ebay missing card gone bad

[wondo]

Originally Posted by BLongley

I would defend myself and work to prove I never received it and also communicate with the seller. It’s all circumstantial evidence but then you’re offering money too quickly, and as an observer that looks like guilt.

I disagree

[BLongley]

Originally Posted by wondo

I disagree

Sure thing... of course you can , we all have our own opinions.

[Oscar_Stanage]

[b]justinfarber10 has been unresponsive to all messages sent outside of his ebay case.

"You sent me two eBay messages, neither asked a question, proposed a solution or requested my response in any way." - Justin



I believe both parties are telling the truth. Justin has a positive reputation, his explanations are plausible, and he does not appear to have a profile of someone who rips you off for $73. And, Brewing acted reasonably by exhausting all options given the hand he was dealt. he had no choice but to take this public.

I will say this was entirely avoidable, the one thing I do not understand is Justin's non-responsiveness. I have bought hundreds of cards from Ebay in the last 3 months and at the first inkling of an issue, I hit the "contact seller" button and ask them about my items. On two occasions, an item ended up tracking to a random post office on the other side of the country, and on one occasion the item was 'delivered' to the wrong location (seller filed a report with USPS, and it was back on track in a day). All matters were handled via email. Bottom line is that communication cures all ills. So I am little confused as to why you would not respond when a seller contacts you twice. I did not see the actual messages, but I am not sure why there needs to be a question or a specific request. An item was lost, just tell the guy... he obviously cared enough to contact you.

[swarmee]

It's standard operating procedure for most Blowout guys to recommend "Open a case and don't escalate anything. Just let eBay handle it." Mainly because discussing an open missing item case or INAD case with the seller will normally end in further complications than just ignoring all messages.
The culture is different because they're used to dealing with more scammers, and the best way to do that is to follow eBay's procedures.

[Oscar_Stanage]

Originally Posted by swarmee

It's standard operating procedure for most Blowout guys to recommend "Open a case and don't escalate anything. Just let eBay handle it." Mainly because discussing an open missing item case or INAD case with the seller will normally end in further complications than just ignoring all messages.
The culture is different because they're used to dealing with more scammers, and the best way to do that is to follow eBay's procedures.

makes sense. thank you for the info. I definitely already believed Justin's explanation. This comment clarifies my earlier question.

[brewing]

Originally Posted by farberjustin

Sorry for the delay in responding all. I had to create an account to respond.

Welcome to the board. If you're going to collect T206's and participate in message boards, this is the place.

I'm still flabbergasted that filing a claim was your first move (especially since you sell on ebay too). Then followed up with nothing outside of the case, knowing another collector just lost money. When I requested within the ebay case to contact your PO (the last people to have it), you followed up with requesting to close the case.

The lack of concern or effort to help bothered me way more than $73.

I'm sorry it came to having your name sullied to express empathy or concern for another collector losing money. I really don't like this situation.

Since you offered to pay, I propose a $73 donation to the Negro League Museum https://nlbm.com/donations/ and post evidence on both boards of the donation. Within 24 hours I in turn will delete both threads or request a moderator to delete (in case I don't the ability to delete).

I will edit title of thread now and after deletion I will make a follow up post on Missing T206 with images of the card for record in case the card reappears.

[Jim65]

Originally Posted by brewing

Since you offered to pay, I propose a $73 donation to the Negro League Museum https://nlbm.com/donations/ and post evidence on both boards of the donation. Within 24 hours I in turn will delete both threads or request a moderator to delete (in case I don't the ability to delete).

Nice offer. I hope this follows through, it would be nice to see something good come out of this.

[Huysmans]

Originally Posted by Jim65

Nice offer. I hope this follows through, it would be nice to see something good come out of this.

What you should be doing is apologizing for your previous comment.
Have some integrity....
THAT'S what would be nice to see for an outcome of this thread...
The sanctimonious finger pointers admitting they were wrong.

[Huysmans]

Originally Posted by brewing

Welcome to the board. If you're going to collect T206's and participate in message boards, this is the place.

