Joseph M Pankiewicz, you are a disgrace to this hobby!

[john.clowes]

Second stanza???

Consigned an auction,
Then bid it up.
Made way more money
And just can't stop.

[Rich Klein]

You know the topic is a big hit, when you outscore the monthly pick-up thread.

[john.clowes]

And when contributors turn to poetry to express themselves.

[travrosty]

but if you knowingly alter a card to top the registry, what kind of a feeling or reward is that, if you knew you cheated to get there?

[john.clowes]

Oh my, that's a great question. We could apply that to the state of MLB and its PED issue and the answer would probably be the same - fame, admiration, envy, jealousy. Possibly money. All of those things, probably driven by testosterone. I have very limited involvement with the registry, and about 5 years ago had a #1 Pirates team Set. For a short period of time, yes I felt a little pride in that accomplishment even in that very narrow niche. Very quickly, my set was overtaken by one of the very "notable" collectors with a lot more available resources. Overnight, it seemed, that a few of the big collectors had invaded the team set category, leveraging their master sets and re-using those cards in the team set category. After realizing what was happening, my desire to go after higher grade cards dropped to near-zero and I am now very content to chase down low to mid-grade vintage Pirates. No more registry competition for me. If I could ever offer any advice to PSA in regard to the registry, it would be to take away the ability to "double-use" a card in two categories on the registry. It would create more opportunities for the small-time collector to have a place and some recognition on it.

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by travrosty

but if you knowingly alter a card to top the registry, what kind of a feeling or reward is that, if you knew you cheated to get there?

The whole thing is asinine to begin with. I mean how shallow does one's ego have to be to pursue registry rank in the first place, let alone to condone the garbage we see perpetrated in the name of "registry."

[travrosty]

This is why I guess. to get an award. This guy got one honestly. There is no reason to believe otherwise. but there might be people who want to meet joe o and get the award by other means. Nothing against this collector, probably a highlight of his year. to each his own.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGm1AfZYKOM

[the 'stache]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

The whole thing is asinine to begin with. I mean how shallow does one's ego have to be to pursue registry rank in the first place, let alone to condone the garbage we see perpetrated in the name of "registry."

Very well said, Adam. I couldn't agree more.

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by travrosty

but if you knowingly alter a card to top the registry, what kind of a feeling or reward is that, if you knew you cheated to get there?

The numbers are all that matter.

[ALR-bishop]

I do not collect graded cards and am not a fan of grading in general. I do happen to know the person who was PSA's collector of the year this go around, and who does put his great sets on the Registry and regularly shares his cards, many of which are true hobby rarities, on this and other boards. He is not shallow and is actually quite humble about his amazing collection. And he is one of the most honest guys I know

[WhenItWasAHobby]

Originally Posted by travrosty

but if you knowingly alter a card to top the registry, what kind of a feeling or reward is that, if you knew you cheated to get there?

Never underestimate what lengths people will go through for social acceptance, recognition and admiration from one's peers and society.

[auggiedoggy]

Originally Posted by travrosty

but if you knowingly alter a card to top the registry, what kind of a feeling or reward is that, if you knew you cheated to get there?

Having a Barry Bonds flashback after reading this comment.

[botn]

Originally Posted by travrosty

but if you knowingly alter a card to top the registry, what kind of a feeling or reward is that, if you knew you cheated to get there?

Either I am not understanding what you wrote or you have misunderstood this thread. The person who is being accused of altering the baseball cards, Joe P, is a dealer, not a collector, and is not doing it to advance any sets in the registry. The alterations are done to enhance the value of the cards so they can be sold for a profit.

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by botn

Either I am not understanding what you wrote or you have misunderstood this thread. The person who is being accused of altering the baseball cards, Joe P, is a dealer, not a collector, and is not doing it to advance any sets in the registry. The alterations are done to enhance the value of the cards so they can be sold for a profit.

Are there any registry collectors at the top who believe all of their cards are unaltered?

