assault weapon ban again

[vintagetoppsguy]

Gun control laws do not/will not keep guns out of the hands of those who wish to do others harm. The case of the guy who shot the two firefighters this past week prove that. By law, he was not allowed to own a gun (he was a convicted felon). Instead, he had his neighbor purchase them for him. He's now dead and the neighbor is now facing federal charges. This does not bring back the lives of the two firefighters. My prayers go out to their families.

For those who want stricter gun laws, please tell me what could have been done differently in this situation? The system itself worked, it prevented him from legally obtaining a firearm. The problem is that criminals will always find a way around the legal system. To think otherwise is foolish.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Gun control laws do not/will not keep guns out of the hands of those who wish to do others harm. The case of the guy who shot the two firefighters this past week prove that. By law, he was not allowed to own a gun (he was a convicted felon). Instead, he had his neighbor purchase them for him. He's now dead and the neighbor is now facing federal charges. This does not bring back the lives of the two firefighters. My prayers go out to their families.

For those who want stricter gun laws, please tell me what could have been done differently in this situation? The system itself worked, it prevented him from legally obtaining a firearm. The problem is that criminals will always find a way around the legal system. To think otherwise is foolish.

I agree with almost everything you say David. The criminals will always have guns. What we do when we create laws is we keep the good people from doing something bad not the bad people from doing something bad. Bad people will always find a way. I think we can appease folks with a law about automatic (or semi automatic) weapons but I don't think it really helps the problem.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by Leon

I think we can appease folks with a law about automatic (or semi automatic) weapons but I don't think it really helps the problem.

If it results in less carnage during these attacks, then I'm for it. People can find another way to kill wild hogs.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Runscott

If it results in less carnage during these attacks, then I'm for it. People can find another way to kill wild hogs.

As was previously stated, but I haven't personally confirmed it, there have been 0 instances of legally owned automatic weapons being used in a massacre. I don't understand why people grasp onto something that has never happened in 75+ yrs? But hey, if it makes you feel better about there being less carnage, go for it. I have heard worse fallacies.

I can easily see a ban on fully automatic assault weapons just to appease the folks that want a ban on them (as I stated). It will help 0 though in what is the real problem (and I am in the camp it's more the mental issues going untreated). No one in their right mind goes on a shooting rampage against un-associated people.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by Leon

As was previously stated, but I haven't personally confirmed it, there have been 0 instances of legally owned automatic weapons being used in a massacre. I don't understand why people grasp onto something that has never happened in 75+ yrs? But hey, if it makes you feel better about there being less carnage, go for it. I have heard worse fallacies.

I can easily see a ban on fully automatic assault weapons just to appease the folks that want a ban on them (as I stated). It will help 0 though in what is the real problem (and I am in the camp it's more the mental issues going untreated). No one in their right mind goes on a shooting rampage against un-associated people.

Sorry, Leon - I didn't see the previous weapon to 'automatic'. I'm talking about the firepower needed to kill the wild hogs, which I think is around 40-60 rpm, according to the wild hog hunters on this board.

I totally get the fixation on the word 'automatic' by both sides - the non-gun people don't understand the term, and the gun people will fixate on the use of that term to avoid dealing with the issue, which is mass-killings by guns that aren't actually necessary for hunting, self-defense or anything else other than mental [male member] enlargement. Just my thoughts - I'm all for citizens being able to own guns - BIG guns. Just not that big.

Edited to add: I was responding to "automatic (or semi automatic) weapons". I thought 'semi automatic' was the term used for the 40-60 rpm guns such as the one used by the killer in Connecticut? If not, what are such weapons called?

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by Runscott

Edited to add: I was responding to "automatic (or semi automatic) weapons". I thought 'semi automatic' was the term used for the 40-60 rpm guns such as the one used by the killer in Connecticut? If not, what are such weapons called?

Automatic and semi-automatic are really terms used to describe the action that is required to move the bullet from the feed tube (or magazine) into the chamber. There are basically 4 types of rifles:

1.) Lever action. These are my personal favorite. I own five of them. There is a lever on the bottom of the rifle that has to be cocked every time before a bullet is fired. The lever is pulled down and the expended shell is ejected. The lever is pulled back up and a new shell is extracted from the feed tube into the chamber. The gun is ready to fire again. You see these types guns in old westerns, they've been around forever.