I'm still flabbergasted that filing a claim was your first move (especially since you sell on ebay too). Then followed up with nothing outside of the case, knowing another collector just lost money. When I requested within the ebay case to contact your PO (the last people to have it), you followed up with requesting to close the case.

The lack of concern or effort to help bothered me way more than $73.

I'm sorry it came to having your name sullied to express empathy or concern for another collector losing money. I really don't like this situation.

Since you offered to pay, I propose a $73 donation to the Negro League Museum https://nlbm.com/donations/ and post evidence on both boards of the donation. Within 24 hours I in turn will delete both threads or request a moderator to delete (in case I don't the ability to delete).

I will edit title of thread now and after deletion I will make a follow up post on Missing T206 with images of the card for record in case the card reappears.

With all due respect Brent... He cleared his name and owes you nothing.

[Jim65]

Originally Posted by Huysmans

What you should be doing is apologizing for your previous comment.
Have some integrity....
THAT'S what would be nice to see for an outcome of this thread...
The sanctimonious finger pointers admitting they were wrong.

I commented based on the evidence presented, I won't apologize for that.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by BLongley

I would defend myself and work to prove I never received it and also communicate with the seller. It’s all circumstantial evidence but then you’re offering money too quickly, and as an observer that looks like guilt.

not really, if you going to offer money anyway why drag it out and waste time..doesnt show any guilt to me, could be smart actually

[Huysmans]

Originally Posted by Jim65

I commented based on the evidence presented, I won't apologize for that.

Then you're an idiot with zero integrity.
You didn't have any "evidence", with even the OP saying everything was circumstantial.
You even commented before the accused defended themselves.

[Jim65]

Originally Posted by Huysmans

Then you're an idiot with zero integrity.
You didn't have any "evidence", with even the OP saying everything was circumstantial.
You even commented before the accused defended themselves.

Someone coming and saying they aren't guilty is hardly clearing their name. You disagee? Thats fine.

[Huysmans]

Originally Posted by Jim65

Someone coming and saying they aren't guilty is hardly clearing their name. You disagee? Thats fine.

And someone just accusing another on here is anything but fact.
But somehow you agreed with that.

You did absolutely nothing to prove his guilt...
So there's no need for him to clear his name whatsoever to you or anyone else.

[nolemmings]

Originally Posted by Huysmans

And someone just accusing another on here is anything but fact.
But somehow you agreed with that.

You did absolutely nothing to prove his guilt...
So there's no need for him to clear his name whatsoever to you or anyone else.

And you're over-reacting. Seller acted more than reasonably, and we encourage outing of scammers on this board. Buyer's "clearing" his name offers less than a gleaming report of his own behavior. Not saying he's not telling the truth but he was at least lazy or non-attentive.

Circumstantial evidence is evidence nonetheless--used in courtrooms all the time. I personally do find it odd that someone would add a card to his set registry before having it in hand, but maybe that's just me. It does show a certain zeal and enthusiasm for his collection. Then he doesn't get the card-- that can happen to anyone but how often does it happen? Then he's requested to remove it and claims he didn't pay close attention to the request because he apparently assumed it was an offer to buy a different card--doesn't even check to see what card is in question. All of this basically happening around the same time and as he chooses not to contact the seller but instead takes action with Ebay. Finally, he gets his money back, and yet after all this activity, he simply forgets to remove the card from the registry. Completely plausible, but far from blameless.

As for me, whether or not you think he has “cleared his name”, I would want nothing to do with this guy in a transaction.

[Huysmans]

Originally Posted by nolemmings

And you're over-reacting. Seller acted more than reasonably, and we encourage outing of scammers on this board. Buyer's "clearing" his name offers less than a gleaming report of his own behavior. Not saying he's not telling the truth but he was at least lazy or non-attentive.

