CGC Jumping into card grading?

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Certainly looks that way from their Facebook page. Hopefully they have been paying attention and will address the issues and aren't just another corporate problem child.

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

Certainly looks that way from their Facebook page. Hopefully they have been paying attention and will address the issues and aren't just another corporate problem child.

It may appear that way but someone did a screen cap of the video showing it was an Avengers comic inside the slab.

[buymycards]

Inconsistency of grades awarded is also a fact of life in third-party grading. Sometimes a book will receive a higher or lower grade than it 'deserves'.

Though turnaround times fluctuate, many collectors have complained that the grading wait time extends well beyond the posted timeframes on the CGC website.

The above statements are from a review that I found. Sound familiar?

Their lowest fee for comics appears to be $20 for a 14 weeks turnaround.

The article goes on to say that they slab around 100,000 every year, so they may have to ramp it up if they start slabbing sportscards.

https://www.sellmycomicbooks.com/cgc-comics.html

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by Lorewalker

It may appear that way but someone did a screen cap of the video showing it was an Avengers comic inside the slab.

Different from what I saw which I can almost guarantee was a pokemon card.

[Exhibitman]

CGC had an abortive photo grading effort years before PSA

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

Different from what I saw which I can almost guarantee was a pokemon card.

If we are talking about the same video then it must have been an awfully large Pokemon card to be the size of a comic. The screen cap clearly shows a comic book.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Clearly we're not talking about the same thing.

[swarmee]

There was a picture I saw with three slabbed CGC cards and one was Pokemon, the other was Magic the Gathering. So they may initially be going after the gaming card market. I went looking for that thread at blowout and I cannot spot it right now.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by swarmee

There was a picture I saw with three slabbed CGC cards and one was Pokemon, the other was Magic the Gathering. So they may initially be going after the gaming card market. I went looking for that thread at blowout and I cannot spot it right now.

That's the shot I saw too.

[buymycards]

Hi Scott, the OP moved it from the Baseball Talk forum to the Grading Forum.

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1373931

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

I actually didn't see it on Blow Out, but in a comic book group I belong to.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

I called it

[Rich Klein]

Any Update on this?

[swarmee]

I think I saw them on a banner ad here at Net54. It said they were looking for experienced card collectors/graders to work for them in Florida.

Sidenote: I'm not looking to change careers at this time.

[ZR1]

I hope they set the standard for cards graded the right way. Ive sent cards to PSA for years, for the simple fact, you get more money for them. But I hate how they grade sometimes. Makes no sense to me. Since SGC finally started grading modern cards, Ive been using them lately. So far, Ive been happy with their grading, at least with my cards. What I thought the cards should be graded, for the most part, Ive been spot on. But this will be interesting with CGC.

I have 2 Mike Tyson Panini UK stickers I was going to send to SGC. I might send one to CGC and one to SGC now.

[WillBBC]

SGC's been grading modern cards since at least the late 90s. What am I missing?

[honus94566]

Grading is such a subjective undertaking, anyone who thinks that a new company in the mix is going to "solve" any of these problems is incredibly naive. Grading is a shitshow, it's always been a shitshow, and it'll always be a shitshow.

It's collectors that put so much emphasis on and importance on grading. It makes zero logical sense. The same card, graded "2" with fantastic eye appeal sells for ~ $1500, while a "7" grade sells for ~ $14000? That's just stupid. The joke's on us, as collectors and buyers. Especially when we find out all the doctoring and turning a blind eye that goes on.

I have a few higher graded cards but almost exclusively collect ungraded or lower grades, why pay more for the same damn thing? Especially when I collect to collect, not because I am worried about the future values of my cards as investments.

[prestigecollectibles]

Link to their You Tube promotional video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mTXinbWhyVQ

[honus94566]

Eww, are those the holders? The label is way too big, takes away from the card. SGC holders are still by far, the best looking IMO.

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by honus94566

Grading is such a subjective undertaking, anyone who thinks that a new company in the mix is going to "solve" any of these problems is incredibly naive. Grading is a shitshow, it's always been a shitshow, and it'll always be a shitshow.

It's collectors that put so much emphasis on and importance on grading. It makes zero logical sense. The same card, graded "2" with fantastic eye appeal sells for ~ $1500, while a "7" grade sells for ~ $14000? That's just stupid. The joke's on us, as collectors and buyers. Especially when we find out all the doctoring and turning a blind eye that goes on.

I have a few higher graded cards but almost exclusively collect ungraded or lower grades, why pay more for the same damn thing? Especially when I collect to collect, not because I am worried about the future values of my cards as investments.

