Leap of Faith -- what is YOUR jumping off point

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Posted By: Rich Klein

Since Barry thought this was a fair and reasonable question, I have decided to make this an seperate thread.

At some point, everyone has their moment when they are ready to accept their cards as being graded correctly, their autographs as being verified authentic, and/or their memorabilia as being verified as legit.

Everyone has a different point: Jim C's point is he is only currently OK with anything new if Kevin authenticates it. Barry S's point is that he recieves cards from consignors, he sends them off (almost always to SGC -- just don't want to use an absolute Barry -- as an English professor I'm sure you understand why) to a 3rd party professional grader so they can sell better in his auctions. Some collectors are OK buying cards raw off EBay with scans they find acceptable,....

But at some point, we are all making a decision that the item we want (cards, memorabilia, autographs) are acceptable to us. It seems to me, that we go round and round about that everyone has to have the same point. That to me, is one of the arguments that will never end and we'll always have Jim C. and Barry S. disagreeing about this (at least in their case, it is professionaly argued and nothing personal seeps in)

Here is the question: This is NOT a poll, there is not a right or a wrong answer -- and to me, these create the best discussions.

Jim C believes he will take the leap of faith ONLY after Kevin looks at any card he (Jim) is thinking of purchasing

Barry believes that once the card is properly slabbed, then he can take the leap of faith to sell the card.

What is YOUR leap of faith for purchasing or selling cards or memorabilia items?

Regards
Rich

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Posted By: leon

Good question.....Personally I have always bought collector grade cards (fr-ex, for the most part) and my leap of faith doesn't have to be much.....I have handled enough cards to see any big issues with cards in this condition range, for the most part. I do avoid high grade cards, especially when not in an SGC holder........btw, the few high grade cards I have all have good provenance...which, to me, is important. regards

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Posted By: barrysloate

I'm not a card collector, but I still have to make the same leap when I buy cards or accept consignments. I have complete faith in accepting and submitting cards to SGC; I feel comfortable with PSA cards but will give them a little closer look; and unfortunately I must say that I have to give GAI cards an even closer look. Same with BVG; I don't think they always get it right.

I guess the leap of faith is based on my trust in the people in charge, and I have enough confidence in the SGC people that I see no reason to subject their product to a second opinion.

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Posted By: CN

About 2 years ago I started buying mostly cards graded exclusively by SGC after years of buying raw cards. I know I am paying more but I felt slightly burned in several transactions over E-bay with minor flaws on a few cards that I purchased. I still go to the Philly Show every year and I usually buy raw as I can inspect the card. CN

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Posted By: Frank Wakefield

I'm almost on board with Leon's approach... I can look at most of the cards I'm interested in, and come to a solid decision as to the card's authenticity. I usually seek G - VG cards, can live with Ex and Fair... I'd rather have a card that has a bit of wear, so I'm not afraid to touch it.

I'm not a big fan of 3rd party grading, as most folks know and few care... It has always seemed to me that I know as much or more about cards as they do. Sometimes I don't agree with their grade, and they may well be right more often on that than I am. And, sometimes I don't agree with their identification or description of a card, and I know they've gotten that wrong.

I don't have a Fro Joy card. Enough shenanigans have gone on with those that I'm not comfortable discerning real from good fake, assuming a good fake passes a black light test. If I were about to acquire a Fro Joy, I'd seek out a fellow collector that I thought could tell the difference. I'd trust that more than I would some grading company's opinion.

When I buy a gem stone, I go to jewelers that I trust. I know a bit about gems, but not a significant amount. For ball cards, I think I know enough to not get burned. After all, buying a slabbed card on eBay isn't risk free, especially if the seller has pilfered the scan and isn't going to send you the card...

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Posted By: Dave Hornish

I guess it depends. On Ebay I almost always want to buy T and E cards in a slab, unless the seller is really a specialist in prewar cards. I am still feeling my way on those.

For R cards both pre and post war I feel confident enoough to buy raw if an opportunity arises. I deslab just about everything I buy, with a couple of exceptions, and keep the flips.

At a show, when I can handle the merch, I usually buy raw.

Most of my prewar stuff would average G at best and I feel more comfortable buying well-loved cards as there is generally less risk of alteration.