Circumstantial evidence is evidence nonetheless--used in courtrooms all the time. I personally do find it odd that someone would add a card to his set registry before having it in hand, but maybe that's just me. It does show a certain zeal and enthusiasm for his collection. Then he doesn't get the card-- that can happen to anyone but how often does it happen? Then he's requested to remove it and claims he didn't pay close attention to the request because he apparently assumed it was an offer to buy a different card--doesn't even check to see what card is in question. All of this basically happening around the same time and as he chooses not to contact the seller but instead takes action with Ebay. Finally, he gets his money back, and yet after all this activity, he simply forgets to remove the card from the registry. Completely plausible, but far from blameless.

As for me, whether or not you think he has “cleared his name”, I would want nothing to do with this guy in a transaction.

And you're wrong.
Others including Jim opened their mouths without knowing all the facts...
I called them out on their garbage....
But I'M the one that overreacted.... That's rich.
If you think flapping your gums and talking shit about anyone without proof is ok on here like Jim, then you're part of the problem as well.

[nolemmings]

I am wrong and part of the problem. Really? Does that make me an idiot with zero integrity, as you called out Jim? Nearly everyone in this thread, many very reputable and respected members of this forum, all took umbrage with what they perceived as wrongdoing. Are they all idiots with zero integrity? Or can they make it up to you with heartfelt apologies and sincere promises of repentance?

You seem to have a problem with critical thinking and understanding what comprises proof. Your “ proof” of buyer’s innocence is his singular statement of explanation, which as I said, is plausible but hardly casts a good light. The other facts are undisputed, and yes, they are facts. The conclusions to be drawn from those facts may vary among reasonable minds, but I am underwhelmed by buyer’s story and less than inclined to give it full credence. You, by contrast, seem enthralled. Good for you.

As I stated, this forum welcomes if not encourages the disclosure of fishy transactions and suspected scams or scammers. Seller here made reasonable efforts to make contact and resolve the situation outside the forum, and was right to call it to the board’s attention when no response was forthcoming. Personally I would not have used the word thief in the initial post, but the situation was laid out well and the conclusion of wrongdoing appeared reasonable. If the same situation happens again, I hope it is brought out here once more. If people’s reactions when that occurs are “part of the problem”, then so be it.

[Huysmans]

Originally Posted by nolemmings

I am wrong and part of the problem. Really? Does that make me an idiot with zero integrity, as you called out Jim? Nearly everyone in this thread, many very reputable and respected members of this forum, all took umbrage with what they perceived as wrongdoing. Are they all idiots with zero integrity? Or can they make it up to you with heartfelt apologies and sincere promises of repentance?

You seem to have a problem with critical thinking and understanding what comprises proof. Your “ proof” of buyer’s innocence is his singular statement of explanation, which as I said, is plausible but hardly casts a good light. The other facts are undisputed, and yes, they are facts. The conclusions to be drawn from those facts may vary among reasonable minds, but I am underwhelmed by buyer’s story and less than inclined to give it full credence. You, by contrast, seem enthralled. Good for you.

As I stated, this forum welcomes if not encourages the disclosure of fishy transactions and suspected scams or scammers. Seller here made reasonable efforts to make contact and resolve the situation outside the forum, and was right to call it to the board’s attention when no response was forthcoming. Personally I would not have used the word thief in the initial post, but the situation was laid out well and the conclusion of wrongdoing appeared reasonable. If the same situation happens again, I hope it is brought out here once more. If people’s reactions when that occurs are “part of the problem”, then so be it.

You're completely missing the point and principal.
Whether the accused is guilty or not, that hasn't been PROVEN, correct?
So why talk shit?? Literally everything you said is irrelevant.
This shouldn't be hard to grasp, and your attempt at trying to rationalize this hypocritical finger pointing and accusing is pathetic.... "Everyone here is doing it blah blah blah".

And spare me the corny "critical thinking" rhetoric. Circumstantial evidence can only convict someone if there's no reasonable doubt, which is FAR from what has been reached here, hence, there is no actually proof whatsoever.
You yourself said the situation with the accused was "plausible".
You understand what that word means... right??

