eBay Seller Return Scam

[Kleepernop]

I bought a fairly large dollar raw card on eBay. The seller listed it as Original with ample description as to why that was the case. I took the risk knowing eBay stands behind buyers in cases of counterfeits.

Sure enough the card comes and it was a fake. A good fake, but a fake nonetheless. I contacted the seller and let him know I’d be returning it, and submitted for the return with good photos and documentation. The seller eventually accepted the return in eBay.

Then, when gets the card back he opens a claim against me saying that I RETURNED A DIFFERENT CARD! Needless to say I’m furious, and have to wait on eBay.

My question- what can I do to protect myself. Talking to someone at eBay is impossible anymore. Should I file a Police report of his scam? I’d love to get this crook pinched too. Any advice is welcomed.

Er.ic Kro.ger

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[MikeGarcia]

..Hello ; if this all happened via the United States Postal Service and if the item crossed state lines and if the amount of money was above a certain threshold then there are several interested parties. More than just E-Bay and PayPal and your linked Credit Card. Do you have his home address ? That would be a good start.

..

[Kleepernop]

Thanks for the response, as yes it did cross State lines and I have his home address.


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[Seven]

Originally Posted by Kleepernop

I bought a fairly large dollar raw card on eBay. The seller listed it as Original with ample description as to why that was the case. I took the risk knowing eBay stands behind buyers in cases of counterfeits.

Sure enough the card comes and it was a fake. A good fake, but a fake nonetheless. I contacted the seller and let him know I’d be returning it, and submitted for the return with good photos and documentation. The seller eventually accepted the return in eBay.

Then, when gets the card back he opens a claim against me saying that I RETURNED A DIFFERENT CARD! Needless to say I’m furious, and have to wait on eBay.

My question- what can I do to protect myself. Talking to someone at eBay is impossible anymore. Should I file a Police report of his scam? I’d love to get this crook pinched too. Any advice is welcomed.


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If you haven't gotten your money back, get in contact with your credit card company.

[Kleepernop]

Thanks. This was just a PayPal balance transaction, no Credit Card company. Sounds like a call to PayPal is in order.


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[Shoeless Moe]

You need to post the Seller's Ebay ID if you want others to avoid the same situation you are going through.

[Kleepernop]

Originally Posted by Shoeless Moe

You need to post the Seller's Ebay ID if you want others to avoid the same situation you are going through.

Ok I doubt you’ll see more listings from him but it’s micolve99.


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[buymycards]

Originally Posted by Kleepernop

Ok I doubt you’ll see more listings from him but it’s micolve99.


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That ID doesn't come up in an eBay search.

[bobbyw8469]

Came up for me. Feedback of ONE. THat should have been a huge red flag right there.

[Kleepernop]

If it’s advertised as original, then no. I’ll risk a return, and I’ve had great transactions with low feedback scores before. I didn’t envision this scam though...


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[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by Kleepernop

If it’s advertised as original, then no. I’ll risk a return, and I’ve had great transactions with low feedback scores before. I didn’t envision this scam though...


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It's horrible. A zero feedback seller with a description like that?? Even the very last picture shows what a fake the card is. Not saying you deserved to be scammed, but this one had AVOID ME at every freaking turn.

[Kleepernop]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

It's horrible. A zero feedback seller with a description like that?? Even the very last picture shows what a fake the card is. Not saying you deserved to be scammed, but this one had AVOID ME at every freaking turn.

Thanks. I’ve seen a lot worse red flags, and had successful transactions with more red flags. I’ve also got my money back every time it doesn’t work out.

Did you have any insights on my original question?


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[sportscardpete]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

It's horrible. A zero feedback seller with a description like that?? Even the very last picture shows what a fake the card is. Not saying you deserved to be scammed, but this one had AVOID ME at every freaking turn.

Guy is looking for help not your chastising.

[RL]

make sure you file a mail fraud report with the usps

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by sportscardpete

Guy is looking for help not your chastising.

Not trying to chastize him. He should have never allowed himself to get into this situation to begin with however. The words of PT Barnum ring true.

[bobbyw8469]

As for how to handle the fraud. Contact the police department. File a police report. Contact the postal inspector. Contact the credit card company.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

Not trying to chastize him. He should have never allowed himself to get into this situation to begin with however. The words of PT Barnum ring true.

also the if too good to be true it is words...

a PSA 5 just sold for 18k.....but i will just sell my EX card raw with no feedback.. Also too put that much detail in how the card could be real but yet will just lose 10k on the card selling it raw...

