The Opportunity

[Mark17]

There is a void right now which creates a great opportunity for honest, reputable card dealers. It isn't a new concept either, but to my knowledge it hasn't been fully applied to baseball cards yet. It should be - it would go a long way towards restoring confidence with buyers, as well as being a way to benefit the honest card dealers who want to make the effort to gain and maintain trust in the hobby community.

It's the Letter of Authenticity concept. It's used all the time with game used items. Right now I've got a folder of LOAs for bats and jerseys in my collection, issued by Mears, John Taube (PSA/DNA), Tim Byington (HOF Bats), Kim Stigall (Ballpark Heroes), Jim Rantz (Twins minor league director) and a couple others. They describe what alterations have been done to the items, if any (cracked/repaired handles, other bat markings, whether jerseys are all original or partially restored, etc.) Most of these LOAs have pictures of the item, for positive identification.

The LOAs are only as good as the issuer, in terms of how well I trust their ability to assess an item accurately. In the above cases, I have very high regard for all those peoples' ability and integrity, and therefore, I have confidence buying from them, and so will the next owner of those items, should I decide to sell - because of those LOAs and the people who created them.

So, why don't the top card dealers begin issuing their own LOAs for the high-end cards they sell? Frankly I trust guys like Greg Morris, Chandy Greenholt, etc. much more than any TPG right now. For instance, the LOA could have high res scans of the card front and back, precise measurements as to size (and whether they fit within known tolerances), and whatever other details can be determined. For counterfeit detection, some equipment might be useful: a tool to measure card thickness accurately, black or ultra-violet lighting, microscope, high sensitivity scale to measure weight, and so on.) Not every card dealer would likely have/want/need all of those tools, but the more analysis the could do on the cards they sell, the higher the confidence level would be.

And after they have completed their analysis and created their LOA, they could, if they wanted, send it to a TPG for a second opinion and to get the card slabbed. Think of the boost in confidence that would give the buyer, to have their card authenticated by an honest dealer AND a TPG.... and the resulting value add that would bring.

Personally, I'd rather see the TPG concept just go away, and have the major dealers help return us to the grading scale the hobby grew up with: Poor, Fair, Good, Very Good, Excellent, Mint. And the in-betweens, like Good-Very Good and Excellent-Mint.

The big mistake the hobby is making right now is that authentication has been left in the hands of a few TPG, who have shown they aren't as reliable as we've wanted to believe. Wouldn't it be far better to put our authentication trust in the hands of people who have already earned our trust, and at the same time, give them a chance to further grow their good reputations and customer base?

Sure, it wouldn't prevent card doctors, but it would create some safe places where we could buy cards with added confidence, and have assurances that the confidence we have would carry with the card when we sell, and when the next guy sells, and so on. Because the high res pictures on that LOA would always need to match the card exactly, and that could be determined long into the future by anyone. The LOA issuers could keep them online, so people could verify the LOA they are receiving has not itself been altered.

I want to see the hobby become safer and stronger, and I want the good guys (honest dealers, honest collectors) to win.

[mq711]

Great idea, and they could add card size and centering dimensions to the certificate.

[buymycards]

This will be a great opportunity for the shady characters to cheat and scam their customers. The LOA's will be as reliable as a PSA 10 slab.

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by buymycards

This will be a great opportunity for the shady characters to cheat and scam their customers. The LOA's will be as reliable as a PSA 10 slab.

An LOA from a reputable dealer will have value. A LOA from a shady character will have none. Same as with GU stuff.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Mark17

An LOA from a reputable dealer will have value. A LOA from a shady character will have none. Same as with GU stuff.

The problem I see is how would people know who the reputable dealer is. There is one seller on your list that the only way they sold something authentic was by accident.

[MULLINS5]

I agree that there should be more offered for higher end. I don't think, though, that PSA will offer more for the same price, and for the what they charge to authenticate and grade higher end I'd already expect a full report on the item.

I've read the high fees are for insurance reasons...but there's only about $800k in reserve for payouts. If that's the case, where's the money?

[chalupacollects]

Originally Posted by Mark17

There is a void right now which creates a great opportunity for honest, reputable card dealers. It isn't a new concept either, but to my knowledge it hasn't been fully applied to baseball cards yet. It should be - it would go a long way towards restoring confidence with buyers, as well as being a way to benefit the honest card dealers who want to make the effort to gain and maintain trust in the hobby community.

