Will you get vaccinated against COVID once it's available?

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by MooseDog

Ever known anyone who contracted polio or smallpox lately?

Anybody die of the polio or smallpox vaccines lately?

Anyone die of the Covid vaccine lately?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Any medical intervention north of a Band Aid is going to involve some risk. That risk has to be assessed in the context of the potential benefit, both at an individual and societal level.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Any medical intervention north of a Band Aid is going to involve some risk. That risk has to be assessed in the context of the potential benefit, both at an individual and societal level.

Agreed. So what's wrong with waiting until all possible risks have been discovered, and then one can make up their own mind if the benefits out weight the risks? After all, none of the vaccines are even FDA approved at this point.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Agreed. So what's wrong with waiting until all possible risks have been discovered, and then one can make up their own mind if the benefits out weight the risks? After all, none of the vaccines are even FDA approved at this point.

I am not judging anyone for their decision one way or the other.

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Anybody die of the polio or smallpox vaccines lately?

Anyone die of the Covid vaccine lately?

How many people have died of Covid?

I think this bears repeating.

This is just a snap shot of 20 random days in January. People say they want more data, but then ignore it when it's given to them.

Are you really more afraid of the vaccine, then you are of actual, honest to goodness Covid?

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

Are you really more afraid of the vaccine, then you are of actual, honest to goodness Covid?

Honest to goodness? Yes, I am. I'll turn 50 years old in just under 2 months. I haven't been sick in over 45 years (since I was 5 years old). I don't get the flu. I don't catch common colds. I don't even get as much as the sniffles. The last time I was at the doctor was in 1994 when I was required to take a physical to process out of the Army.

To be honest, I do get a flu shot every year and have for decades and maybe that has something to do with my good health, but I am much more afraid of a vaccination than I am of getting sick from Covid. And I've had 2 direct contact exposures where everyone else at the gathering came down with it...except me (and I was tested each time).

[Peter_Spaeth]

When it works well -- and of course in many individuals it doesn't -- the human immune system is a wonder to behold.

[hockeyhockey]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Honest to goodness? Yes, I am. I'll turn 50 years old in just under 2 months. I haven't been sick in over 45 years (since I was 5 years old). I don't get the flu. I don't catch common colds. I don't even get as much as the sniffles. The last time I was at the doctor was in 1994 when I was required to take a physical to process out of the Army.

To be honest, I do get a flu shot every year and have for decades and maybe that has something to do with my good health, but I am much more afraid of a vaccination than I am of getting sick from Covid. And I've had 2 direct contact exposures where everyone else at the gathering came down with it...except me (and I was tested each time).

so in other words you are bruce willis from that terrible movie unbreakable with samuel jackson. pretty sweet. hope your good fortune continues.

[irv]

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

How many people have died of Covid?

I think this bears repeating.

This is just a snap shot of 20 random days in January. People say they want more data, but then ignore it when it's given to them.

Are you really more afraid of the vaccine, then you are of actual, honest to goodness Covid?

Great question, Dave. How many "have actually" died of covid?

Heat attacks, heart disease, kidney disease, diabetes, respiratory disease, neonatal conditions, diarrhoeal diseases and stroke death numbers are way down. Why is that?
""Covid deaths...??? In 2018 - 2019 in the us the "residual" death total was 744k and 758k. This is a category is used for non autopsy. Remarkable that in 2020 this number went down to 188k? These numbers are from the cdc check them out yourself, there are more"

Why is it I know more people that have died after getting the vaccine than I do those that died of covid?
Why is it, after those that get the vaccine, do they need to continue to wear masks, isolate, and social distance?
Why would I get a vaccine if I have to continue living my life like those that haven't had it, and especially since there is no actual proof that I have seen it actually does anything?
Like what was said above, I have, personally, a better survival rate not getting the vaccine than I do if I get one.

And also like I said before, if you want one, fill your boots, but trying to convince me by calling me and others anti-vaxxers no matter how hard you try with your Liberal shaming tactics, isn't going to work.

Here, watch this Bill Maher video, and don't worry, he attacks both sides equally.
https://youtu.be/Qp3gy_CLXho

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by irv

Great question, Dave. How many "have actually" died of covid?

