Hank Arron death was possibly covid 19 vaccine related

[irv]

Anit-vaxxers. LOL.

I assume all these doctor's and nurses are as well?

https://www.latimes.com/california/s...vaccine-access
https://www.dw.com/en/covid-why-some...ted/a-56162735
https://www.forbes.com/sites/tommybe...h=cac3a2e3c962
https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...health-workers
https://www.contagionlive.com/view/s...vid-19-vaccine

You forgot a few morel buzzwords, Dave, that Liberals like to use when someone doesn't agree with their viewpoint or position.
Xenophobe, racist, conspiracy theorists, tin hat wearers, and a whole host of others. You keep on doing you and I will me but when one has to start calling someone names based on their personal opinions or views, then they lose all credibility with me.

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by irv

Anit-vaxxers. LOL.

I assume all these doctor's and nurses are as well?

https://www.latimes.com/california/s...vaccine-access
https://www.dw.com/en/covid-why-some...ted/a-56162735
https://www.forbes.com/sites/tommybe...h=cac3a2e3c962
https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...health-workers
https://www.contagionlive.com/view/s...vid-19-vaccine

You forgot a few morel buzzwords, Dave, that Liberals like to use when someone doesn't agree with their viewpoint or position.
Xenophobe, racist, conspiracy theorists, tin hat wearers, and a whole host of others. You keep on doing you and I will me but when one has to start calling someone names based on their personal opinions or views, then they lose all credibility with me.

I wasn't speaking to anybody particular on this site, unless you are implying that an anti-vaxxer is something that does not exist in society. I was mostly referring to the Kennedy clan member, who's article has been used to start this thread, and has a long history of being an "anti-vaxxer", to the detriment of our society.

Oh, and the use of "buzzwords" is certainly not monopolized by one side or another. The liberal use of the term "Liberal", as if it's some sort of a swear word, is one example.

[irv]

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

I wasn't speaking to anybody particular on this site, unless you are implying that an anti-vaxxer is something that does not exist in society. I was mostly referring to the Kennedy clan member, who's article has been used to start this thread, and has a long history of being an "anti-vaxxer", to the detriment of our society.

Oh, and the use of "buzzwords" is certainly not monopolized by one side or another. The liberal use of the term "Liberal", as if it's some sort of a swear word, is one example.

My apologies, Dave. I assumed, since there were only 2 of us who seemed to have opposing views to yours and others here, when I read “These”, as in plural, I assumed I was ‘one” in your “anti-vaxxer” description.

The thing is, no one really knows if this might have contributed to Aaron’s death but many wrote that possibility off right away as a no way, not possible, he was 86, etc, without even giving the vaccine a second thought that it could possibly be a possibility.

From the beginning, we were told to take 2 weeks to flatten the curve, yet here we are 10+ months later and we are still no further ahead?

We were told masks don’t work to masks work a 100%, we were told covid lives on surfaces to no, covid doesn’t live on surfaces, the list of do's and don'ts goes on and on and they all eventually contradict themselves.

Many have asked why flu deaths are way down and we are told it’s because everyone is masking up, washing their hands, isolating, etc, but when the covid numbers go up, or don’t level off, we are told because everyone isn't washing their hands, masking up and isolating??? Which is it???

Also, with regards to flu deaths, why are so many other death numbers way down like heart attacks, cancer, diabetes and other comorbidity types of deaths? Did covid magically cure all those diseases??

Also, why is no one, or hardly anyone, talking about the increase in suicides, drug overdoses, child and spousal abuse cases that have all risen 30 to 40% during this? What are those death numbers?

The thing is, like I mentioned above, this vaccine was rushed through with no long term studies/tests on its effectiveness, its immediate or long term side affects. Nothing. The big companies, Pfizer, Maderna, etc, have all washed their hands of being liable, meaning they can’t be sued if someone dies or has a severe life changing reaction. That in itself should tell many people, or give cause for concern about getting this shot yet many will blindly and ignorantly get it without questioning anything.
Has any new info come out from those that have had the shots that they are now 100% protected/immune from getting it ever again? Why are those who have had the shots told to continue to isolate, to wear a mask, etc? Makes zero sense to me.

Likely, like most everyone, I am sick and tired of the same old back and forth, do this, don’t do that, isolate, wear a mask, wash your hands, let alone the fact thousands of small businesses are being shuttered yet it is OK to rub shoulders at places like Wal Mart and Costco that see far greater numbers of people gathered than any of these small establishments do. It makes zero sense!

Like I said above, and in a another post, with a 98% recovery rate, I will not be getting the shot, and that is my personal opinion and I’ll stick to that. For those that want to get the vaccine, fill your boots, I am not going to condemn you nor laugh at you for it. It’s just not for me is all, especially, even more so now, considering what happen to my BIL’s mother, and many other cases just like it, like possibly Hank Aaron's as well?
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/12/h...ine-death.html

"Healthy' South Florida doctor died 2 weeks after receiving COVID-19 vaccine"
https://local12.com/news/nation-worl...mi-beach-sinai
https://www.deccanherald.com/interna...ot-939742.html

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by irv

My apologies, Dave. I assumed, since there were only 2 of us who seemed to have opposing views to yours and others here, when I read “These”, as in plural, I assumed I was ‘one” in your “anti-vaxxer” description.