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Posted By: David Bowden

Since I am relativaly new into vintage, I must put a lot of faith in PSA or SGC. I know that they know more than me at this point. Most of the graded cards I collect are graded 3-5. I feel that at 7 and above it gets too subjective and feel comfotable buying cards below that level. The few times that I do buy raw cards I only buy from well known people and only buy cards I expect to grade a 2 or lower. That way even if I'm wrong I can't get hurt that bad.

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Posted By: Solomon Cramer

This can really go for much of anything - cars, jewelry, sports collectibles, real estate, etc.

Cards - almost never had a problem, I often made the comment "If it's good enough to get by me it's as good as legit." For the tens of millions of dollars of cards I handled, I'd be suprised if I was burnt on more than $20K in merchandise at my cost, including counterfiets, trimmed cards, etc.

Autographs - I need one of three things. Either certification by PSA/DNA, certification by an "original" company (Steiner, UDA, someone reputable who witnessed the auto), or a strong comfort level in the item/source (a bank check, an item directly from the player, etc.). Outside of that, I largely assumed it was fake.

So much of what I did was based on added value, so I rarely paid full price for anything already certified. My business was to take the risk out of an item's purchase.

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Posted By: E, Daniel

The fact I can spend good money on pieces of old cardboard always strikes me in my saner moments as ridiculous, and that I have convinced myself they actually have real monetary value and could be sold to recoup those costs is surely but an illusory hope. Every time I buy a card - I feel like I'm jumping off the proverbial logic plank into this strange world of other similarly delusional people......so from there - on, including fakes, grading, choice of player or issues to collect, and any other collector choices I face, well, that all seems to follow pretty easily from such a crazy initial premise.
Good thing its fun to be crazy .


Daniel

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Posted By: Dave Hornish

Solomon-first I've seen of you here-I miss your old auctions!

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Posted By: James Gallo

Liek many others I buy mostly mid grade stuff or lower. I don't get into the high end stuff much yet, so most of my stuff is in the 2-5 range.

That being said Cracker Jacks are probably the only early cards where I feel a high level of comfort and could buy raw with ease even on ebay.

Anything else I want is slabbed, from a rock solid source or in a collection.

I have been badly burned on both PSA and GAI Cracker Jacks where the cards had issues not seen or described in the ebay auctions. This was only twice but I took a 2 grade hit on both cards and they went from 4's to 1.5 and I am still stuck with them.

As such I would never have a problem buying a SGC card. I will ask further questions about pre-war PSA stuff and I will never ever ever buy a GAI card unless I see it in person. This was my opinion long before all the recent mess.

As far as auto's go, well I don't buy too many of them and most of what I have I got myself so I know they are all right from the player.

I do find it interesting that one of the previous posters preferred PSA or GAI coa's on auto's with no mention of JSA. JSA was close to me so I used them on most of my stuff. I don't follow that market close enough but would people really doubt things with JSA coa's? Then again every now and then I hear about bad stuff that has a GAI or PSA coa as well, so I am not sure where I would be on that and I would have to do a lot more research or buy something like a check or directly from the player.

James G

Looking for 1915 Cracker Jacks and 1909-11 American Caramel E90-1.

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Posted By: barry arnold

The hierarchy of trust which Barry Sloate delineates so adeptly is mine as well.
SGC and then some others.

best,

barry

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Posted By: boxingcardman

I've been a collector for 30+ years. I've undoubtedly forgotten more than most graders know about cards. I do not trust any slabber 100%; I trust SGC the most of them but even they mess up occasionally.

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Posted By: davidcycle

For most people in most walks of life, they will take a bigger leap of faith during a purchase when they know they can return it for refund.

People who hear that Frisch's card grading is not standard purchase site unseen from the Frisch catalog as they know they're liberal about returns.

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Posted By: peter chao

I purchase vintage in vg to ex condition and it works out well because I can purchase raw and graded cards. When I look at a card I simply ask whether the card has normal wear and tear and if it does and is decently centered I can feel comfortable buying.

It works out well. Abnormal wear and tear presents a problem because it leaves open the possibility that the card has been doctored. For instance, if a card has nice sharp corners but has major creases, you start worrying that the creases were added later in time. I stay away from these types of cards.

Peter C.