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  #1  
Old 09-16-2020, 12:14 AM
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Default 1951 Bowman Willie Mays Paper Loss

I bought a '51 Mays and it has paper loss in the top two corners, but especially in the top right. It's visible in my scan bellow, but looked like a fuzzy corner in scan from the sale listing. The back is clean other than a imprint/divot a few centimeters long that looks like maybe someone wrote on a paper forgetting the card was left under it.

I'm curious what you think this card would grade at SGC and PSA? Is it just chipping? Is it insignificant paper loss that looks worse only because of the magnification? Is the paper loss extensive enough to ding it grade-wise?

Any and all thoughts welcome.


Last edited by RiceBondsMntna2Young; 09-16-2020 at 02:52 AM.
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  #2  
Old 09-16-2020, 02:43 AM
oldeboo oldeboo is offline
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Certainly no expert, but I have a lot of opinions!

First off, looks like a pretty nice card. The corners appear to be typical wear on a 70 year old card to me(unless I'm missing something). Of course the magnification helps to identify some issues that aren't as noticeable to the naked eye. The centering seems to be decent enough. The main distracting feature for me would be all of those surface scratches over the face area and the print flaw over his name. At least it doesn't have those gnarly print lines a lot of the '51 Bowmans have.

Overall, based on what I can see, I'd call that a 3. I'm certainly no professional grader though. If you get a grader that just had lunch, the weather is nice, home life is going good, maybe it's a 4. Going through a divorce, dog just died...well never mind you'll probably need to do a resubmit

If you truly aren't happy with the card and feel it was misrepresented, nothing wrong with bringing it up to the seller, especially on a card like this. If you put any card under a microscope you'll find issues though, especially 70 year old ones. Just gotta figure out if the price you paid is worth what you're seeing I suppose.
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  #3  
Old 09-16-2020, 06:31 AM
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Robert Williams
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That card isn't going to '4'. I think you hit it right on the head with the '3' assessment.
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  #4  
Old 09-16-2020, 07:50 AM
NiceDocter NiceDocter is offline
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Default Solid card

I see nothing Id call paper loss just some corner wear....nicely centered and a well focused image. Its a 3 and unless you want to pay silly money for a better one I think its a keeper!!!
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Old 09-16-2020, 07:50 AM
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Default Nice card

Card s probably Vg but corner wear that results in what you are referring to as paper loss and what people usually are referring to when they say paper loss arent exactly the same thing. This is just considered corner wear. Card appears VG in picture. If what I think of as paper loss were present it would be fair at best.
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  #6  
Old 09-16-2020, 08:36 AM
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I agree. That is not paper-loss!

This card will grade either a PSA 2.5 or a 3 or a 3.5 or maybe even a 4.

I have a PSA 4 that has TWO creases!

Good luck
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  #7  
Old 09-16-2020, 08:53 AM
Yankees1964 Yankees1964 is offline
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I am no expert and always guess wrong on my grades but that is a 3 I think. No paper loss just corner wear. If the back looks like the front you are good I think.
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  #8  
Old 09-16-2020, 09:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yankees1964 View Post
I am no expert and always guess wrong on my grades but that is a 3 I think. No paper loss just corner wear. If the back looks like the front you are good I think.
Yep....he is good....unless he paid '4' or '5' price for it. But the way that card has appreciated, even if you overpaid, just hold it for a year or so.
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  #9  
Old 09-16-2020, 09:39 AM
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I agree it looks like a 3. But the way my grades have been coming back, don't be surprised if it pulls a 2. Good luck.
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  #10  
Old 09-16-2020, 10:14 AM
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If you trim that top border just a bit, you can ensure getting a PSA 4.

Seriously, that is a fine example, and I have seen many "4s" that are not nearly as nice. If you submit, it will probably come back a 3, as others have surmised, but I would much rather own your card than a 4 with a wrinkle or crease.

Unless you are re-selling, I would most definitely leave it raw.
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  #11  
Old 09-16-2020, 11:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by perezfan View Post
If you trim that top border just a bit, you can ensure getting a PSA 4.

Seriously, that is a fine example, and I have seen many "4s" that are not nearly as nice. If you submit, it will probably come back a 3, as others have surmised, but I would much rather own your card than a 4 with a wrinkle or crease.

Unless you are re-selling, I would most definitely leave it raw.
LOL on the first part.

Just another thought or two on the last part: grading it might be considered for insurance purposes or if you ever might resell it down the line. After all, a card like this will appreciate in value and end up in a higher tier of grading, costing more money to grade it down the line (not to mention the protective measures a slab would add).
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  #12  
Old 09-16-2020, 11:29 AM
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One of the cards I was watching the other night in Heritage shows what paper loss is all about but it is a PSA 5. https://sports.ha.com/itm/baseball/1...ription-071515 See the reverse. Also looks a bit...small. New holder too. Amazing what some buyers will overlook.
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  #13  
Old 09-16-2020, 12:00 PM
Throttlesteer Throttlesteer is offline
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You're going to find the harshest graders on this forum. I honestly feel it's a solid "4", but am sure many would disagree. The corner wear is VERY consistent with PSA 4s, as well as SGC. From the scans, there's nothing that would make me think it would come in as a 3 unless there's a wrinkle or something not obvious in the scan.

A lot will depend on the individual grader.
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  #14  
Old 09-16-2020, 12:07 PM
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Thank you for everyone's feedback. I will note that the scratches on his face may not be as apparent to the naked eye as they are in scans. I took a photo with my iPhone instead of the flat scan above, just in case that helps with a more accurate look at the card and your grade appraisal. Just FYI, the SGC grade was MUCH higher than anyone has guessed so far but it was hard to see that from the photo in the seller's listing:

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  #15  
Old 09-16-2020, 12:10 PM
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Hmmm....oh really? SGC graded that a 5 or 5.5??? I think you will be disappointed in your crack that out for a PSA grade.
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  #16  
Old 09-16-2020, 04:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RiceBondsMntna2Young View Post
Thank you for everyone's feedback. I will note that the scratches on his face may not be as apparent to the naked eye as they are in scans. I took a photo with my iPhone instead of the flat scan above, just in case that helps with a more accurate look at the card and your grade appraisal. Just FYI, the SGC grade was MUCH higher than anyone has guessed so far but it was hard to see that from the photo in the seller's listing:

I thought I got it right several hours ago.

The only good thing is the centering. Everything else is horrible for the price. I would have already been in the process of returning it.
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  #17  
Old 09-16-2020, 05:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbyw8469 View Post
Hmmm....oh really? SGC graded that a 5 or 5.5??? I think you will be disappointed in your crack that out for a PSA grade.
Looks like they gave it a "6"
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  #18  
Old 09-16-2020, 05:48 PM
luciobar1980 luciobar1980 is offline
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I think photos like this really can accentuate any flaws. I was going to guess a 5 before I saw the comments.
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