The world goes beyond this site and hobby Todd.
You apparently want to live in a world where people constantly shoot their mouths off about others without having all the facts.
I don't.

[farberjustin]

Originally Posted by brewing

Welcome to the board. If you're going to collect T206's and participate in message boards, this is the place.

Thanks, I'll start browsing threads

Originally Posted by brewing

I'm still flabbergasted that filing a claim was your first move (especially since you sell on ebay too). Then followed up with nothing outside of the case, knowing another collector just lost money. When I requested within the ebay case to contact your PO (the last people to have it), you followed up with requesting to close the case.
The lack of concern or effort to help bothered me way more than $73.

Again, we clearly have different communication styles. I opened a case in order to reach a resolution quickly. Buyers have done this to me as a seller as well, and I don't what other information I would need to solicit from them as a seller. Apologies again is this offended you.

Originally Posted by brewing

I'm sorry it came to having your name sullied to express empathy or concern for another collector losing money. I really don't like this situation.

I really don't like it either and really don't appreciate the terribly negative assumptions you and others in this thread have made about me. I love this hobby and have made tons of friends in it. I'm not a perfect person or overly empathic, but definitely would have expressed empathy if it was a larger loss (>$100).

Originally Posted by brewing

Since you offered to pay, I propose a $73 donation to the Negro League Museum https://nlbm.com/donations/ and post evidence on both boards of the donation. Within 24 hours I in turn will delete both threads or request a moderator to delete (in case I don't the ability to delete).

Done, thanks for picking an excellent organization.

Originally Posted by brewing

I will make a follow up post on Missing T206 with images of the card for record in case the card reappears.

Please send me the link when you do. I would love if this card eventually turns up!

[Directly]

I recently purchased a Ty Cobb card "signature required" --when I went to pick-up, the card was already in my P.O Box--I didn't sign for it--could a buyer have claim it wasn't received although showed delivered or what if the card was put into the wrong P.O Box by error?---its very possible that's what happened in this scenario. (fortunately my purchase was delivered to my PO Box)

[luciobar1980]

Originally Posted by Beastmode

This guy Justin is a piece of work. Already on my block list. F' him and his BS story. Another citizen in america that takes no responsibility, faces no consequences, and f's other people. He can f' himself.

Dude, you're the worst.

[swarmee]

Originally Posted by Directly

I recently purchased a Ty Cobb card "signature required" --when I went to pick-up, the card was already in my P.O Box--I didn't sign for it--could a buyer have claim it wasn't received although showed delivered or what if the card was put into the wrong P.O Box by error?---its very possible that's what happened in this scenario. (fortunately my purchase was delivered to my PO Box)

This is happening all the time right now because the carriers aren't required to get signatures during coronavirus, depending on the region and/or carrier. So if it happens with USPS, you go to your local Postmaster and report it missing. They can check the GPS location of where it was supposedly "delivered." Otherwise, you start knocking on the doors of your neighbors and see if any of them got it on accidents/purpose and if they'll return it.

[nolemmings]

Originally Posted by Huysmans

You're completely missing the point and principal.
Whether the accused is guilty or not, that hasn't been PROVEN, correct?
So why talk shit?? Literally everything you said is irrelevant.
This shouldn't be hard to grasp, and you're attempt at trying to rationalize this hypocritical finger pointing and accusing is pathetic.... "Everyone here is doing it blah blah blah".

And spare me the corny "critical thinking" rhetoric. Circumstantial evidence can only convict someone if there's no reasonable doubt, which is FAR from what has been reached here, hence, there is no actually proof whatsoever.
You yourself said the situation with the accused was "plausible".
You understand what that word means... right??

The world goes beyond this site and hobby Todd.
You apparently want to live in a world where people constantly shoot their mouths off about others without having all the facts.
I don't.

I am rationalizing nothing, just asking you to make clear that these other folks, and me too apparently, are idiots and without integrity. Shame on us all, right? At least have the balls to do that. C’mon, say it big man.