It's the Letter of Authenticity concept. It's used all the time with game used items. Right now I've got a folder of LOAs for bats and jerseys in my collection, issued by Mears, John Taube (PSA/DNA), Tim Byington (HOF Bats), Kim Stigall (Ballpark Heroes), Jim Rantz (Twins minor league director) and a couple others. They describe what alterations have been done to the items, if any (cracked/repaired handles, other bat markings, whether jerseys are all original or partially restored, etc.) Most of these LOAs have pictures of the item, for positive identification.

The LOAs are only as good as the issuer, in terms of how well I trust their ability to assess an item accurately. In the above cases, I have very high regard for all those peoples' ability and integrity, and therefore, I have confidence buying from them, and so will the next owner of those items, should I decide to sell - because of those LOAs and the people who created them.

So, why don't the top card dealers begin issuing their own LOAs for the high-end cards they sell? Frankly I trust guys like Greg Morris, Chandy Greenholt, etc. much more than any TPG right now. For instance, the LOA could have high res scans of the card front and back, precise measurements as to size (and whether they fit within known tolerances), and whatever other details can be determined. For counterfeit detection, some equipment might be useful: a tool to measure card thickness accurately, black or ultra-violet lighting, microscope, high sensitivity scale to measure weight, and so on.) Not every card dealer would likely have/want/need all of those tools, but the more analysis the could do on the cards they sell, the higher the confidence level would be.

And after they have completed their analysis and created their LOA, they could, if they wanted, send it to a TPG for a second opinion and to get the card slabbed. Think of the boost in confidence that would give the buyer, to have their card authenticated by an honest dealer AND a TPG.... and the resulting value add that would bring.

Personally, I'd rather see the TPG concept just go away, and have the major dealers help return us to the grading scale the hobby grew up with: Poor, Fair, Good, Very Good, Excellent, Mint. And the in-betweens, like Good-Very Good and Excellent-Mint.

The big mistake the hobby is making right now is that authentication has been left in the hands of a few TPG, who have shown they aren't as reliable as we've wanted to believe. Wouldn't it be far better to put our authentication trust in the hands of people who have already earned our trust, and at the same time, give them a chance to further grow their good reputations and customer base?

Sure, it wouldn't prevent card doctors, but it would create some safe places where we could buy cards with added confidence, and have assurances that the confidence we have would carry with the card when we sell, and when the next guy sells, and so on. Because the high res pictures on that LOA would always need to match the card exactly, and that could be determined long into the future by anyone. The LOA issuers could keep them online, so people could verify the LOA they are receiving has not itself been altered.

I want to see the hobby become safer and stronger, and I want the good guys (honest dealers, honest collectors) to win.

Who is going to decide who the top dealers are? Not all of them are squeaky clean...

What this hobby needs is an association of dues paying dealers that are vetted by a panel of long time reputable dealers that can provide an endorsement without playing politics...there would need to be pre-requisites for membership for both old time and new dealers and a periodic re-vetting of members to eliminate folks who may have "strayed off the path."

Then the dealer would have the right to issue an "association approved" LOA with security features and a unique number that can be tracked through the associations website...to start with...

This sort of set-up could work...

[steve B]

Originally Posted by chalupacollects

Who is going to decide who the top dealers are? Not all of them are squeaky clean...

What this hobby needs is an association of dues paying dealers that are vetted by a panel of long time reputable dealers that can provide an endorsement without playing politics...there would need to be pre-requisites for membership for both old time and new dealers and a periodic re-vetting of members to eliminate folks who may have "strayed off the path."

Then the dealer would have the right to issue an "association approved" LOA with security features and a unique number that can be tracked through the associations website...to start with...

This sort of set-up could work...

In stamps that's sort of the setup. There are a couple national organizations, US philatelic society, and the American Stamp Dealer Association. The first is more like a national club, and offers authentication, as well as a code of conduct, running a research library, publishing a magazine and probably a few other functions. The second is a dealer organization that also has a code of conduct, and publicizes shows etc as well as having a magazine with articles.
There are also two other authenticators who also grade The Philatelic foundation, and PSE (No relation to collectors universe, but they did try slabbing stamps, which didn't really gain much acceptance)

None of that means that all the members are reliable or even honest, but it does filter out some of the worse ones.
TPG/authentication in that hobby has tiered pricing, but not tiered turnaround times. It takes them as long as it takes to be sure something is what it's claimed to be.

PF did have a scandal in the 1980's, where someone inside with access to the computer system let bad stuff get certificates for a couple dealer he was friends with. They dealt with it decisively, but it took a while to earn back some respect.

There have been a few tries at starting a national card organization, but none have gained much traction.