[travrosty]

Originally Posted by botn

Either I am not understanding what you wrote or you have misunderstood this thread. The person who is being accused of altering the baseball cards, Joe P, is a dealer, not a collector, and is not doing it to advance any sets in the registry. The alterations are done to enhance the value of the cards so they can be sold for a profit.

i was responding to another poster who said the temptation is there for people who want to slip by some altered cards past the grading companies in order to get to the top of the registry, which is not the original topic of this thread but a theory put forth by someone that i wanted to respond to.

[HRBAKER]

Originally Posted by slidekellyslide

Are there any registry collectors at the top who believe all of their cards are unaltered?

I doubt it and I hope not.

[botn]

Originally Posted by slidekellyslide

Are there any registry collectors at the top who believe all of their cards are unaltered?

I do not have contact with any of the guys at the top so I cannot speak for them. It is my sense since the grading companies rarely buy cards back that this feeds their false sense of confidence or plays right into what they want to believe. This is not a knock against the top registry collectors just great marketing on behalf of the slabbers.

In all my years in the hobby, despite seeing too high of a percentage of altered cards in holders, I have never had any of the grading companies agree and buy a single card back from me or anyone who has presented them with cards on my behalf. It would seem they are never wrong. So I have stopped sending cards in on review. The guarantees they offer are pretty useless.

[Peter_Spaeth]

From memory Jim Crandell used to make statements to the effect that he didn't believe any of his cards were altered, but he is a very smart guy and I always suspected there was an element of bluster there.

[botn]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

From memory Jim Crandell used to make statements to the effect that he didn't believe any of his cards were altered, but he is a very smart guy and I always suspected there was an element of bluster there.

Ya think just an element of bluster? Jim knew/knows what is going on. Considering where we was getting some of his high grade stuff I would absolutely guarantee the cards were altered to the max!

[thehoodedcoder]

Since there is not going to be another response from this person maybe now it is time to start taking some action against what has happened?

How much is an advertising spot on this forum? Can we put up a banner ad?

A simple banner saying "Josepth Pankiewicz alters cards and resubmits them for higher grades" would be sufficient.

Kevin

[CW]

Other than more ad revenue for Leon, what would that accomplish? Not trying to be snarky, just realistic. He could always submit under a different name.

[WhenItWasAHobby]

Jim Crandell has a testimonial on PSA's website. It's also worth reading Ken Kendrick's and Brian Seigel's testimonials in light of the Mastro T206 Wagner PSA 8 debacle.

http://www.psacard.com/About/Testimonials

The problem I see with all of these testimonials is that there is a an on-going theme of blind confidence with no persuasive proof of PSA's ability to detect alterations. Nowhere does anyone say, "I deliberately doctored some cards to see if they would get detected by PSA and when I submitted them, PSA caught each and every type of alteration."

[tbob]

Originally Posted by WhenItWasAHobby

Jim Crandell has a testimonial on PSA's website. It's also worth reading Ken Kendrick's and Brian Seigel's testimonials in light of the Mastro T206 Wagner PSA 8 debacle.

http://www.psacard.com/About/Testimonials

The problem I see with all of these testimonials is that there is a an on-going theme of blind confidence with no persuasive proof of PSA's ability to detect alterations. Nowhere does anyone say, "I deliberately doctored some cards to see if they would get detected by PSA and when I submitted them, PSA caught each and every type of alteration."

Does anyone in this day and age really doubt that submitters who exclusively use one grading company and submit thousands and thousands of cards to them for grading, don't receive better grades than Sam P. Collector who submits a handful of cards a year? These testimonials are a joke.

[glchen]

Originally Posted by slidekellyslide

Are there any registry collectors at the top who believe all of their cards are unaltered?

Can't you say this for anyone's collection, however? I mean even for the raw collections of the long time collectors and experts on this board, can they say with 100% confidence that all of the card in their collection that they believe are unaltered are that way? I think that's tough unless you have a very small collection or just have the original cards that you purchased right out of the pack.

[D.P.Johnson]

Originally Posted by CW

Other than more ad revenue for Leon, what would that accomplish? Not trying to be snarky, just realistic. He could always submit under a different name.