[Jim65]

Originally Posted by Kleepernop

I bought a fairly large dollar raw card on eBay. The seller listed it as Original with ample description as to why that was the case. I took the risk knowing eBay stands behind buyers in cases of counterfeits.

Sure enough the card comes and it was a fake. A good fake, but a fake nonetheless. I contacted the seller and let him know I’d be returning it, and submitted for the return with good photos and documentation. The seller eventually accepted the return in eBay.

Then, when gets the card back he opens a claim against me saying that I RETURNED A DIFFERENT CARD! Needless to say I’m furious, and have to wait on eBay.

My question- what can I do to protect myself. Talking to someone at eBay is impossible anymore. Should I file a Police report of his scam? I’d love to get this crook pinched too. Any advice is welcomed.


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Filing a police report is pointless, police work on evidence and you have none. Its your word against his. I'm sure Ebay will rule in your favor. If they don't, file a PayPal claim.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Jim65

Filing a police report is pointless, police work on evidence and you have none. Its your word against his. I'm sure Ebay will rule in your favor. If they don't, file a PayPal claim.

Im sure with defunding police they will keep the fighting baseball card fraud unit open

[Kleepernop]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

Im sure with defunding police they will keep the fighting baseball card fraud unit open

LOL. I’ll need to hire some Antifa idiots to help.


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[bobbyw8469]

Also this may sound funny but it didn’t have the smell of an authentic.

That part doesn't sound funny to me at it. It is very factual. Vintage baseball cards have a unique smell to them.

[Kleepernop]

Thank you to those who provided ideas to help. I’m pursuing those - much appreciated.

For those who decided it was more productive to tell me how stupid I am - from behind the anonymity of your screen name, no less - know that I’ve bought hundreds of ungraded cards on eBay worth well into the 6-figure $ value and haven’t been burned once. I’m willing to take a risk to grow the value of my collection at a rate greater than my investment, and given this one was listed as original, the risk is minimal.

So I’ll do what I do. You do you. Thanks for listening.


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[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by Kleepernop

Thank you to those who provided ideas to help. I’m pursuing those - much appreciated.

For those who decided it was more productive to tell me how stupid I am - from behind the anonymity of your screen name, no less - know that I’ve bought hundreds of ungraded cards on eBay worth well into the 6-figure $ value and haven’t been burned once. I’m willing to take a risk to grow the value of my collection at a rate greater than my investment, and given this one was listed as original, the risk is minimal.

So I’ll do what I do. You do you. Thanks for listening.


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I've refrained from kicking a guy when he's down. But you say you're willing to take a risk. But then when you get burned you, understandably, want to be made whole. So you DIDN'T want to take a risk, you wanted a gamble with house money. This outcome is the result of actual risk taking. Hopefully the other times it has worked out covers this time where it didn't. That's what taking a risk means.

That being said I don't want a scammer rewarded, but honestly you aren't looking to take risks. Hopefully you haven't this time either.

[cardsagain74]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

I've refrained from kicking a guy when he's down. But you say you're willing to take a risk. But then when you get burned you, understandably, want to be made whole. So you DIDN'T want to take a risk, you wanted a gamble with house money. This outcome is the result of actual risk taking. Hopefully the other times it has worked out covers this time where it didn't. That's what taking a risk means.

That being said I don't want a scammer rewarded, but honestly you aren't looking to take risks. Hopefully you haven't this time either.

Ditto, and another thing that makes it tough to refrain is the claims that he's had countless flawless high $ transactions similar to this one. Which we all know is impossible if you're regularly buying material like a supposedly authentic raw Goudey Ruth from a seller with 1 feedback and a description like that.

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by cardsagain74

Ditto, and another thing that makes it tough to refrain is the claims that he's had countless flawless high $ transactions similar to this one. Which we all know is impossible if you're regularly buying material like a supposedly authentic raw Goudey Ruth from a seller with 1 feedback and a description like that.

Zero feedbacks. The one is got was from the OP.

[Jcosta19]

I also think ebay will side with you and wish you luck. Thanks for giving the scammers ID as that can be helpful for us.

I will have to disagree with your objections and definition of anonymity however, since you are the member seeking advice on a forum that you do not contribute to, with absolutely no identifying information in your profile, and the respondents are very long time, contributing board members with their identities unhidden.

Good luck.

