A Very interesting auction

[RichardSimon]

I know there are sellers and auctioneers who shop authenticators, just looking for one good COA.
But this is certainly different.
Check out the description for this baseball.
Never saw an auction house say it quite this way.
I have to commend them for their honesty about the COA, I guess.
JSA and PSA mano ah mano.

http://catalog.scpauctions.com/LotDe...EAGUE-BASEBALL

[travrosty]

oops, now people dont know who to trust. but most dont care, as long as it comes with a cert from one of the big 2. they trust spence when jsa gives it the cert but psa doesnt.

but then again, they trust psa when psa gives it the cert and spence as JSA doesn't. People just want the cert. But scp certainly didnt have to disclose it if they didnt want to, as it is just jsa and psa opinion, and how many peoples opinion do they have to disclose, that Chad Watertown of Hacksville, Tennessee didn't like it either. It all comes down to "if it has a jsa cert, it has a jsa cert", "if it has psa, it has psa." there has never been any guarantee that if it gets one, it will automatically get the other.

But David Wells must not be happy about that disclosure.


This looks like a case of these companies not getting together beforehand to decide whether or not they will agree to both cert it or not.

but the balldome example of the high end Ruth signed baseball is only JSA certed I heard.

http://www.beckett.com/news/2011/11/...hed-baseballs/

So who are you gonna trust?

[J.McMurry]

Sounds to me like they're just letting you know that if you buy this ball and PSA rejects it later, dont come to them for a refund cause they warned you up front it had already been rejected by them.

[RichardSimon]

And what happens if you buy it and Ron K. rejects it??

[Splinte1941]

I agree with Travis that the TPA's have created a sort of Chicken and Egg dilemma when it comes to autographs. At the end of the day, it's pure opinion backed up with what one would hope is some educated experience.

As I argued in the Williams auction thread, this is the world collectors now live in, whether we like it or not. I don't collect for resale, however, at some point in the future, I will sell my collection or pass it on to someone who may sell it. If I have an autograph in that collection that has a COA from one of the two major TPA's it will unquestionably NOT HURT the ability to sell that piece. If I have an autograph that has been rejected or simply doesn't have a COA, common sense dictates it would be more difficult to unload it.

The industry has given PSA and Spence carte blanche, for better or worse. My situation is my situation. I am not a COA shopper, but I also don't like to get in my car everyday and drive to work without car insurance.

[travrosty]

Originally Posted by Splinte1941

I agree with Travis that the TPA's have created a sort of Chicken and Egg dilemma when it comes to autographs. At the end of the day, it's pure opinion backed up with what one would hope is some educated experience.

As I argued in the Williams auction thread, this is the world collectors now live in, whether we like it or not. I don't collect for resale, however, at some point in the future, I will sell my collection or pass it on to someone who may sell it. If I have an autograph in that collection that has a COA from one of the two major TPA's it will unquestionably NOT HURT the ability to sell that piece. If I have an autograph that has been rejected or simply doesn't have a COA, common sense dictates it would be more difficult to unload it.

The industry has given PSA and Spence carte blanche, for better or worse. My situation is my situation. I am not a COA shopper, but I also don't like to get in my car everyday and drive to work without car insurance.

psa or jsa certs are NOT insurance, because they don't guarantee anything, you can't sue if psa or jsa doesn't like the item you bought from someone else. Why do people think their certs are gold and are backed by something? I don't get it. They will bail on their opinion in two seconds if they want to.

if you keep it for 30 years, they wont even be around anymore, just like people who are stuck with gai certs, the best thing to do is buy something you personally know is authentic, then get a cert for it just before you sell some 5, 10 , 30 years later, so the cert is relevant, that is if certs are important, and you just cant live without one.

[Splinte1941]

Originally Posted by travrosty

psa or jsa certs are NOT insurance, because they don't guarantee anything, you can't sue if psa or jsa doesn't like the item you bought from someone else. Why do people think their certs are gold and are backed by something? I don't get it. They will bail on their opinion in two seconds if they want to.

if you keep it for 30 years, they wont even be around anymore, just like people who are stuck with gai certs, the best thing to do is buy something you personally know is authentic, then get a cert for it just before you sell some 5, 10 , 30 years later, so the cert is relevant, that is if certs are important, and you just cant live without one.

Travis, you keep missing or ignoring my point. I agree with you wholeheartedly that these certs are only as good as the person putting their faith in them. I make the analogy to insurance in a loose sense in that they MAY help you unload the piece in the future if you so choose to do it. Just like car insurance MAY cover an accident. Not much in life is guaranteed, as we all know.

I have a signed Ted Williams photo that a TPA has decided not to give an opinion on. Fine. No one alive today saw him sign that photo, so at the end of the day its 100% total speculation, whether there's 400 COA stickers attached to the photo or not. My point was simply that in the world we live in today, most people including myself would rather have one than not, based on the hand the industry has been dealt, regardless of how you feel about TPA's in general.

[travrosty]

Originally Posted by J.McMurry

Sounds to me like they're just letting you know that if you buy this ball and PSA rejects it later, dont come to them for a refund cause they warned you up front it had already been rejected by them.

they couldnt come for a refund anyway, because neither jsa or psa guarantees their opinion, and no one signed a contract saying that refunds will be paid out if psa or jsa rejects an item. is psa and jsa kings and we are peasants that we are bound to their opinions? Two guys are running the entire show and we are at their mercy?

[mighty bombjack]

Originally Posted by travrosty

they couldnt come for a refund anyway, because neither jsa or psa guarantees their opinion, and no one signed a contract saying that refunds will be paid out if psa or jsa rejects an item. is psa and jsa kings and we are peasants that we are bound to their opinions? Two guys are running the entire show and we are at their mercy?

He's talking about coming to SCP for the refund (I believe).

I guess I can stand with Richard and commend them for being honest, but it does raise the question of whose opinion needs to be included. It seems to be almost standard practice for major auction houses to have both JSA and PSA/DNA cents (or pre-certs or whatever else they do/call them now). So when they have one, do they feel the need to at least reference the other now, so as to deflect future problems? Like, if you're gonna flip this on eBay, you're fine because it has JSA, but not if you try Heritage, cuz PSA aint gonna pre-cert it?

Wonder what would happen if this ball hit Leland's?

[RichardSimon]

We had a poll here a while ago and the vote was overwhelming that in a question of who should issue a refund in the event an autograph is not authentic, and has been issued a COA. The group voted that the dealer is responsible for refunding the money.
Travis and I have pointed out many things that are wrong with TPA's. But even I don't think they should be held financially responsible for an error, except in the most egregious circumstances. To me a mistake like the Cobb cut and the Delehanty letter are egregious mistakes.
I know I keep pounding on that Delehanty letter, but geez did PSA and JSA actually think the guy misspelled his own name??

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by travrosty

But David Wells must not be happy about that disclosure.

I wonder who he bought the ball from?
It is common knowledge he bought the Babe Ruth hat from Mark Jordan and I think he was a good customer of Mr. Jordan.