T206 Reference / Reflections.....Tuesday Nite Trivia

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by tedzan

Chris

I understand your theory; however, why would ALC replace Dougherty with Ames ?

Dougherty played for the White Sox 1906 - 1911. Ames pitched for the Giants from 1903 to 1913. I do NOT see any logical reason for American
Lithographic (ALC) replacing Dougherty with Ames in their 1910 press runs.

Ames is not the only subject that has yet to be found with red HINDU or BL 460 backs. Checkout this pattern....35 subjects in the 350/460 series
that were printed with SWEET CAP Factory #42 were also printed with BL 460 and red HINDU backs. No other 350/460 series subjects conform to
this pattern. Ames has been confirmed with the SWEET CAP Factory #42 back; therefore, he was also printed with BL 460 and red HINDU backs.
I'll predict that Ames will be eventually found with the BL 460 and red HINDU backs.
Before you care to take my bet on this happening, I'll remind you.....I'm batting 1.000 with such type of T206 predictions.

Chris

While we are trading theories, "dig this one"......my theory is that these 35 subjects were on a sheet of multiples of a 36-card arrangement with the RED Cobb DOUBLE-PRINTED.

Proof of this theory can be found in Pop Report data which indicates that the RED Cobb has approximately twice as many SWEET CAPORAL 350-460, Factory #42 counts than any
of the other 34 subjects.


TED Z

T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists
.

[Pat R]

Originally Posted by tedzan

Chris

While we are trading theories, "dig this one"......my theory is that these 35 subjects were on a sheet of multiples of a 36-card arrangement with the RED Cobb DOUBLE-PRINTED.

Proof of this theory can be found in Pop Report data which indicates that the RED Cobb has approximately twice as many SWEET CAPORAL 350-460, Factory #42 counts than any
of the other 34 subjects.


TED Z

T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists
.

Here are the current pop numbers for the 35 subjects with a SC350-460/42

SC350-460 42 pop numbers.jpg

[tedzan]

Thank you for posting the numbers for readers to see the data. I am aware of these numbers which have been in my research for 2 1/2 years.
I update this PSA data in my records every week.

As I said in Post # 1125, in this SWEET CAP 350-460, Factory #42 group of 35 subjects, apparently the Red Cobb was Double-Printed in order
to form a 36-card arrangement.


TED Z

T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists
.

[Pat R]

Originally Posted by tedzan

Thank you for posting the numbers for readers to see the data. I am aware of these numbers which have been in my research for 2 1/2 years.
I update this PSA data in my records every week.

As I said in Post # 1125, in this SWEET CAP 350-460, Factory #42 group of 35 subjects, apparently the Red Cobb was Double-Printed in order
to form a 36-card arrangement.


TED Z

T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists
.

If you're basing your proof that Cobb was double printed on the pop report numbers how do you explain the wide variation in the numbers on the other super prints?
There are almost twice as many Evers (9) as there are Chase- black cap (5), almost twice as many Chance (17) as there are Evers (9), over
double the amount of Chase- blue (11) as there are Chase-black (5) and three times as many Chance (17) as Chase -black (5).

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by Pat R

If you're basing your proof that Cobb was double printed on the pop report numbers how do you explain the wide variation in the numbers on the other super prints?
There are almost twice as many Evers (9) as there are Chase- black cap (5), almost twice as many Chance (17) as there are Evers (9), over
double the amount of Chase- blue (11) as there are Chase-black (5) and three times as many Chance (17) as Chase -black (5).

You are assuming that all 35 subjects were equally submitted for grading. THIS IS NOT SO ! And, I'm sure you know this.

A large number of T206 collectors get their Cobb, Johnson, Matty, CYoung cards GRADED. However, many T206 collectors (like me) DO NOT
bother to get their less valuable cards graded. There are many, many T206 sets (and stars and commons) that are NOT GRADED. Therefore,
comparing Cobb (or Johnson, Matty, CYoung) with the remaining cards in this Group of 35 is inconsequential.

My theory (presented approx 10 years ago), hypothesized that American Litho (ALC) divided the 63 subjects of the 350/460 series into two
groups when ALC started printing the 460-type backs.......this theory has withstood the test of time.

Group A comprises of these 35 subjects. Group B consists of the remaining 28 subjects in the 350/460 series. ALC printed sheets of T206's
with basic formats of 12, 36, 48, etc. cards.

Therefore with Group A having 35 subjects, ALC needed one more subject. The red Cobb is ATC's "signature T206" so it's a pretty good guess
that the Red Cobb was Double-Printed this format.


TED Z

T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists
.

[Pat R]

Originally Posted by tedzan

You are assuming that all 35 subjects were equally submitted for grading. THIS IS NOT SO ! And, I'm sure you know this.

A large number of T206 collectors get their Cobb, Johnson, Matty, CYoung cards GRADED. However, many T206 collectors (like me) DO NOT
bother to get their less valuable cards graded. There are many, many T206 sets (and stars and commons) that are NOT GRADED. Therefore,
comparing Cobb (or Johnson, Matty, CYoung) with the remaining cards in this Group of 35 is inconsequential.

My theory (presented approx 10 years ago), hypothesized that American Litho (ALC) divided the 63 subjects of the 350/460 series into two
groups when ALC started printing the 460-type backs.......this theory has withstood the test of time.

Group A comprises of these 35 subjects. Group B consists of the remaining 28 subjects in the 350/460 series. ALC printed sheets of T206's
with basic formats of 12, 36, 48, etc. cards.

Therefore with Group A having 35 subjects, ALC needed one more subject. The red Cobb is ATC's "signature T206" so it's a pretty good guess
that the Red Cobb was Double-Printed this format.


TED Z

T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists
.

I'm not assuming that at all. I know that Cobb would be submitted
more than any of the others for grading and cracked out and resubmitted
too. If he was printed twice as much as the others subjects his pop number
should be far more than double any of the other subjects.

The sales don't reflect him being double printed either this is a list of all
of the card target sales raw and graded by all company's since 2008 for
the 35 subjects with a SC350/460 factory 42 back.

img942.jpg

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by Pat R

I'm not assuming that at all. I know that Cobb would be submitted
more than any of the others for grading and cracked out and resubmitted
too. If he was printed twice as much as the others subjects his pop number
should be far more than double any of the other subjects.

The sales don't reflect him being double printed either this is a list of all
of the card target sales raw and graded by all company's since 2008 for
the 35 subjects with a SC350/460 factory 42 back.

Attachment 428669

Those cardtarget sales numbers are not an accurate reflection of the actual red Cobb transactions.

I've been a collector for over 40 years, and a part-time dealer for almost 40 years. I have bought, sold, traded, and graded at least 24 red Cobb's
during that time. And, that's just me..... a small time-dealer.

Furthermore, currently in my T206 collection are 7 red Cobb's (different backs). Plus, in recent years I have sold 4 red Cobb's with SWEET CAP 350-460, Factory #42 backs.

TED Z

T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists
.