Unfortunately, you're probably correct. If he lived in the foothills of Northern California, I could have a couple of my associates swing by his house for a quick visit. Heck, since he seems like a pretty nice guy, they might even be able to convince him to submit some of his own personal PSA/DNA on the barrel of a Louisville Slugger...

[Cardboard Junkie]

Originally Posted by D.P.Johnson

Unfortunately, you're probably correct. If he lived in the foothills of Northern California, I could have a couple of my associates swing by his house for a quick visit. Heck, since he seems like a pretty nice guy, they might even be able to convince him to submit some of his own personal PSA/DNA on the barrel of a Louisville Slugger...

I would just like to see him "come clean" and stop doing it. Expose everybody involved if there is a conspiracy. Dave.

[D.P.Johnson]

Originally Posted by Cardboard Junkie

I would just like to see him "come clean" and stop doing it. Expose everybody involved if there is a conspiracy. Dave.

I think if someone in NJ swung by house and had a little chat with him, he'd probably stop doing it...I'm just guessing though...

[Cardboard Junkie]

ha ha ha ha! Dave

[Rich Klein]

and the T-206 Wagner card. That card is worth more today then when he purchased the card, even with what we now know. Having a whole book written about that card should be proof enough of the fame and I would wager that for the ownership pride Mr. Kendrick could sell that card at a profit right now.

Rich

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by Cardboard Junkie

I would just like to see him "come clean" and stop doing it. Expose everybody involved if there is a conspiracy. Dave.

Someone sent me a PM and asked me why I put his name back in title. I told them that I felt Joe didn't hold up his end of the bargain. Had he come clean and admitted everything (as it is all right there for everyone to see), I would have left his name out of the title. But since he came here and only defended his character and didn't address the doctoring, shilling, etc., I put his name back into the title.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by glchen

Can't you say this for anyone's collection, however? I mean even for the raw collections of the long time collectors and experts on this board, can they say with 100% confidence that all of the card in their collection that they believe are unaltered are that way? I think that's tough unless you have a very small collection or just have the original cards that you purchased right out of the pack.

Ok, I'll go out on that limb.

My collection is good sized. I've never really counted, but since I have sports and non-spors, and don't avoid the late 80's-early 90's junk era......probably a bit over 20,000 cards? Oldest 1887, newest this afternoon.

I do have a few altered cards, everything from trimmed/skinned to just written on. And a small number - maybe 5 that I'm not certain of. The rest I'm confident are not altered.

Steve Birmingham

[Pat R]

I don't believe you can say the cards like drysdale and gehrig are the same
cards that have been bumped when the identifying marks are all related
to the printing process.Take a look at these two cards that are not even the
same players, besides the same exact plate scratch marks look at all
the other marks that are the same.

[thehoodedcoder]

you make a good point. i think that its totally possible for 2 cards to have the same markings. i had thought this before.

your cards have different fronts though. there is a smaller percentage of cards with the same front and same markings on the back. what are the percentage of cards that have the same number of marks on them.

then what percentage of them are in higher grade, with a desirable player on the front. what percentage of those cards are owned and sold by the same person in a short period of time?

kevin

[vintagetoppsguy]

The two T206s have printing anomalies within the normal print of the card. The Drysdale, Gehrig, etc all had stray print marks that were the same from card to card. There's a big difference.

Also, there were other factors besides the print marks such as natural flaws within the cardboard that was the same from card to card - something that shouldn't occur. Another factor was also centering that was the same from card to card.

When you look at all the evidence, and the fact that he shilled the cards, there is absolutely no doubt in my mind that each card was the same.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

The two T206s have printing anomalies within the normal print of the card. The Drysdale, Gehrig, etc all had stray print marks that were the same from card to card. There's a big difference.

Also, there were other factors besides the print marks such as natural flaws within the cardboard that was the same from card to card - something that shouldn't occur. Another factor was also centering that was the same from card to card.

When you look at all the evidence, and the fact that he shilled the cards, there is absolutely no doubt in my mind that each card was the same.