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[bobbyw8469]

And maybe I came across the wrong way. I wasn't chastizing him. Was just pointing out that this was an OBVIOUS scam that even the most "wet behind the ears" collector should have spotted. Greed plays funny tricks on people though.

[Jcosta19]

Originally Posted by Jcosta19

I also think ebay will side with you and wish you luck. Thanks for giving the scammers ID as that can be helpful for us.

I will have to disagree with your objections and definition of anonymity however, since you are the member seeking advice on a forum that you do not contribute to, with absolutely no identifying information in your profile, and the respondents are very long time, contributing board members with their identities unhidden.

Good luck.

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I do actually see that the OP put his name in the original post actually. Not sure if it was there originally, but I partially retract my comment on anonymity.

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[toledo_mudhen]

Originally Posted by Kleepernop

I bought a fairly large dollar raw card on eBay. The seller listed it as Original with ample description as to why that was the case. Sure enough the card comes and it was a fake.

Just curious - Once you got the card - how did you then determine it was a fake? I'm looking at the listing and I don't see anything (like others) that says to me "This is a Fake!"

Well - except for the fact that it isn't in a TPG Slab and it appears to be a really strong EXMT. If real - a truly exceptional card.

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by toledo_mudhen

Just curious - Once you got the card - how did you then determine it was a fake? I'm looking at the listing and I don't see anything (like others) that says to me "This is a Fake!"

Well - except for the fact that it isn't in a TPG Slab and it appears to be a really strong EXMT. If real - a truly exceptional card.

The picture in the toploader was the dead giveaway to me. It looked like it was a photocopy. The image didn't have a "crisp, concise" look that the originals have. In addition to getting scammed for over $4k, I am betting that the OP paid around $250 to get it graded so quickly from PSA. When I got scammed with the fake Satchel Paige rookie, that is what I had to pay to get it graded, and I did NOT get to recoup that.

[Kleepernop]

Originally Posted by toledo_mudhen

Just curious - Once you got the card - how did you then determine it was a fake? I'm looking at the listing and I don't see anything (like others) that says to me "This is a Fake!"

Well - except for the fact that it isn't in a TPG Slab and it appears to be a really strong EXMT. If real - a truly exceptional card.

Sure. When I received the card, it felt lighter than ‘33 Goudys. Looking at it sideways, the edge was way too white for a 87 year old card. The biggest give away was a slight gloss on the back. Also this may sound funny but it didn’t have the smell of an authentic.

My assessment was the same as yours, and I couldn’t tell for sure it was fake until I held it in my hand. As mentioned every time an eBay seller listed a fake card as original, I got my money back. I didn’t dream of this Seller’s scam.


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[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Kleepernop

Sure. When I received the card, it felt lighter than ‘33 Goudys. Looking at it sideways, the edge was way too white for a 87 year old card. The biggest give away was a slight gloss on the back. Also this may sound funny but it didn’t have the smell of an authentic.

My assessment was the same as yours, and I couldn’t tell for sure it was fake until I held it in my hand. As mentioned every time an eBay seller listed a fake card as original, I got my money back. I didn’t dream of this Seller’s scam.


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i fsomeone is trying to sell a fake card as real how can you not dream of a scam being likely...i would consider that variable within the realm of possibility and certainly could dream/nightmare that option.

[1952boyntoncollector]

You can buy 100 fake babe ruth repros

dirty them a bit..say you are listing them as reprint because you are not an expert..can also say got them in grandpa basement or from a older church going member etc and no time to submit to PSA because need money now

you will get 10 bucks or so probably...and they probably cost 2 dollars....5x profit not bad

[sportscomicfantasy]

I don't blame you for going after non-graded cards and it seems like you have done well with it in the past. If you end up losing on this one, it doesn't seem like from what your saying it will kill you financially. Like a previous comment, I don't like to see the scammer win, so I wish you luck in getting your money back. Ebay should side with you, but... I am thinking someone like this will take scans of another fake and send it to them to show you sent a different card back to him.

In the future, I would scan the card before you send it back if you have a problem with another card in the future. You deal in much more expensive cards than I do, so I might even take a video of packaging the item and addressing it to send it back. Just a thought...

As for what to do, I agree with trying Ebay first, Paypal second, and then the mail fraud. Or you could try emailing the guy and just state what you're going to do and see if you can get him to cave. He might not care about his Ebay account but having a record on his Paypal account he may not like. Also, I know from experience having a person do a Paypal dispute with me, put a hold on that amount of money in my Paypal account until it was resolved before I had more sales.(I sold a graded card and the guy sent it off to be grade by another company and it came back altered and he filed against me but I won as I should have) I would file a police report as well but doubt it would do much, but I still would.

I wish you luck.

[Kleepernop]

Let’s try it this way. I’m willing to take a risk that eBay will stand behind me if I buy a fake. They have every time it has happened. Yes, every time. So I’m willing to take a risk with an eBay purchase.

This has nothing to do with the risk of getting scammed. But we all take that, including you, every time we buy a card on eBay! The seller could send do a bait and switch (that has happened to me), or photoshop a card (seen that too). Heck the seller an empty package for gosh sakes, then it’s your word against his.

Look I get it: caveat emptor. But when making an online purchase there is ALWAYS risk.


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[Case12]

If the risk is higher than comfort of loosing, then I ask here first.

I picked up a Chipper Jones signed ball last week for best offer of $6. (That's right, $6). The eBay seller was a flea market dealer and was super nice. If I lost $6, I would let my dog play with it. Turns out it is real and I love it (now, I have two signed chipper balls).

[Kleepernop]

Thank you all for the advice. I was able to get my money back.

Long story short I was finally able to talk to EBay’s high value claims person. PM me and I’ll give the details of how to do that if your want to know. Anyway, and I speculate here, it looks like eBay saw my long and honest history, an forced the hand of the scamming seller.

PayPal was helpful and told me I could file a claim with them as well. I figured my best bet was with eBay first. I didn’t get much momentum with the police or USPS. I figured that would be the case but at least it made me feel better! I did get to tell the cop how much her work is appreciated despite the other BS in the world. She appreciated that.

So all in all, my loss was a lot of time and being out $4.5k for over a month, but it ended OK. I love the hobby, and will continue investing (that is the word I use to justify it to my wife!!). But I will remember this scam and think one more time before buying.


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[Seven]

Originally Posted by Kleepernop

Thank you all for the advice. I was able to get my money back.

Long story short I was finally able to talk to EBay’s high value claims person. PM me and I’ll give the details of how to do that if your want to know. Anyway, and I speculate here, it looks like eBay saw my long and honest history, an forced the hand of the scamming seller.

PayPal was helpful and told me I could file a claim with them as well. I figured my best bet was with eBay first. I didn’t get much momentum with the police or USPS. I figured that would be the case but at least it made me feel better! I did get to tell the cop how much her work is appreciated despite the other BS in the world. She appreciated that.

So all in all, my loss was a lot of time and being out $4.5k for over a month, but it ended OK. I love the hobby, and will continue investing (that is the word I use to justify it to my wife!!). But I will remember this scam and think one more time before buying.


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If there is one thing I've learned from being on here briefly, it's that for big purchases, try to limit yourself to buying from only the most reliable sources possible and always cover your bases when it comes to dropping significant money on a card.

[sportscomicfantasy]

Originally Posted by Kleepernop

Thank you all for the advice. I was able to get my money back.

Long story short I was finally able to talk to EBay’s high value claims person. PM me and I’ll give the details of how to do that if your want to know. Anyway, and I speculate here, it looks like eBay saw my long and honest history, an forced the hand of the scamming seller.

PayPal was helpful and told me I could file a claim with them as well. I figured my best bet was with eBay first. I didn’t get much momentum with the police or USPS. I figured that would be the case but at least it made me feel better! I did get to tell the cop how much her work is appreciated despite the other BS in the world. She appreciated that.

So all in all, my loss was a lot of time and being out $4.5k for over a month, but it ended OK. I love the hobby, and will continue investing (that is the word I use to justify it to my wife!!). But I will remember this scam and think one more time before buying.


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Soooo glad it worked out for you and thanks for letting us know about it!

[iwantitiwinit]

Buying a raw card for $4200 sight unseen. Nuff said.

[MikeGarcia]

..
"Long story short I was finally able to talk to EBay’s high value claims person." :::

.."high-value claims"------ to some of us out here , getting openly cheated out of $99.00 classifies as a high-value scam..... E-Bay doesn't seem to have a person for the rest of us ??


..

..

[Jewish-collector]

I'm a very low end buyer, so I would get upset if it happened to me with a $20 card.

If I was ever to buy something valued at 4K, I would certainly buy it from a reputable auction house. Am I correct with that statement ?