Heat attacks, heart disease, kidney disease, diabetes, respiratory disease, neonatal conditions, diarrhoeal diseases and stroke death numbers are way down. Why is that?
""Covid deaths...??? In 2018 - 2019 in the us the "residual" death total was 744k and 758k. This is a category is used for non autopsy. Remarkable that in 2020 this number went down to 188k? These numbers are from the cdc check them out yourself, there are more"

Why is it I know more people that have died after getting the vaccine than I do those that died of covid?
Why is it, after those that get the vaccine, do they need to continue to wear masks, isolate, and social distance?
Why would I get a vaccine if I have to continue living my life like those that haven't had it, and especially since there is no actual proof that I have seen it actually does anything?
Like what was said above, I have, personally, a better survival rate not getting the vaccine than I do if I get one.

And also like I said before, if you want one, fill your boots, but trying to convince me by calling me and others anti-vaxxers no matter how hard you try with your Liberal shaming tactics, isn't going to work.

Here, watch this Bill Maher video, and don't worry, he attacks both sides equally.
https://youtu.be/Qp3gy_CLXho

"Liberal Shaming Tactics?"

You're the one who just made it political, and you're not really interested in answers to any of your questions, so I'm just going to assume they're all rhetorical and not waste my time. You've already made up your mind. No amount of data or hand-wringing from my end will change that.

I didn't call anybody in this thread an anti-vaxxer. Earlier I used the term "anti-vaxxer nonsense" regarding a crazy theory espousing herd immunity through spreading the actual virus to the entire population rather then locking down or quarantining, or wearing masks. A theory that became obsolete the second a vaccine became available.

That said, are you an anti-vaxxer or not? You're espousing typical anti-vaxxer arguments and views, but don't want to be called an anti-vaxxer. You're certainly not a pro-vaxxer. Is neutral-vaxxer a more acceptable term for you? How about anti-covid-vaxxer? Is that specific enough?

I'll leave with an anecdote from my personal life:

Late Spring/Early Summer of last year I politely asked a couple of plumbers to put a mask on before they came in our house to give a quote. I explained that my wife had lost both her parents to Covid just weeks earlier, and was going to be a bit sensitive about the issue. We would even provide a mask for them, if they didn't have they're own.

You know what one of them did when I mentioned both my wife's parents had died of Covid? He rolled his eyes at me, spit in my driveway, lit a cigarette, and got back in his truck.....then his boss nonchalantly threw on a bandana, came in and looked at our sink, gave us a quote, and left after telling us he wouldn't do any job if he had to wear a mask.

I hate myself to this day for not kicking both of those guys in the ass and off of my property right away. I was so shocked and demoralized by the situation, I thought I had done something wrong. I thought I had to cow-tow and be polite to these assholes, because it would be impossible to find another plumber on short notice in our little town.

Turns out I found another company the very next day, who said they would wear a goddamn scuba outfit if I asked them to.

Shock, turned to shame, which turned to anger.

So, sorry. I decided I'm done being polite (or neutral) to people who don't give two craps about me, or mine, or others around them. Especially when they're so often, so very loud, and outspoken, and opinionated, and unpolite, about their own beliefs and freedoms.



Do you think these numbers from January were manufactured out of thin air?

[tschock]

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

I didn't call anybody in this thread an anti-vaxxer. Earlier I used the term "anti-vaxxer nonsense" regarding a crazy theory espousing herd immunity through spreading the actual virus to the entire population rather then locking down or quarantining, or wearing masks. A theory that became obsolete the second a vaccine became available.

Assuming your "anti-vaxxer nonsense" was in regard to my post, I really don't think you understood what was being 'espoused'. It isn't a 'crazy theory' but a scientific one and one that works all the time. However in no way was I implying that it should be applied for Covid. While I wouldn't go as far to say 'liberal shaming tactics', you position bias does show in your response.

You do realize that according to the CDC's own website where they list the Covid related deaths, they are just that. Covid related. "Most death certificates (COVID-19 or otherwise) list more than one cause of death."
https://data.cdc.gov/NCHS/Provisiona...9bhg-hcku/data

Not specifically to you, but in general:
People throw around the 'cold hard facts' about the deaths caused by Covid. But the same people constantly and conveniently ignore the non-death impact on everyone's lives. They talk about science and facts but ignore the science and facts of shortening lifespans of the non-death health impact, such as stress, suicide, etc. You can't harp on one and ignore the other. Likewise you can't use the non-death impact as an argument against masks/quarantine/shutdowns. The depth of the true 'cold hard facts' impact won't even begin to be known until well after this is over. If you truly want to understand the impact, you can't use number of deaths, but how many person-years were lost because of the virus or how we reacted to it. Which is really cold , but the only true measurement of the impact. Not just raw deaths.

And anecdotes are just that.

And for what it's worth, my first Covid shot didn't affect me any different than any other shot I've gotten. Assuming the microchip they implant with the shot doesn't cause any adverse side effects.

[MooseDog]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Anybody die of the polio or smallpox vaccines lately?
Anyone die of the Covid vaccine lately?

...that went completely over your head, didn't it...

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by MooseDog

...that went completely over your head, didn't it...

...about as much as my response went over yours...

[doug.goodman]

I got my second shot yesterday.

As a general comment, not aimed at anybody in particular, according to the CDC there have been 569,771 deaths from covid in the US, and according to the interwebs there were 2,977 deaths on 9-11.

So, if 90% of the covid deaths were actually attributable to some other cause, then there has been the equivalent of a 9-11 event every 3 weeks. since last March.

Worldwide, according to the World Health Organization, there have been 3,128,962 deaths, and again, if 90% were attributable to something else, then there has been a 9-11 event twice every week for more than a year.

[ALR-bishop]

Congrats on the 2nd shot Doug.

[Republicaninmass]

Originally Posted by doug.goodman

I got my second shot yesterday.

As a general comment, not aimed at anybody in particular, according to the CDC there have been 569,771 deaths from covid in the US, and according to the interwebs there were 2,977 deaths on 9-11.

So, if 90% of the covid deaths were actually attributable to some other cause, then there has been the equivalent of a 9-11 event every 3 weeks. since last March.

Worldwide, according to the World Health Organization, there have been 3,128,962 deaths, and again, if 90% were attributable to something else, then there has been a 9-11 event twice every week for more than a year.

World wide though right? Not in 2 buldings in downtown manhattan on one day?

Ted "Just making sure I have my facts accurately attributed to something that might make sense to someone somehow" Sherman

[earlywynnfan]

Originally Posted by Republicaninmass

World wide though right? Not in 2 buldings in downtown manhattan on one day?

Ted "Just making sure I have my facts accurately attributed to something that might make sense to someone somehow" Sherman

A US 9/11-like loss of life every three weeks.
A world-wide loss that size twice each week.

Seems pretty clear, maybe it's not a worthy number?

[Republicaninmass]

Originally Posted by earlywynnfan

A US 9/11-like loss of life every three weeks.
A world-wide loss that size twice each week.

Seems pretty clear, maybe it's not a worthy number?

Wow, you're right. People who went to work one day killed by terrorists, vs (an overwhelming majority of) people with comorbidities and at the end of their life span


People are people, some are just despicable enough to allude one loss of life to another in order to suit their own agenda or prove their point.


Good for you!

[carlsonjok]

Originally Posted by earlywynnfan

A US 9/11-like loss of life every three weeks.
A world-wide loss that size twice each week.

Seems pretty clear, maybe it's not a worthy number?

I always wonder if the crowd that thinks wearing a mask is the greatest affront to freedom since the Alien and Sedition Acts exhibit the same behavior when it is time to take their shoes off at the TSA checkpoint.

[doug.goodman]

Originally Posted by Republicaninmass

World wide though right? Not in 2 buldings in downtown manhattan on one day?

Ted "Just making sure I have my facts accurately attributed to something that might make sense to someone somehow" Sherman

So you are opposed to things that kill a bunch of people in one location, but if they are spread out then it's ok?

I guess that means that you weren't happy that they crashed planes into buildings, but if they had instead randomly killed 2,977 people scattered all of over, you would have been ok with it?

Doug "just enjoying how you are ignoring the number of people who have died in one situation, but are all worked up about them in another" Goodman



PS - since my initial post 57,576 more people have died, if we again allow the conspiracy theorists and naysayers their 90% of mistaken / faked deaths, that still means that 2 more 9/11 events have happened (albeit scattered around the planet, so not nearly as meaningful as if they had been visiting two buildings in Manhattan).

[Cliff Bowman]

The one good thing about these threads is that they let you know which side of the aisle the responding members stand.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by doug.goodman

I got my second shot yesterday.

As a general comment, not aimed at anybody in particular, according to the CDC there have been 569,771 deaths from covid in the US, and according to the interwebs there were 2,977 deaths on 9-11.

So, if 90% of the covid deaths were actually attributable to some other cause, then there has been the equivalent of a 9-11 event every 3 weeks. since last March.

Worldwide, according to the World Health Organization, there have been 3,128,962 deaths, and again, if 90% were attributable to something else, then there has been a 9-11 event twice every week for more than a year.

I get my second shot early next week.