Amazing 1989 Fleer Bill Ripken find

[jacksoncoupage]

Originally Posted by bnorth

Depends on how you look at it. To me it is just a large find of counterfeit cards. It is a very cool find but it doesn't change what the card is. Just my opinion on this "Mystery" card. I am not a expert but did recently stay at a Holiday Inn Express for multiple nights.

I remember seeing Donovan (or maybe Jon) first mention this card many years back and my initial thought was that it had to be a counterfeit (cashing in on the FF craze, likely in 1989), but whoever it was who first broke news of it really made a compelling case for it being some oddity produced by/for Fleer.

Is the general consensus now that these are, in fact, fakes?

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by jacksoncoupage

I remember seeing Donovan (or maybe Jon) first mention this card many years back and my initial thought was that it had to be a counterfeit (cashing in on the FF craze, likely in 1989), but whoever it was who first broke news of it really made a compelling case for it being some oddity produced by/for Fleer.

Is the general consensus now that these are, in fact, fakes?

I have heard some very compelling stories but it doesn't change that they are extremely obvious fakes IMO.

There are so many differences in ways that make no sense in printing that Fleer would have never done this for any reason.

[JustinD]

Originally Posted by bnorth

I have heard some very compelling stories but it doesn't change that they are extremely obvious fakes IMO.

There are so many differences in ways that make no sense in printing that Fleer would have never done this for any reason.

The backs seem to definitely give it away that it is counterfeit. The poor clarity in separation of text and the grey scale. The large disparity in orange tint colors seem to give it up as a copy also.

I am with you, not the greatest fake but makes sense that people would have been producing fakes during the craze and the extras pop up years later.

[jacksoncoupage]

Originally Posted by bnorth

I have heard some very compelling stories but it doesn't change that they are extremely obvious fakes IMO.

There are so many differences in ways that make no sense in printing that Fleer would have never done this for any reason.

I think everything you laid out in your statement on Jon's site makes a lot of sense. My initial thoughts on it back when it first turned up (2010ish?) seemed like an obvious counterfeit. And now it appears that another 1500 or so have turned up. Go figure!

[jp1216]

The first "Mystery" FF card was identified over 20 years ago. It was the only known example for nearly 10 years - and yes - there were a few of us looking. By 2010 one or two would appear on eBay. That continued +/- until this huge discovery.

The "Mystery" FF has many differences compared to the original. Many of those are better on the "Mystery" card. Unlike any fake I've ever seen before. I still feel like these were professionally made and not like 99% of other fakes out there. By who and why? Who knows.....

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by jp1216

The first "Mystery" FF card was identified over 20 years ago. It was the only known example for nearly 10 years - and yes - there were a few of us looking. By 2010 one or two would appear on eBay. That continued +/- until this huge discovery.

The "Mystery" FF has many differences compared to the original. Many of those are better on the "Mystery" card. Unlike any fake I've ever seen before. I still feel like these were professionally made and not like 99% of other fakes out there. By who and why? Who knows.....

I agree that they had to be made in a real print shop. Who, we will likely never know. Why, to make some quick cash. Then after selling some decided it was wrong and the reason we only found a few till this big find.

The big find also makes no sense for many many reasons. Why would an antique shop have them and not have sold them years ago? Seriously at any time in the last 20 years they had at very minimum $30,000 setting there in cards that are as easy to sell as any card in the hobby. Why wouldn't they have sold them before?

It is a "mystery" card for sure in so many ways.

[jp1216]

Also - that antique store find of 1500+ was in eastern PA (near where Fleer was located). Coincidence?

Back in the mid to late 90s - the FF was a $5 card. I really don't think these were made to cash in a profit. Why fake a $5 card?

Flashback link: HERE

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by jp1216

Also - that antique store find of 1500+ was in eastern PA (near where Fleer was located). Coincidence?

Back in the mid to late 90s - the FF was a $5 card. I really don't think these were made to cash in a profit. Why fake a $5 card?

Flashback link: HERE

For me the real question is why would Fleer make a huge stash of low grade copies using different designed stripes, a second generation resized picture, different card stock, cut the wrong size(they are all smaller than a real 89 Fleer), different screening size, and several other differences. Did Fleer really go out of its way to buy and use card stock they never used to make any other card? To me not a single thing about the card makes sense that Fleer printed it.