Gun ownership poll

[AustinMike]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Michael, if "pro-abortion" is not the best or most neutral term, then neither is "pro-choice," which is a feelgood phase that misleadingly implies that all that is involved is a decision by a single individual.

Whether or not to have an abortion IS a choice, usually decided by either one or two (the father if he's around) people. It's not a "feelgood" phrase, it's simply a phrase that best describes the one side of the issue - that a woman should be able to choose whether she has an abortion or not. Whether to have an abortion or not is an agonizing choice women must make after very careful consideration. It doesn't mean they are pro-abortion, it means that at that moment, choosing to have an abortion is best for them.

The whole issue regarding abortion comes down to one question - when does life begin? If a person believes life begins at conception, then they should be against abortions and should choose not to have one. But, not everyone believes that life begins at conception. I don't (that's why I can be pro-life and pro-choice). Women who choose to have an abortion most likely do not. Many other people do not believe life begins at conception. By not allowing a pregnant woman to abort the unborn fetus if that is her choice, a person who believes life begins at conception is imposing their BELIEF on that woman. She's being denied her choice. Earlier you were talking about extreme views - my belief is that believing life begins at conception is the extreme view. Many extreme responses are required to fully implement that view.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by AustinMike

But, not everyone believes that life begins at conception. I don't (that's why I can be pro-life and pro-choice).

It's proven science that life begins at conception whether you want to believe it or not. That's why Roe vs. Wade is now a more hot button topic than ever because the science wasn't around back then. You can believe that the world is flat if you want to and that's certainly your choice, but science would prove you wrong. Conversely, science has proven that life begins with conception.

But, just out of curiosity, when do you believe that life begins?

[AustinMike]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

It's proven science that life begins at conception whether you want to believe it or not. That's why Roe vs. Wade is now a more hot button topic than ever because the science was around back then. You can believe that the world is flat if you want to and that's certainly your choice, but science would prove you wrong. Conversely, science has proven that life begins with conception.

But, just out of curiosity, when do you believe that life begins?

Please show me a where a preponderance of scientific papers claim life begins at conception. I'll wait .....

I don't have a clear cut moment at when I think life begins. It's definitely not before there is a heartbeat. I would put it somewhere along the line of when the fetus can survive on its own.

But, since YOU believe life begins at conception, where's your moral outrage at all of the fertilized eggs (i.e., conception) that are naturally aborted?

https://www.ucsfhealth.org/education...issed%20menses.

"In nature, 50 percent of all fertilized eggs are lost before a woman's missed menses."

Why aren't you and people like you demanding that women who lose a fertilized egg be charged with a crime at the loss of life ... charge them with involuntary manslaughter or something. Why aren't you demanding that every time they have a bloody discharge, the discharge needs to be sent in to be checked for fertilized eggs (a now dead life)? That way you can punish them for ending that life.

Why aren't workers at fertility clinics where they plant multiple fertilized eggs in a woman charged with murder if every egg isn't born?

Why? Because most people do not actually believe that life begins at conception. Either that or they're not really concerned about the staggering loss of life.

[BobbyStrawberry]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

It's proven science that life begins at conception whether you want to believe it or not. That's why Roe vs. Wade is now a more hot button topic than ever because the science wasn't around back then. You can believe that the world is flat if you want to and that's certainly your choice, but science would prove you wrong. Conversely, science has proven that life begins with conception.

But, just out of curiosity, when do you believe that life begins?

Interesting, the selectivity with which humans often choose to rely on "proven science" in their beliefs and decisions.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Here's an interesting piece on that "extreme" view of life.

https://abort73.com/abortion/abortio...pocratic_oath/

[AustinMike]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Here's an interesting piece on that "extreme" view of life.

https://abort73.com/abortion/abortio...pocratic_oath/

Okay, so let me ask you. At fertility clinics, they fertilize eggs to implant in a woman. Not every fertilized egg is born. So, since every fertilized egg is a human life, who is responsible for the deaths of the fertilized eggs that aren't born? Who gets charged with the crime of murder?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by AustinMike

Okay, so let me ask you. At fertility clinics, they fertilize eggs to implant in a woman. Not every fertilized egg is born. So, since every fertilized egg is a human life, who is responsible for the deaths of the fertilized eggs that aren't born? Who gets charged with the crime of murder?

In her dissent from the commerce clause majority view in the Obamacare case, Justice Ginsburg quoted something Robert Bork once said or wrote to the effect that just because you can hypothesize a slippery slope, doesn't mean you have to ski it to the bottom. Almost any belief in this world could be challenged by the Socratic method, but that doesn't invalidate them all.