No worries. I didn't mean to come across as picking on anybody in particular. Just pointing out hurdles out there that don't help the perception of things out in the real world. I hadn't even read your response by the time I hashed out everything I had to say in my first post.

That's why I posted a follow-up shortly after, directly concerning your BIL's mom.

As to the rest of your post, you have lots of valid concerns, and lots of things that are easily explained from somebody far smarter then myself, so I'm not going to get in a back and forth, for both of our sanities.

Happy collecting and stay safe.

[packs]

I find skepticism healthy but the skepticism around the vaccine seems selective.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

So let me get this straight. A segment of the population thinks that the Covid-19 death numbers are inflated because anyone who had it, who dies, regardless of the cause, is counted as a Covid-19 death. But now if someone gets the vaccine and dies it was definitely the vaccine's fault. Do I have that straight?

[todeen]

Vaccines are not perfect, let us not forget. Even the tried and true ones are not 100% effective, and some shots even come with liability waivers that need to be signed. The COVID vaccine is no different. For a certain percent of the population, there will always be complications. When the rollout began, it was being reported in all countries that people with serious allergies were having more serious reactions to the vaccine than individuals with no allergies.

However, I have two relatives who both died from COVID 10 days after testing positive. My wife's uncle showed the dreaded pattern of recovery before crashing overnight and dying. And my great-aunt came down with COVID pneumonia and never got off 100% oxygen. She told the doctor to unplug the machines and she died 2 hours later.

As others have said, and I reiterate, we're danged if we do and danged if we don't. I will get the vaccine because for me the positives outweigh the negatives.

[Peter_Spaeth]

My best guess is that when all is said and done -- if we can ever know for certain -- we will see that the risk of a serious adverse event is quite low, but not trivial and certainly not zero. Multiplied over millions and millions of people who get the vaccine, that means there are going to be a not insubstantial gross number of issues, although in the aggregate the benefits will dramatically outweigh the risks. I think anyone at this point who is claiming 100 percent safety is irresponsible, but at the same time anyone proclaiming causation when someone dies after having received the vaccine recently is premature and possibly biased. As they say, correlation is not the same as causation.

PS the calculus is not unlike that involved in taking any serious drug.

[earlywynnfan]

"Users on social media have also suggested the COVID-19 vaccine may have played a role in Aaron's death."

I think this is what bothers me about the media, on both sides. "Users on social media have also suggested the COVID-19 vaccine may have played a role in Aaron's death." So now we'll write a column about it. Then it will trend.
Speculation without facts, in today's hyper-polarized world, is dangerous. Take any uncomfortable fact or situation, and make a semi-plausible story to explain it away. With no proof whatsoever, I can pin every bit of bad news on Antifa/Socialists/Qanon. All it takes is a twitter account and a "suggestion."

I am scared for my country.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by earlywynnfan

"Users on social media have also suggested the COVID-19 vaccine may have played a role in Aaron's death."

I think this is what bothers me about the media, on both sides. "Users on social media have also suggested the COVID-19 vaccine may have played a role in Aaron's death." So now we'll write a column about it. Then it will trend.
Speculation without facts, in today's hyper-polarized world, is dangerous. Take any uncomfortable fact or situation, and make a semi-plausible story to explain it away. With no proof whatsoever, I can pin every bit of bad news on Antifa/Socialists/Qanon. All it takes is a twitter account and a "suggestion."

I am scared for my country.

Goebbels said, "If you tell a big lie often enough, people will believe it's true." Never has that been more apt than these days.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by irv

Anit-vaxxers. LOL.

I assume all these doctor's and nurses are as well?

https://www.latimes.com/california/s...vaccine-access
https://www.dw.com/en/covid-why-some...ted/a-56162735
https://www.forbes.com/sites/tommybe...h=cac3a2e3c962
https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...health-workers
https://www.contagionlive.com/view/s...vid-19-vaccine

You forgot a few morel buzzwords, Dave, that Liberals like to use when someone doesn't agree with their viewpoint or position.
Xenophobe, racist, conspiracy theorists, tin hat wearers, and a whole host of others. You keep on doing you and I will me but when one has to start calling someone names based on their personal opinions or views, then they lose all credibility with me.

The 2 I highlighted are my favorite.

[irv]

And it just keeps getting better.

Positive test doesn't necessarily mean nurse has contracted illness, experts say


https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottaw...tion-1.5884463

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by irv

And it just keeps getting better.

Positive test doesn't necessarily mean nurse has contracted illness, experts say


https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottaw...tion-1.5884463

Irv, I'm not sure what your point is here. None of the vaccines have claimed to be 100% effective. We've had flu vaccines for decades, and as most people know, they are not near 100% effective.

This is not an all or nothing game, it's a probability game.

In sports terms, it's analytics.

It's not a magic pill, where you get two shots and then all your cares wash away, and all your dreams come true.

Nobody has sold it as such. In the scientific community, or in the MSM(buzzword trademarked).

[ibuysportsephemera]

So if I am following the thinking of some, the 20 million people who have received the vaccine so far are now only dying (let's say within 1 week of getting the vaccine) from the vaccine and nothing else. Uhhh, I don't think that that is how life works. And so far the adverse reactions are statistically very small.

BTW, I do believe that the vaccine could cause a bad reaction, even death to some folks...but that is true with any kind of medical treatment in my opinion. I'll still take my chances with the vaccine rather than getting Covid.

Jeff