PWCC Auctions this evening

[ullmandds]

Another week...more insane PWCC results!!!!! New records on lots of cards!

e121 ruth holding ball over 13K...sanellas over 1K in collector grade.

Im sitting here watching auctions end...what's up with the psa 6 us caramel gehrig? Looks like a major blemish to the left of his head? 28K????

And the JJ Sporting News...the edges look like they are fraying? Almost 18K?

[DeanH3]

$3,300 for a PSA 5 OM Collins. I guess there is no end in sight.

[Oscar_Stanage]

don't worry, you'll get another chance.
the same cards will now come out of the Vault, at a 20% increase of course. Who owns them? no one knows... when you look back, these will be local maxima.

[Wanaselja]

Possible explanation for the Gehrig? https://allvintagecards.com/lou-gehr...el-investment/

I had a bid planned on a card tonight that would have exceeded the winning bid of the last card they sold at the same grade by a good margin. I didn’t even get a chance to place it. Woe is me.

[RCMcKenzie]

I was like Lee Westwood on the bat on Tinker EPDG, I gave it my best effort, but could only manage 2nd place. I was 3rd underbidder on the bat off. Nice cards for the grade, I thought. I snagged a nice e106 Bescher for a nice price. I'm still looking at the 50's cards, but the pops are so high for post-war cards, I always feel like I can bid on another tomorrow.

[Casey2296]

I was considering the Collins OM early on but damn it wasn't that nice, also watching a few 32 Caramels as they sailed on by, feels to me like there's a couple collectors currently going after that set. Thankfully, I was fortunate enough to pick up a nice 14CJ tonight.

[chadeast]

It was an impressive auction. Lots of T cards. I was the underbidder on the T-227 Baker, i hope it went to a net54 home. I was well below the underbidder on 3 or 4 others.

[x2drich2000]

I still believe you can find some bargains if you are looking at less mainstream issues and/or lower grade cards. I was very happy picking up the m110 Cobb. Yes it has some condition issues, but considering the exact card sold for just $200 less 2 years ago and the way Cobbs have been lately, I think the price was very fair.

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by Wanaselja

Possible explanation for the Gehrig? https://allvintagecards.com/lou-gehr...el-investment/

I had a bid planned on a card tonight that would have exceeded the winning bid of the last card they sold at the same grade by a good margin. I didn’t even get a chance to place it. Woe is me.

The last card they sold was the exact same card as tonight. I also passed because of the surface issues.

The 52 Mantle 1.5 for 63k was an impressive result. Interesting that it sold for 17k more than the off center 2.5 in the same auction. Nice to see collectors stepping up for premium eye appeal for the grade.

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

The last card they sold was the exact same card as tonight. I also passed because of the surface issues.

The 52 Mantle 1.5 for 63k was an impressive result. Interesting that it sold for 17k more than the off center 2.5 in the same auction. Nice to see collectors stepping up for premium eye appeal for the grade.

Don't tell me that!!! That makes me hate giving up on my SGC 2 at $4,000.

[Thromdog]

Originally Posted by RCMcKenzie

I was like Lee Westwood on the bat on Tinker EPDG, I gave it my best effort, but could only manage 2nd place. :

Sorry to hear that. Not an easy get.

I was thrilled to get the bat off Tinker but wasn’t thrilled with the price at all......haha.

[scooter729]

Originally Posted by x2drich2000

I still believe you can find some bargains if you are looking at less mainstream issues and/or lower grade cards. I was very happy picking up the m110 Cobb. Yes it has some condition issues, but considering the exact card sold for just $200 less 2 years ago and the way Cobbs have been lately, I think the price was very fair.

Well done on the M110 Cobb - I was the underbidder at $6,300, and was kicking myself afterwards for not going a bit higher. Glad you got it at a fair price, and can confirm you were not shilled up!

[samosa4u]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1948-Leaf-J...rdt=true&rt=nc

OC too!

[ullmandds]

I too was watching the m110 cobb...really nice example! Great pickup! Crazy how cobbs like this...dietsches...other rare caramels dont come near the prices common t206's fetch!

[yanks87]

Originally Posted by samosa4u

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1948-Leaf-J...rdt=true&rt=nc

OC too!

This one has me thinking it is time to part ways with Mr. Robinson. As much as I wanted to pass a complete set down to my kids, that's a lot of money to turn away from.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Beginning of rant.

Being a known outlet for multiple card doctors (including himself) and being under FBI investigation seems a recipe for great hobby success and record price after record price.

End of rant.

[Casey2296]

Originally Posted by yanks87

This one has me thinking it is time to part ways with Mr. Robinson. As much as I wanted to pass a complete set down to my kids, that's a lot of money to turn away from.