Well said.... I feel exactly the same.

I've always said it's "The Emperor's New Clothes" and that the joke is on us. Shouldn't the owner of the card be the one to assess it? Why would one care what some random, overworked, and highly questionable stranger thinks? I've seen beautiful cards graded "1", while out of focus/blurry/ugly cards get "7s". Their criteria is flawed, as are their assessment skills.

I know... the majority of the PSA apologists are Registry people, Dealers and Flippers. They're making money hand over fist, so they don't want to bite the corrupt hand that feeds them and remain silent.

That said... I'm willing to give this new grading company a fair shot, in the spirit of "innocent until proven guilty". I just hope they do two things before the actual product is introduced...

1. De-emphasize the Flip. The flips pictured are way too large, too bright, and detract aesthetically from the card itself.

2. List the actual measurements/dimensions of the card on the reverse side of the Flip. In the current environment (with so many bad cards changing hands) that might be the most important criteria they can provide.

[bbcard1]

After seeing holder/flip, I am pronouncing them dead on arrival. I do appreciate their support of Net54 through.

[OldOriole]

It's a hard pass for me. I don't like the holders or the labels. The lack of a recessed area for the card corners is concerning (maybe that will be addressed, but why not address is in your promotional pics about the HOLDER?). Competition is a good thing and I wish them well, but I'll be sticking with SGC.

[pclpads]

Those are butt-ugly flips. I venture it will take them years - if ever! - for cards in their slabs to realize the same sale prices as the equivalent grade of a same card in a PSA holder. Everybody sez, "well, it's for my PC." Face it. Down the road we all will be selling, or willing our "PC" due to health issues or demise. When that happens, I believe PSA holdered cards will still realize the biggest gains for you or your estate / survivors. If they are still around in 5-10 years, let's look in and see how CSG has fared. For now, they are just the new kid on the block. Nothing more . . .

[Leon]

Originally Posted by bbcard1

After seeing holder/flip, I am pronouncing them dead on arrival. I do appreciate their support of Net54 through.

I strongly doubt anything is set in stone right now concerning the flips. They read our forum so keep giving feedback. I think hobbyists, by and large, will be pleased with what they see.

From the comments I have read in this thread, and what I know and can't really say right now, I think a lot of our members will be very pleased, even the naysayers.

And the incorrectly labeled cards above will be put in new holders when the new company starts accepting submissions.
.

[Brian Van Horn]

Overkill.

[68Hawk]

Case looks nice enough to me....I'm a Beckett fan in terms of cases and love clear plastic around the card.
Flip design is fine but the area devoted to it looks to be around 27-28% of the entire slab. Kinda makes a sizeable card like a 52' Topps looks small and de-emphasizes it.
Grading information is important, but the card should be the star.

[68Hawk]

I have to say I was underwhelmed initially at the idea of another TPG'er but the idea is growing on me.
I wonder where their niche will be considered to be.....I mean, you don't grade tobacco cards like you do 2017 Prizm Football (I'm a Chiefs/Patty Mahomes fan LOL), there are standards and parameters that apply to each era otherwise most cards pre 1970 would top out at 5-6's if judged against modern card production while the vast majority would fall in the 0.5 to 4 range.

Then there's game used and thicker slabs, auto's etc.
Do you hire experts in each field and try to do it all? That's a TONNE of card and issue knowledge you need to have on hand.

It's going to be super interesting to watch this baby get born.

[68Hawk]

...sorry for the series of posts as the thoughts flitter through.

Another interesting thing looking at those pics above is that the holder looks to be taller when housing the 52 Mantle. There's the same amount of clear space around the Topps card as the smaller 79 Gretzky and Jordan Rook, and flip also looks same sized among all three.
That's going to lead to some issues in storage I would think, most of us find a way to house the slabs because they fall in a similar range for alot of issues. If I need something tall enough to cover a range of slab sizes it's going to be a hard task....

[drcy]

Why would/should cards from different eras be graded differently?

[swarmee]

Originally Posted by drcy

Why would/should cards from different eras be graded differently?

I think he's talking about the inherent poor quality of gray cardboard stock. Natural fibers from the 50s and 60s would look like surface wrinkles to a computerized grading system or to a person trying to judge a vintage card using the exact same rules as modern cards. Vintage cards also had odder cuts (edge chipping, rough cuts, diamond cuts, tilt) that are forgiven as a vestige of their production style. Corners and centering can be judged the same (mostly), but edges and surface subgrades would need to be determined differently based on the age of production.

