For those who don't know what an old fashioned calling card is, they were an equivalent of the modern business card. Back in the old days, notable persons would leave one signed on your door if you weren't home when they stopped by. Got it authenticated several years ago and then sold it for quite a sum. Have never met the grandson. Harold was a little mysterious. He gave me an address that turned out to be a remailing service when I bought the Cartwright card and that's how we corresponded. Never did find out where he actually lived.

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Posted By: brian

you're welcome JK.
I figured everyone already knew about that seller. Last year, I asked a few questions about the grandfather and when I won a raw near mint Pete Rose rookie card from him, he sent along a printout with some photos and information that is really interesting. It says that Shigley became the Ohio chess champion of 1920 while still attending college and upset a grandmaster named Irving Spero. It also says he appeared in an early issue of both Beckett and Tuff Stuff and a book about his life is in the works. Also attached to it was a list and photos of premium items that have been sold from the collection over the last 10 years which includes some incredible stuff....Marilyn Monroe personal items, Elvis personal items...stuff from Thomas Edison's labratory, T206 Wagner, Plank, Magie, etc. But best of all, my Pete Rose rookie came back in a PSA-7 holder