One for the card guys, need help understanding T206 Wagner

[BrandonG]

Hey guys, I don't know much about cards or restoration. I'm looking for a simple explanation for this question, nothing too fancy or long, and then your opinions on the process.

My question is regarding RESTORED Wagner T206 cards. One, how do they do it, two why would you do it, and three, how is this any better than a reproduction? in my opinion they've just ruined something purely genuine, they must be replacing missing sections with new materials? This coming from an outsider who doesn't know the process though so be nice.

[steve B]

I'm not clear on precisely how, but paper can be added either from a common, or from some other source. Then the missing bits get painted in.
I've tried a few things on cheap 80's commons and it's not easy to get a result that's not instantly spotted.

Some restorers are very skilled, others aren't. There was a place local to me that restored antiques and had before pictures in the window along with the results. Amazing what they could do. And to some degree it's accepted as long as it's clear the item is repaired/restored. Some fields it's more acceptable than others. Cars are almost always restored, vintage posters are usually backed with linnen.


The why is a tough one. For stuff where some degree of restoraton is accepted it's usually done to repair damage or help preserve the item. Lots of the old posters are too fragile without the linnen backing. And really old paintings usually have lots of airborne dirt on the surface that damages them and seriously alters the way they look.

With a Wagner card I'd think that an owner might buy a less expensive one and have it restored so it's more appealing visually. Most of us here would probably "get it" if they saw the unrestored one, non collectors usually don't.
Collector- "wow a Wagner! beat and very trimed, but still cool"
non-collector- "Jeez! someone paid 100,000 for that?!

I have the same problem with the bikes I collect. The teams usually beat the heck out of them and use the parts on something else once it's outdated. The first one I got was used to win an event in the 83 Pan-Am games. I showed it to my friends when I got it and they didn't get why I'd paid good money for a beat up frame with no parts. Once I built it up with appropriate parts -some of them replicas I'd made- They thought it was really cool.

Steve B

[drc]

They often restore old movie posters, because they're meant to be displayed and are on especially thin paper. Often times the restoration inlludes simple stabilization so it can be displayed. Restoration can range from minor to major overhaul. The Wagner you should is a major case.

Brandon, all your points are good ones and have been debated before. I've before asked at what point is restoration so major that it's more fake than original. The majority of baseball card card do not like cards being altered, even in minor ways, so likely have similar thoughts to you. My opinion is if a card has been torn in half, I can see how and why someone would want it put back together-- but I'm not a fan of restored cards. They don't appeal to me.

Though in the case of the Wagner, it was already majorly damaged/altered, so I may not choose the route taken but can see how someone could justify it being fixed up. It's not as if the before picture is the card in it's original state. Though if I could afford a Wagner that wouldn't be the one I'd chose. A beat up but whole example would be the one I'd chose.

There are such high cards were there is minor touch ups that I think are unnecessary. The card was before in lower condition but looked fine. And there is a case where the restoration from a Wagner was removed by later owner.

[thecatspajamas]

What I find interesting with this particular example is that, even with the level of restoration done, the corners of the card (portions that were wholly absent prior to restoration) were left slightly rounded. Maybe that was just an aesthetic choice too so that the restored card wouldn't look fake? I guess if you're rebuilding a card to that extent anyway, it really is up to the customer, but it's interesting to think about what motivates such choices and the people with enough money to be in a position to make such a choice. Not a decision I'll ever have to make, but it's fun to ponder

[Runscott]

Interesting that they saved all (most, at least) the bits of the Sweet Cap back, as opposed to re-backing with another card.

[packs]

I personally would never buy a restored baseball card. I don't mind a trim. I don't mind a re-backing. But I could never buy that restored Wagner. It's no longer a card. To me, it would be like buying a laminated card.

[travrosty]

they should have left it alone, the card hobby doesnt accept restoration like the art world does. but there are talented people that can restore anything. they use materials to add and fill in, fix creases and tears, like rice paper and so forth, but i think it was kind of a fad that has died out now.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by packs

I personally would never buy a restored baseball card. I don't mind a trim. I don't mind a re-backing. But I could never buy that restored Wagner. It's no longer a card. To me, it would be like buying a laminated card.

I think it looked horrible before the registration. The main part of the card is the artwork, and that part has now been put in a form where it now looks presentable. Not the same as altering or trimming to deceive. Also, I don't mind it as much once I noticed that the restoration had saved real parts of the back.

[atx840]

Something I put together a while ago. Both restored Wagners

[Moesalty]

IMHO, the card was perfect in its original state. It is no longer the same card, rather a "Frankenstein" version of the card, if you will.... I'm not a fan of card restoration and feel that this card has lost it's "character" and now looks like a cheap reprint. It's a shame....

[Mr. Zipper]

Originally Posted by Moesalty

IMHO, the card was perfect in its original state. It is no longer the same card, rather a "Frankenstein" version of the card, if you will.... I'm not a fan of card restoration and feel that this card has lost it's "character" and now looks like a cheap reprint. It's a shame....

I could reprint this post in any comic book forum and it would fit right in. Frankenstein is the term many anti-restoration collectors use.

Different strokes for different folks. The key is that it is always disclosed.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by atx840

Something I put together a while ago. Both restored Wagners

Chris, I like the 'major restoration', for reasons mentioned previously. I think the second one was completely unnecessary.

[BrandonG]

Originally Posted by moesalty

imho, the card was perfect in its original state. It is no longer the same card, rather a "frankenstein" version of the card, if you will.... I'm not a fan of card restoration and feel that this card has lost it's "character" and now looks like a cheap reprint. It's a shame....

+1