NonSports Forum

Net54baseball.com
Welcome to Net54baseball.com. These forums are devoted to both Pre- and Post- war baseball cards and vintage memorabilia, as well as other sports. There is a separate section for Buying, Selling and Trading - the B/S/T area!! If you write anything concerning a person or company your full name needs to be in your post or obtainable from it. . Contact the moderator at leon@net54baseball.com should you have any questions or concerns. Enjoy!
Net54baseball.com
Net54baseball.com
T206s on Ebay
Babe Ruth Cards
t206 Ty Cobb
Ty Cobb Cards
Lou Gehrig Cards
Baseball T201-T217
Baseball E90-E107
T205 Cards
Vintage Baseball Postcards
Goudey Cards
Vintage Baseball Memorabilia
Baseball Exhibit Cards
Baseball Strip Cards
Baseball Baking Cards
Sporting News Cards
Play Ball Cards
Joe DiMaggio Cards
Mickey Mantle Cards
Bowman 1951-1955
Football Cards

Go Back   Net54baseball.com Forums > Net54baseball Main Forum - WWII & Older Baseball Cards > Net54baseball Sports (Primarily) Vintage Memorabilia Forum incl. Game Used > Autograph Forum- Primarily Sports

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 10-01-2012, 11:07 AM
JimStinson's Avatar
JimStinson JimStinson is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 1,470
Default The Strange Saga of the Autographed B&W Hall of Fame Plaque Postcards

In the interest of sharing information , thought I'd post this story which I'm asked about often instead of repeating it over and over . Most long time collectors and dealers are aware of it but it still surprises me how many haven't.
In the 1980's I was visiting the Hall of Fame in Cooperstown in the winter. I loved visiting the Hall in the winter because there was never anyone there , there was snow on the ground it was cold and you could walk around inside the HOF and not see a soul, Like being in your own private museum. Anyway I remember on my way out stopping at the gift shop and along with the usual trinkets they sell there were boxes upon boxes of the old Black and White Hall of Fame plaque postcards all in mint condition , There must have been at least a few thousand. I thought they had stopped selling those in the 1950's or 60's so I asked the clerk and she said they had stumbled across the boxes in storage and had just that week put them out for sale.
I walked down the street and into a gift shop and MORE boxes of black and white plaques which they had bought as overflow from the Hall with a slight markup in price and were selling them too.
I always liked the look of those old style plaques displayed with autographs and was going to buy a bundle of them because they were priced pretty cheap but didn't want to jockey them around with me on the airplane so I asked about shipping and was told it was no problem. I enjoyed the rest of my vacation and when I got back home a couple weeks later I called the Hall to place my order and guess what ?......SOLD OUT. I figured there must be some mistake so I called the gift shop down the street and to my surprise they too were SOLD OUT
So I figured since they were priced so reasonably that someone smarter than myself knew a bargain when they saw it and that was that. UNTIL ABOUT A MONTH LATER....................
In those days not EVERYONE was an autograph dealer that sold baseball autographs so I used to get ALOT of mail from people selling their collections. I still do today but back then it was Crazy ! In fact even when I used to do card shows if someone walked in the door with a box of autographs the dealers who were all selling baseball cards would tell them "You got autographs ? Go see Jim"
So now I start getting mail from all over the country with ....you guessed it , Autographed Black and White Hall of Fame Plaque collections , and not just one part of the country , they were coming out of Mississippi, Lousiana, NY, etc etc , complete with photo copies and the signatures looked convincing , many were even inscribed. All from different people that when I called them on the phone and asked them where they got em ...all seemed to have the same thing in common. "My grandfather.....blah, blah, blah"
I tipped off all of the other collectors and dealers I knew who amazingly were all getting the same offers that I was. It was easy to network then.
So Maybe it was just a coincidence that all the Hall's plaques got bought up at exactly the same time as dozens of "Plaque Collections" hit the market. Maybe I am just a cynic
Anyway rumors began swirling about where those things ended up, and one of the stories was that a well known autograph dealer (now out of business) and another well known dealer (now deceased) bought most of them. But it was after that the trail went cold. So probably some well intentioned individual realizing his folly destroyed them all and that was the end of the story. Or Maybe not. But to this day after over 30 years as a collector/dealer I can count on maybe one hand the number of tough signed HOF Black and White plaques I've bought and sold and always tracked the provenance back beyond that day at the Hall of Fame when I looked at ALL THOSE boxes of plaques and asked myself "What would somebody DO with all these ?"
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 10-02-2012, 07:04 AM
RichardSimon's Avatar
RichardSimon RichardSimon is offline
Richard Simon
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: New York City
Posts: 5,425
Default