And Joe did not deny they were the same cards unless I missed something, just claimed he did nothing to them.

[D.P.Johnson]

Originally Posted by peter_spaeth

and joe did not deny they were the same cards unless i missed something, just claimed he did nothing to them.

bingo!

[Peter_Spaeth]

To quote the Kingston Trio, "He never returned no he never returned."

Or to quote Fitzgerald, "I think he realizes his presumptuous little flirtation is over."

[Section103]

I got nothing to add here except to say that a good Fitzgerald quote is a great addition to anything.

last name is Van Hess, just to make sure Im within the rules....

[WhenItWasAHobby]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

To quote the Kingston Trio, "He never returned no he never returned."

And his fate is still unlearned...

[barrysloate]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

To quote the Kingston Trio, "He never returned no he never returned."

Or to quote Fitzgerald, "I think he realizes his presumptuous little flirtation is over."

What Ella Fitzgerald song is that from?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by WhenItWasAHobby

And his fate is still unlearned...

He'll get bumps forever neath the graders' radar
He's the man who never returned.

[Paul S]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

What Ella Fitzgerald song is that from?

The one with the gothic "F" stamp on the back of the sheet music.

[Cardboard Junkie]

Originally Posted by Paul S

The one with the gothic "F" stamp on the back of the sheet music.

ha ha ha good one!

[Sean]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

To quote the Kingston Trio, "He never returned no he never returned."

Is that where that song comes from? I remember it from an episode of Malcolm in the Middle.

[ScottFandango]

i dont get it....

he simply admitted to cherry picking cards and resubmitting them....

BUT WHAT ABOUT THE APPARENT ALTERATIONS DONE BEFORE THE RESUBMITS?

many clear scans in this thread show the cards have been altered....

an EX-grader using his knowledge to alter cards in a way that cant be detected?????

SAY IT AINT SO................................................ .....................

[thehoodedcoder]

whatever happened here. still not responses right?

kevin

[nsaddict]

Not to keep this thread alive, but does anyone know the business aspect between Pank and Rick? Since Rick hasn't addressed it here? And Pank hasn't won anything from him recently.

a)Rick told him to take his business elsewhere?
b)Still bids with a new ID or a friends account?
c)Pank found a new seller?
d) Fill in your own thought?

Also, will be curious what SGC will determine in regards to that infamous Goudey Gehrig?

[Cardboard Junkie]

I'm thinking the conversation might have gone something like this: "The jig is up, let's lay low." Dave

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by Cardboard Junkie

I'm thinking the conversation might have gone something like this: "The jig is up, let's lay low." Dave

Lol! I'm thinking it went more like this: "Well, we've been caught red-handed twice now and nobody seems to care and it hasn't hurt sales, let's take it up a notch."

To answer the question though, Pank still continues to consign with Rick. Pank currently has 571 currrent active auctions consigned to Rick.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Does anybody have an update of the Gehrig card that was the subject of post #98 (Page 13)? It’s the one that went from a PSA 6.5 to an SGC 8.5. When it was pointed out to Greg Bussineau (who was selling the card on eBay), he removed it from eBay and was supposed to send it back to SGC for re-evaluation. That was a couple of weeks ago and surely SGC has looked at it by now.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...ht_3264wt_1200

Of all the bumps I’ve seen, this one really bothers me the most. Here’s why. I don’t think anybody is going to crack a PSA 6.5 Gehrig (a $7300 card) to try to cross it over unless they know beforehand that they are going to get a bump. It’s just too much of a gamble. In other words, I believe the crossover/bump was pre-arranged. After all, if the submitter only wanted a crossover, they would have just sent it in still in the PSA slab. Make sense?

Does anybody know Greg and, if so, can they ask him what SGC said about this card? If this card is deemed to be trimmed, I think SGC owes us some answers:

1. Who submitted this card for grading?
2. Who was the grader that missed the obvious trim?

Note: I should point out that I do not believe this was one of Panky’s bumps. I only brought it up originally because we were on the topic of bumps. I just think that’s worth mentioning.