Also, stop reading the wikilaw or whatever learned treatise you consulted, Thurgood, and hone your grammar or at least learn what words like literally and hypocritical mean (I suspect the word relevant is beyond your grasp). You don’t need to prove conversion– the civil analog of theft or misappropriation-beyond a reasonable doubt. This isn’t a trial or a courtroom proceeding in any event. The people here, at least for the most part , are not as much interested in seeing a $73 dispute go to court as they are knowing who out there is likely to pose problems for them if they transact business. And as I said, I for one would not want to deal with a buyer whose conduct, even taking his words as true, is questionable. Others may choose differently, more power to them.

So what should seller do with regard to this forum if this happens again? How about he posts the possible scam but puts in a disclaimer saying, now guys, this is just informational only, let’s wait 2, 3-6 weeks to see if buyer responds, never mind that I just showed you how he did not respond to me on my prior attempts and laid out the transaction timeline. No negative opinions please, and by all means, just tell me you feel bad for me, don’t take it out on my wholly innocent ebay buyer.

Yeah, good luck with that. But since the world indeed moves beyond this hobby and net54, perhaps you would be better served enjoying what that world has to offer, and leave us idiots with no integrity to our own sinful devices here.

[Huysmans]

Originally Posted by nolemmings

I am rationalizing nothing, just asking you to make clear that these other folks, and me too apparently, are idiots and without integrity. Shame on us all, right? At least have the balls to do that. C’mon, say it big man.

Also, stop reading the wikilaw or whatever learned treatise you consulted, Thurgood, and hone your grammar or at least learn what words like literally and hypocritical mean (I suspect the word relevant is beyond your grasp). You don’t need to prove conversion– the civil analog of theft or misappropriation-beyond a reasonable doubt. This isn’t a trial or a courtroom proceeding in any event. The people here, at least for the most part , are not as much interested in seeing a $73 dispute go to court as they are knowing who out there is likely to pose problems for them if they transact business. And as I said, I for one would not want to deal with a buyer whose conduct, even taking his words as true, is questionable. Others may choose differently, more power to them.

So what should seller do with regard to this forum if this happens again? How about he posts the possible scam but puts in a disclaimer saying, now guys, this is just informational only, let’s wait 2, 3-6 weeks to see if buyer responds, never mind that I just showed you how he did not respond to me on my prior attempts and laid out the transaction timeline. No negative opinions please, and by all means, just tell me you feel bad for me, don’t take it out on my wholly innocent ebay buyer.

Yeah, good luck with that. But since the world indeed moves beyond this hobby and net54, perhaps you would be better served enjoying what that world has to offer, and leave us idiots with no integrity to our own sinful devices here.

... Being too harsh as I don't know you personally, but disagree still with what you said, I will edit what I just wrote and posted, as I can admit when I've gone too far....

In saying that, I'll leave it with this....
Jim and others who disparaged the accused without knowing all the facts, and without at least hearing some response from the other party, I think were wrong in doing so.

[Casey2296]

I just donated $73.83 to the Negro League Museum, inspired by this thread.

Lets see how many other Net54 members can donate the same amount just to put a smile on the face of the Museum directors when they receive a bunch of $73.83 donations from random members.

Its a much better use of time instead of bickering like old married folks.

[farberjustin]

Originally Posted by Casey2296

I just donated $73.83 to the Negro League Museum, inspired by this thread.

Lets see how many other Net54 members can donate the same amount just to put a smile on the face of the Museum directors when they receive a bunch of $73.83 donations from random members.

Its a much better use of time instead of bickering like old married folks.

Love it! I rounded mine up to $74 but wish I had done the .83 haha

[commishbob]

I’m in as well

7454ED4E-BD50-4E25-B129-EAFF219770E4.jpg

[Rhotchkiss]

Done. I just donated $73.84 to the museum. Great idea!! Let’s turn this shit-show of a thread into a good thing

See alternative thread on donating called member challenge

[Gorditadogg]

Here is mine.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk