Gone with the stain. Dick Towle

[DICKTOWLE]

Now that the world has replied again and understand, I respect all answers, I would like to say a few things. All I here is the word "cleaning" on this site with the use of chemicals. The solvent I developed are used on three issues.

1. Remove tape and glue and paper on the back of cards.
2. Remove deep wax imbedded on the back or cards.
3. in most cases remove paper and contact cement on the back of cards.


If that is cleaning then yes, for those who don't believe in this then so be it, but I would rather enjoy a card with tape , glue, and contact cement removed. Thank you all again and be well.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by DICKTOWLE

Now that the world has replied again and understand, I respect all answers, I would like to say a few things. All I here is the word "cleaning" on this site with the use of chemicals. The solvent I developed are used on three issues.

1. Remove tape and glue and paper on the back of cards.
2. Remove deep wax imbedded on the back or cards.
3. in most cases remove paper and contact cement on the back of cards.


If that is cleaning then yes, for those who don't believe in this then so be it, but I would rather enjoy a card with tape , glue, and contact cement removed. Thank you all again and be well.

Thanks for responding, Dick. Do you have any data on the chemical(s) you use deteriorating the paper over time (if it does)?

I have more of a concern about wrinkles being taken out than dirt/grime/glue taken off. Can you say for sure that those wrinkles won't come back over time? Honestly, I am not in favor of wrinkle removal....

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by Leon

Can you say for sure that those wrinkles won't come back over time? Honestly, I am not in favor of wrinkle removal....

From what i understand, he doesn't remove wrinkles.

1. Remove tape and glue and paper on the back of cards.
2. Remove deep wax imbedded on the back or cards.
3. in most cases remove paper and contact cement on the back of cards.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

From what i understand, he doesn't remove wrinkles.

1. Remove tape and glue and paper on the back of cards.
2. Remove deep wax imbedded on the back or cards.
3. in most cases remove paper and contact cement on the back of cards.

see post #13

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by Leon

see post #13

Yup, I see it now.

[T206Collector]

The last time we discussed this issue, didn't someone talk about how old time collectors of T206 cards used to drop scrapbooks filled with them into a bathtub of water? Frankly, I have always assumed since then that any high-grade T206 card was once glued into a scrapbook and then removed in this process. That's why the corners stayed sharp and the borders stayed white -- they were in scrapbooks.

A lot of collectors got pretty upset learning about that, if I recall. Especially the PSA 8 collectors who thought their cards were pure and divine. To many, soaking a card in water is taboo. But ethics doesn't enter into it when an untold number of T206 cards already have been soaked for decades and decades. Today's collector cannot be held to a stronger standard than yesterday's collector when we're talking about cards that have been exchanging hands for now over 100 years.

[wonkaticket]

Originally Posted by T206Collector

The last time we discussed this issue, didn't someone talk about how old time collectors of T206 cards used to drop scrapbooks filled with them into a bathtub of water? Frankly, I have always assumed since then that any high-grade T206 card was once glued into a scrapbook and then removed in this process. That's why the corners stayed sharp and the borders stayed white -- they were in scrapbooks.

A lot of collectors got pretty upset learning about that, if I recall. Especially the PSA 8 collectors who thought their cards were pure and divine. To many, soaking a card in water is taboo. But ethics doesn't enter into it when an untold number of T206 cards already have been soaked for decades and decades. Today's collector cannot be held to a stronger standard than yesterday's collector when we're talking about cards that have been exchanging hands for now over 100 years.

I mentioned that once could be me. Being transparent soaking a card off a page doesn't bother me one bit. I have a few in my collection any graded cards got 2's look because of stains etc. Where I draw the line is using solvents and cleaners to remove stains and brighten up cards.

If the problem can't be solved with a bowl of warm tap water then I'm out, that's just my stance. Also if your stance isn't mine all good.

My major problem here is disclosure. As I said earlier if this was uncovered as something a major auction house was doing by taking nasty cards and using chemicals and solvents to work cards to high dollar status and doing so without disclosure. Well I doubt very much folks would be so quick to tell an REA no biggie that you took me for an extra 50k not being forthcoming after all I couldn’t tell good on you.

Cheers,

John

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by T206Collector

Especially the PSA 8 collectors who thought their cards were pure and divine.

As opposed to cut from a sheet, trimmed, and put it into a PSA 8 holder...

Too soon?

[wonkaticket]

Steve in the end I would say most if not all of Dick’s customers are not esteemed institutions such as the LOC. The LOC isn’t flipping items for sale in the near future. If an institution would like to perform preservation work on their collections that’s nothing new.

However I feel making the parallel between something like the Library of Congress and some dude with a wax stained 52 Mantle looking to make a buck is a bit of a stretch IMO.

Cheers,

John

[steve B]

Originally Posted by wonkaticket

Steve in the end I would say most if not all of Dick’s customers are not esteemed institutions such as the LOC. The LOC isn’t flipping items for sale in the near future. If an institution would like to perform preservation work on their collections that’s nothing new.

I think we're closer in thought than I figured. Many of the customers probably do step over the line.

Originally Posted by wonkaticket

However I feel making the parallel between something like the Library of Congress and some dude with a wax stained 52 Mantle looking to make a buck is a bit of a stretch IMO.

Cheers,

John

Burned by my own long windedness again I guess.

I wasn't making them parallel, just pointing out that preservation is important even for common items. While I can't come close to what a real archive can do, I do what I can within budget.

The rest gets like one of those unanswerable questions. If the right thing is done for the wrong reason is it still wrong?

I think we're also not so far apart here. I can appreciate the act, but not the intent. I also have few illusions about that intent.

I do wish I could express complex things briefly and effectively.

Steve B

[DICKTOWLE]

Leon, I developed this solvent 19 years, after 2 years of testing on the cards, all is well. These are oil base solvents, with the proper mixture there is never an issue with the cards. I can put these cards in the solvent for a week, take it out , you would never know. Understand the solvent attacks what is on the card, not the paper. The paper will always be fine and is never an issue with anybody.

As a oil base, the solvents sits on top of the card, once exposed to air, it is gone and that allows me to attack the issue. I even was contacted by a restoration house asking how we did this because they had cards sent to them, I ended up receiving the job.

I enjoy helping people, hearing there stories how they got the cards, few people really enjoy there work, our family does. So I thank you again for the input. There are a lot of happy people around with crap removed from front and back of cards. After all, life should be a smile and not a frown, Thank you and God Bless.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by DICKTOWLE

Now that the world has replied again and understand, I respect all answers, I would like to say a few things. All I here is the word "cleaning" on this site with the use of chemicals. The solvent I developed are used on three issues.

1. Remove tape and glue and paper on the back of cards.
2. Remove deep wax imbedded on the back or cards.
3. in most cases remove paper and contact cement on the back of cards.


If that is cleaning then yes, for those who don't believe in this then so be it, but I would rather enjoy a card with tape , glue, and contact cement removed. Thank you all again and be well.

The examples given here by your customers included stain removal. Stain removal is cleaning, by anyone's definition.

As far as 'chemical' vs 'solvent', a solvent is simply something that something else can dissolve in. For removing water-based glue, that would be water. For anything else, that would generally be something that most people consider to be a 'chemical'.

No tap-dancing, please.

Edited to add: I just got off the fence.

[autograf]

It was beginning to sway anyway with you and Leon on it............

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by autograf

It was beginning to sway anyway with you and Leon on it............

Hey, I'm not sure how to take that...as long as it wasn't a sexual innuendo.