I agree Brian,
I sent off my Mr. Robinson to REA on Friday. My instinct is telling me to sell into strength.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Beginning of rant.

Being a known outlet for multiple card doctors (including himself) and being under FBI investigation seems a recipe for great hobby success and record price after record price.

End of rant.

Think of how random, unnamed honest auctioneers must feel! When you know potential consignors are looking at PWCC results and then your results how do you compete for those consignments?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

Think of how random, unnamed honest auctioneers must feel! When you know potential consignors are looking at PWCC results and then your results how do you compete for those consignments?

Well at least those auctioneers won't have a federal guilty plea on their resume at the end of the day. It won't be nearly enough if that's all it is, but it's something I suppose. Now if we don't even get that, I will lose all faith, not that I haven't already.

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

Think of how random, unnamed honest auctioneers must feel! When you know potential consignors are looking at PWCC results and then your results how do you compete for those consignments?

You can't and it is unfortunate. Apparently what took place in the late 2000s at Mastro Auctions today is ok. Back then to artificially increase the value of a card was grounds for a felony but today is in good clean hobby fun.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Lorewalker

You can't and it is unfortunate. Apparently what took place in the late 2000s at Mastro Auctions today is ok. Back then to artificially increase the value of a card was grounds for a felony but today is in good clean hobby fun.

Brent acknowledged in the great 2016 runup that some of his customers were intentionally trying to push up market values. One of those customers pretty much said it too. There was an interesting thread about the legitimacy of that and if memory serves some of the answers were to my mind inconsistent with prior views of what was wrongful shill bidding.

[yanks87]

Originally Posted by Casey2296

I agree Brian,
I sent off my Mr. Robinson to REA on Friday. My instinct is telling me to sell into strength.

Good call, what is yours graded? Having a PSA 4, and seeing them sell for that much, or even the $28k on the same night makes me think I could reload the war chest, and stash a couple $k for when (if) prices come down to pick up a lower grade one.

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Brent acknowledged in the great 2016 runup that some of his customers were intentionally trying to push up market values. One of those customers pretty much said it too. There was an interesting thread about the legitimacy of that and if memory serves some of the answers were to my mind inconsistent with prior views of what was wrongful shill bidding.

Well the market seems to be...evolving...At one point altered cards being in holders was horrifying. Now it is commonplace and seems to be generally accepted, for a lack of a better word.

PWCC seems to be tied to both shilling and card altering AND is under investigation and nothing slowing down. Think that tells everyone all they need to know. Bad in 2010 but great in 2020.

[Casey2296]

Originally Posted by yanks87

Good call, what is yours graded? Having a PSA 4, and seeing them sell for that much, or even the $28k on the same night makes me think I could reload the war chest, and stash a couple $k for when (if) prices come down to pick up a lower grade one.

52 Topps SGC 5 with great centering. I'll probably just use the money to go after one of my unicorns, such is the life of a collector.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Lorewalker

Well the market seems to be...evolving...At one point altered cards being in holders was horrifying. Now it is commonplace and seems to be generally accepted, for a lack of a better word.

PWCC seems to be tied to both shilling and card altering AND is under investigation and nothing slowing down. Think that tells everyone all they need to know. Bad in 2010 but great in 2020.

As I've said, sometime in the mid 2010s, the flip became the commodity for many (especially set registry collectors), not the card. The flip doesn't care if the card is altered as long as it isn't painfully obvious. It confers the same ego gratification, bragging rights, and value either way,

[frankbmd]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

As I've said, sometime in the mid 2010s, the flip became the commodity for many (especially set registry collectors), not the card. The flip doesn't care if the card is altered as long as it isn't painfully obvious. It confers the same ego gratification, bragging rights, and value either way,

If flips are the collectible for the Registry, why even bother altering cards. Eliminate the cards, and merely alter the flips. Who needs card flippers, once the hobby is populated with flip flippers. At the National serve only pancakes and any other flippable food. Flip, flip flooray!!!

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by frankbmd

If flips are the collectible for the Registry, why even bother altering cards. Eliminate the cards, and merely alter the flips. Who needs card flippers, once the hobby is populated with flip flippers. At the National serve only pancakes and any other flippable food. Flip, flip flooray!!!

With special speaking guest, Flip Wilson....oh....wait....

[Schlesinj]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

Think of how random, unnamed honest auctioneers must feel! When you know potential consignors are looking at PWCC results and then your results how do you compete for those consignments?

I really liked that Walter Payton rookie you had last night. I was close to putting in one more bid.

[Schlesinj]

I know last night PWCC was auctioning off a Hank rookie and Jackie that was going to benefit a church or some religious not for profit. It got some news coverage too, so that probably helped with some bids.

[RCMcKenzie]

Congrats on the bat off Tinker, Jeff. I'm trying back runs for Tinker bat on and off. I'm glad an EPDG collector got at least one of them.

[hcv123]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

With special speaking guest, Flip Wilson....oh....wait....

Flippin out!

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by frankbmd

if flips are the collectible for the registry, why even bother altering cards. Eliminate the cards, and merely alter the flips. Who needs card flippers, once the hobby is populated with flip flippers. At the national serve only pancakes and any other flippable food. Flip, flip flooray!!!

smh

[SD]

Got a 33 Goudey PSA 6MK Comoroskey for 56 off them that night. I was pleased. The Dizzy Dean PSA 6.5 for 3400.... I was not.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by Schlesinj

I really liked that Walter Payton rookie you had last night. I was close to putting in one more bid.

It was a pretty special card. But then I look at top comps and wonder how one went for almost double what we got. Thanks for checking in with us though! I really do appreciate the support shown to me by so many members.

[pokerplyr80]

I was happy to win your 53 Paige last night and will be bidding in future auctions as well. I believe I have a few items consigned in your next auction too. Hope it's a good one for you!

[Peter_Spaeth]

Not too shabby for a second year non HOFer.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1985-Topps-...T/143970127368

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Not too shabby for a second year non HOFer.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1985-Topps-...T/143970127368

egads! they have like thousands of bond rookies!!!

[Johnny630]

Are we the only ones who don’t buy these numbers....

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

Are we the only ones who don’t buy these numbers....

well...until something changes...this has been the pattern in the hobby...just apparently many more buyers these days. Eventually things will level out in the modern world...imo. There are just too many of most of these cards. And most of the 10's have been altered.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Not too shabby for a second year non HOFer.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1985-Topps-...T/143970127368

Might not be a HOFer but is arguably the greatest of all time.

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

well...until something changes...this has been the pattern in the hobby...just apparently many more buyers these days. Eventually things will level out in the modern world...imo. There are just too many of most of these cards. And most of the 10's have been altered.

Agree !!

[Casey2296]

searching for my 1/2 dozen 85 Mcgwire Olympic cards..

Ah yes, here they are.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by bnorth

Might not be a HOFer but is arguably the greatest of all time.

Second year card.

[scooter729]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Not too shabby for a second year non HOFer.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1985-Topps-...T/143970127368

Not to get into modern card talk here, but I’ve got one of these Clemens in a 10, and will defend it....

There are 46 of these in a 10, out of over 1,400 graded - a 3% rate of getting a 10. In comparison, the whole 1985 Tiffany set has a 26% rate of getting a 10. So something is super tough about getting this card in a 10, and it is relatively a low pop in the grade. So. I think it actually has a chance to go higher.

OK, time to put my vintage hat back on....

[Peter_Spaeth]

Is there any other line of commerce where being clearly and convincingly exposed as a fraudster, and being under federal investigation would not only be good for business, but exceedingly good? It seems half the pricey cards in the hobby are now going to PWCC. Extraordinary.

[Oscar_Stanage]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Not too shabby for a second year non HOFer.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1985-Topps-...T/143970127368

these are types of cards at risk IMO. just because something is rare, does not mean it has to be expensive. i cannot imagine recurring demand for a card like this

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Is there any other line of commerce where being clearly and convincingly exposed as a fraudster, and being under federal investigation would not only be good for business, but exceedingly good? It seems half the pricey cards in the hobby are now going to PWCC. Extraordinary.

It brought Bill Mastro down. But then again, what was once seen as "unacceptable" in the past is outright accepted now. You see it really bad in politics.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Is there any other line of commerce where being clearly and convincingly exposed as a fraudster, and being under federal investigation would not only be good for business, but exceedingly good? It seems half the pricey cards in the hobby are now going to PWCC. Extraordinary.

Honestly I doubt the average collector has a clue about how big the fraud is in the hobby. Sure they know to avoid a few eBay sellers but that is it. I have some collecting friends that don't do any social media/forums and they don't have a clue.

These silly prices are not being driven by collectors. We have too many "investors" playing hot potato now with cards. Then we have a ton of people with a lot of extra time and cash helping the silliness.

I understand there are a lot of people that will do/are doing their best to not let the market drop like a rock. They have been doing an amazing job for the last couple years but this is like the junk era, it just can't last, or at least I sincerely hope not.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

It brought Bill Mastro down. But then again, what was once seen as "unacceptable" in the past is outright accepted now. You see it really bad in politics.

Right, if memory serves Mastro was finished once it hit the fan and long before his plea, but Brent on the other hand has gained tremendously.

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Is there any other line of commerce where being clearly and convincingly exposed as a fraudster, and being under federal investigation would not only be good for business, but exceedingly good? It seems half the pricey cards in the hobby are now going to PWCC. Extraordinary.

I wonder if he is still a client of any High Profile Defense Attorney?