Sounds like Chapter 9 in the life story of Ron Dross.
He bought them and pulled off a huge scam, nailing a couple of dealers in the process for big bucks.
I still have the photocopies from this scam.
__________________
Sign up & receive my autograph price list. E mail me,richsprt@aol.com, with your e mail. Sports,entertainment,history.
-
Here is a link to my online store. Many items for sale. 10% disc. for 54 members. E mail me first.
www.bonanza.com/booths/richsports
--
"I have never killed a man, but I have read many obituaries with great pleasure."- Clarence Darrow

Last edited by RichardSimon; 10-02-2012 at 07:04 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 10-02-2012, 07:37 AM
JimStinson's Avatar
JimStinson JimStinson is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 1,470
Default JimStinson

I had heard that Dross was involved but I have always suspected it was more than one person , Because some of the forgeries were REALLY convincing and while I will admit the fakes that Dross was cranking out could fool alot of people especially compared to the relatively crude stuff that was floating around back then. Alot of the ones I looked at and still have copies of would fool most people and in fact have !
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 10-02-2012, 09:00 AM
RichardSimon's Avatar
RichardSimon RichardSimon is offline
Richard Simon
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: New York City
Posts: 5,425
Default

I was actively doing New York shows at that time and the 100% consensus in NY was that Dross was the one and only forger though he had a front man selling them for him. I cannot remember the name of the front man but I know of at least three New York area dealers who bought this crap. I bought some of them, sight unseen, with a money back guarantee. I bought them from one of those New York dealers but as soon as I saw them I returned them and got my money back.
__________________
Sign up & receive my autograph price list. E mail me,richsprt@aol.com, with your e mail. Sports,entertainment,history.
-
Here is a link to my online store. Many items for sale. 10% disc. for 54 members. E mail me first.
www.bonanza.com/booths/richsports
--
"I have never killed a man, but I have read many obituaries with great pleasure."- Clarence Darrow

Last edited by RichardSimon; 10-02-2012 at 09:01 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 02-27-2018, 02:09 AM
BERTO BERTO is offline
MICHAEL
member
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: NYC
Posts: 6
Default The front man

Quote:
Originally Posted by richardsimon View Post
i was actively doing new york shows at that time and the 100% consensus in ny was that dross was the one and only forger though he had a front man selling them for him. I cannot remember the name of the front man but i know of at least three new york area dealers who bought this crap. I bought some of them, sight unseen, with a money back guarantee. I bought them from one of those new york dealers but as soon as i saw them i returned them and got my money back.
for ron dross....was "bobby moore". He disappeared at the exact same time ron did, ron's dead...for along time. I was close friends with a lawyer who told me that, as he had handled dross's divorce also. Dross even gave the lawyer a few fake balls which i saw in the guys office and i told him they were fake. Thats when he told me he got them from dross and i said....oh, boyyyy...lol....

Thats how i found out ron had died....this happened in 1997 or so.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 02-27-2018, 10:57 AM
RichardSimon's Avatar
RichardSimon RichardSimon is offline
Richard Simon
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: New York City
Posts: 5,425
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BERTO View Post
for ron dross....was "bobby moore". He disappeared at the exact same time ron did, ron's dead...for along time. I was close friends with a lawyer who told me that, as he had handled dross's divorce also. Dross even gave the lawyer a few fake balls which i saw in the guys office and i told him they were fake. Thats when he told me he got them from dross and i said....oh, boyyyy...lol....

Thats how i found out ron had died....this happened in 1997 or so.
"I have never killed a man, but I have read many obituaries with great pleasure."- Clarence Darrow
__________________
Sign up & receive my autograph price list. E mail me,richsprt@aol.com, with your e mail. Sports,entertainment,history.
-
Here is a link to my online store. Many items for sale. 10% disc. for 54 members. E mail me first.
www.bonanza.com/booths/richsports
--
"I have never killed a man, but I have read many obituaries with great pleasure."- Clarence Darrow
Reply With Quote
Reply



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Visited the Alabama Sports Hall of Fame dwinters Net54baseball Sports (Primarily) Vintage Memorabilia Forum incl. Game Used 8 08-11-2009 02:38 PM
Baseball Hall of Fame & Operation Bullpen sports-rings Net54baseball Sports (Primarily) Vintage Memorabilia Forum incl. Game Used 3 06-25-2009 07:17 AM
Hall Of Fame names Archive Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 17 05-31-2002 01:22 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:28 PM.


ebay GSB