2.) Bolt action. Has is a sliding bolt that is pulled back and the expended shell is ejected and a new shell is extracted from the feed tube or magazine by pushing the bolt forward again and locking it into place. Very popular in WW2.

Most hunters are going to either use a lever action or bolt action rifle.

3.) Pump action. Pump action is mostly for shotguns, some older .22s. There is a fore stock (grip) that has to be slid (pumped) back and forth. The sliding of the fore stock ejects to expended shell and when you slide it back it extracts a shell from the feed tube into the chamber.

4.) Automatic/Semi-automatic. No action is required. This is the main difference. After each shot, the shell automatically ejects and a new shell is extracted from the magazine into the chamber.

So what's the difference between automatic and semi-automatic? On an automatic rifle, you pull the trigger and it fires continuously until your finger lets off the trigger. On a semi-automatic rifle, you have to pull the trigger each time it is fired - it is not capable of continuous fire. It will only fire as fast as you can pull the trigger.

Now think about this. Let's say you want to buy a rifle for home defense, nothing more. If someone were to break into your house and you had an opportunity to grab your rifle, do you want a rifle that requires an action (lever, bolt or pump) every time you want to fire, or do you want a rifle that automatically does it for you? In other words, do you want to waste valuable seconds cocking the gun each time you want to fire a shot or do you want to pull the trigger however many times it takes until he is dead?

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Automatic and semi-automatic are really terms used to describe the action that is required to move the bullet from the feed tube (or magazine) into the chamber. There are basically 4 types of rifles:

1.) Lever action. These are my personal favorite. I own five of them. There is a lever on the bottom of the rifle that has to be cocked every time before a bullet is fired. The lever is pulled down and the expended shell is ejected. The lever is pulled back up and a new shell is extracted from the feed tube into the chamber. The gun is ready to fire again. You see these types guns in old westerns, they've been around forever.

2.) Bolt action. Has is a sliding bolt that is pulled back and the expended shell is ejected and a new shell is extracted from the feed tube or magazine by pushing the bolt forward again and locking it into place. Very popular in WW2.

Most hunters are going to either use a lever action or bolt action rifle.

3.) Pump action. Pump action is mostly for shotguns, some older .22s. There is a fore stock (grip) that has to be slid (pumped) back and forth. The sliding of the fore stock ejects to expended shell and when you slide it back it extracts a shell from the feed tube into the chamber.

4.) Automatic/Semi-automatic. No action is required. This is the main difference. After each shot, the shell automatically ejects and a new shell is extracted from the magazine into the chamber.

So what's the difference between automatic and semi-automatic? On an automatic rifle, you pull the trigger and it fires continuously until your finger lets off the trigger. On a semi-automatic rifle, you have to pull the trigger each time it is fired - it is not capable of continuous fire. It will only fire as fast as you can pull the trigger.

Now think about this. Let's say you want to buy a rifle for home defense, nothing more. If someone were to break into your house and you had an opportunity to grab your rifle, do you want a rifle that requires an action (lever, bolt or pump) every time you want to fire, or do you want a rifle that automatically does it for you? In other words, do you want to waste valuable seconds cocking the gun each time you want to fire a shot or do you want to pull the trigger however many times it takes until he is dead?

David, perhaps there are people who live in situations where they need guns that they can fire rapidly, in order to defend their homes. I'm not there and it's hard to imagine, but it sounds like that's the situation you are living in. Please keep posting so that we know you are okay.

edited to add: (that last comment was meant to be humorous, not sarcastic) By the way, I used to live in southeast Houston, in a bad area. My girlfriend's home was robbed while we were at a movie back in 1982, so I bought a gun the next day. I sold it when my kids got older, as I felt that a gun in my home (any gun) would have much more likelihood of being used accidentally, or against me, than by me. I still feel the same way, but if I lived in a different environment I might feel differently. Certainly I would want a gun if I lived out in the middle of nowhere.