Messi and Ronaldo

[Peter_Spaeth]

Two generational players, of the same generation. Hard to imagine when all is said and done they are not both in the top 5 of all time.

[ClementeFanOh]

PeterSpaeth-

1) Nice cards!

2) Messi "top 5 of all time"? Yes. Ronaldo? Not so much. As a pure volume
scorer, yes. In many other areas, though, he is a liability, which many
other greats (Pele, Maradona, Messi, Cruyff, Ronaldinho, I could go on)
were not. Passing? Meh. Defense? Nope. Teamwork? Give me a
break. Best American comparison (major sport) I can think of in the
moment is Kobe Bryant- a totally self-absorbed prima donna. Never seen
a soccer player throw so many on-field tantrums when one of his own
teammates scores (because he wasn't the center of attention). Also
obsessed in real time because another player (Jordan for Bryant, Messi
for Ronaldo) was considered better by so many. Pure talent alone gets
him in the conversation, but he's not on my Mount Everest of the sport.
There are many players I'd rather watch than Ronaldo (including the real
Ronaldo). Ronaldo is undoubtedly an exciting player with a legion of fans,
but pump the brakes on Top 5 all time.

Trent King

[Peter_Spaeth]

Trent you make good points and the analogy to Kobe is interesting. But in soccer, where so few goals are scored, scoring is of such paramount importance, no? Would you at least rank him top 10?

[ClementeFanOh]

Peter- Interesting question. Naturally there is a premium on goals scored,
just as there is a premium on TDs scored in football (it's worth
remembering as a side note that a 21-14 football game is actually a 3-2
game). As is the case with football, however, a LOT has to happen in soccer
before the glory guy scores the goal. The players I prefer are the ones who
do a bunch of things well on the field: for example, weaving the ball down
the field past defenders, placing perfectly weighted passes to teammates to
their advantage, and actually playing defense/caring about the win rather
than individual stats. The comment I made about Ronaldo openly pouting
when a teammate scores was not exaggeration, he's been caught on camera
doing it. He has been a chronically selfish player for 15+ years.

I like to use an example of a team I don't care for as a fan, Real Madrid. In
the late 1990s/early 2000s the team bought "Galacticos", a nickname for
extremely expensive internationals- players like David Beckham, Luis Figo,
Zinedine Zidane, Luis Figo, Michael Owen. These were huge stars who
grabbed the public's attention. Even these players would acknowledge,
however, that defensive midfielder Makelele (most people don't even know
him) was the team's most valuable player.

I guess I prefer a more well rounded player, both to watch and (certainly)
for "Mount Rushmore" status. Dennis Bergkamp was often called "the
perfect forward". Currently, although I loathe Madrid, Karim Benzema is a
flat assassin inside the 18 box. Don't get me wrong, Ronaldo has scored a
ton of goals- he just simply displayed little to no interest in major parts of
the game and actually struggled at World Cup in his prime years.

I may be an outlier here, but I'd say no to top 10. Then again, maybe I'm
not. I can tell you I've seen a LOT of players who I'd rather have on my
team.

Thanks for asking, Trent King

[ClementeFanOh]

Peter- I mentioned Luis Figo twice in the above message, when discussing
the Galacticos of Real Madrid. I must have thought he was doubly great, lol

Trent King

[Peter_Spaeth]

Trent, again good points, although I would say I have seen an awful lot of goals which were mostly the result of individual skill and not really a team effort, and as you know Ronaldo is superb at manufacturing goals. In any case, it is all ultimately objective and makes for a good discussion. Incidentally who do you rate as the best, Pele or Maradona (assuming those are your top two_?