Mantle or Others?

[rats60]

Originally Posted by Seven

I think Jackie catching Mantle's cards, outside the 52 is very realistic as well. I think Mantle's name will still be relevant, even as some time passes because of how often Trout's compared to The Mick.

I think the black ink argument is a little disingenuous to Mantle at least in terms of what we know of stats today, but that's a different argument, the only player in a post war era to mirror peak Ted production was Bonds and he did it with a little extra help. But both are arguments for a different discussion!

Tomi said to go look at baseball reference and see all the times Mantle led the league. Black ink is the measure of leading the league, so it is a valid point. I don’t know what other stats you want to bring up, but WAR Williams 121.9 Mantle 110.2 even though Mantle played 109 games more. OPS + Williams 191 Mantle 172 despite Williams spending 5 prime years in the military. Any other “modern” stats I should use?

The point is the 49 Leaf Jackie catching the 52 Mantle. The populations are similar with a few more Mantles graded, 1695 to 1354, but numbers at higher grades 6+, 7+ & 8+ very similar. So, if Jackie’s demand reaches Mantle levels, it will. Mantle is never going away, it doesn’t mean others can’t match his popularity and the dramatic rise in Jackie’s popularity make that a real possibility.

[Seven]

Originally Posted by rats60

Tomi said to go look at baseball reference and see all the times Mantle led the league. Black ink is the measure of leading the league, so it is a valid point. I don’t know what other stats you want to bring up, but WAR Williams 121.9 Mantle 110.2 even though Mantle played 109 games more. OPS + Williams 191 Mantle 172 despite Williams spending 5 prime years in the military. Any other “modern” stats I should use?

The point is the 49 Leaf Jackie catching the 52 Mantle. The populations are similar with a few more Mantles graded, 1695 to 1354, but numbers at higher grades 6+, 7+ & 8+ very similar. So, if Jackie’s demand reaches Mantle levels, it will. Mantle is never going away, it doesn’t mean others can’t match his popularity and the dramatic rise in Jackie’s popularity make that a real possibility.

I'm not disagreeing on either point really. From the few books I've read and articles I've seen on advanced metrics, wRC+ for offensive production is very good. Calculates for a neutral park environment. Williams still has the edge over Mantle, but Williams has the edge over everyone Post War. I was saying black ink has a habit of underrating players at times because, you could have a fantastic all around player that might not lead the league in every offensive category.

Regardless concerning your second point, the next decade or so is where I think we see how this argument plays out. Will be interesting to see.

[investinrookies]

Originally Posted by rats60

The point is the 49 Leaf Jackie catching the 52 Mantle. The populations are similar with a few more Mantles graded, 1695 to 1354, but numbers at higher grades 6+, 7+ & 8+ very similar. So, if Jackie’s demand reaches Mantle levels, it will. Mantle is never going away, it doesn’t mean others can’t match his popularity and the dramatic rise in Jackie’s popularity make that a real possibility.

This and thanks for clarifying.

[bswhiten]

My prediction - 52T Mick will sell for more for at least the next 50 years.