Obviously there is a huge demand for card grading; all three "major" companies are months behind in keeping up. This company will get business just like SGC has been overwhelmed in the past few months. I hold out hope that some TPG will figure out how to reject altered cards. Issue is that more scammers want their altered cards graded, than it seems there are honest submitters that want their cards returned if they were altered. So by being accurate and honest, it may lose them business overall.

It will also be interesting to see what their "Guaranty" is (since it's in the name) and whether or not they hem and haw about taking before and after pictures of the same card as evidence of alterations. Will also be interesting to see if they publish a list of the submitters they've banned due to previous bad acts or ones done while submitting to the company.

Price point will also matter. Looks like their CCG (Magic, Pokemon) service requires a membership to submit and has the following price structure:
https://www.cgccomics.com/submit/ser...s/cgc-grading/

Other alterations they'll need to be aware of: bleaching vintage. wiping off autographs from certified auto cards and then people having them signed in-person to get cleaner, autograph authentication in general, waxing/buffing out of scratches from chrome cards, swapped patches from jersey pieces inserted into cards, adding of fake stamps (Desert Shield, serial numbering taking a "backdoored/bankruptcy" card to "production", autopens, family member signatures on "certified manufacturer autograph issues, rebuilding corners, microtrimming, printed signatures passed off as real, etc.

There are a lot of ways the current TPGs are being defrauded. I wish them good luck.

Add: Even more alterations: counterfeit modern cards (Chinese 1990s basketball fakes), counterfeit vintage cards, "game-worn" patches the manufacturer puts in from counterfeit jerseys.

[68Hawk]

Originally Posted by swarmee

I think he's talking about the inherent poor quality of gray cardboard stock. Natural fibers from the 50s and 60s would look like surface wrinkles to a computerized grading system or to a person trying to judge a vintage card using the exact same rules as modern cards. Vintage cards also had odder cuts (edge chipping, rough cuts, diamond cuts, tilt) that are forgiven as a vestige of their production style. Corners and centering can be judged the same (mostly), but edges and surface subgrades would need to be determined differently based on the age of production.

Obviously there is a huge demand for card grading; all three "major" companies are months behind in keeping up. This company will get business just like SGC has been overwhelmed in the past few months. I hold out hope that some TPG will figure out how to reject altered cards. Issue is that more scammers want their altered cards graded, than it seems there are honest submitters that want their cards returned if they were altered. So by being accurate and honest, it may lose them business overall.

It will also be interesting to see what their "Guaranty" is (since it's in the name) and whether or not they hem and haw about taking before and after pictures of the same card as evidence of alterations. Will also be interesting to see if they publish a list of the submitters they've banned due to previous bad acts or ones done while submitting to the company.

Price point will also matter. Looks like their CCG (Magic, Pokemon) service requires a membership to submit and has the following price structure:
https://www.cgccomics.com/submit/ser...s/cgc-grading/

Other alterations they'll need to be aware of: bleaching vintage. wiping off autographs from certified auto cards and then people having them signed in-person to get cleaner, autograph authentication in general, waxing/buffing out of scratches from chrome cards, swapped patches from jersey pieces inserted into cards, adding of fake stamps (Desert Shield, serial numbering taking a "backdoored/bankruptcy" card to "production", autopens, family member signatures on "certified manufacturer autograph issues, rebuilding corners, microtrimming, printed signatures passed off as real, etc.

There are a lot of ways the current TPGs are being defrauded. I wish them good luck.

Add: Even more alterations: counterfeit modern cards (Chinese 1990s basketball fakes), counterfeit vintage cards, "game-worn" patches the manufacturer puts in from counterfeit jerseys.

Quality post, thanks for capturing what I was trying to allude to re inherent differences in stock, printing and cutting coming in to play when judging condition of cards from different eras. On a 1-10 scale, there were almost no real 9/10's ever created in the first 90 years of card production so it's like grading on a curve for those cards. And even then each decade and change to offerings need to be graded on their own merits.
Many collectors view the requirements of what needs assessing for grading through the lens of their own fairly narrow interests.
The prism is enormous and why I cut the TPG's more slack than most wish to.

[Exhibitman]

I like a clean, crisp label with easily read lettering. I don't like feeling like I'm trying to sort 1970s Topps cards by number when reading a flip.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by swarmee

I think he's talking about the inherent poor quality of gray cardboard stock. Natural fibers from the 50s and 60s would look like surface wrinkles to a computerized grading system or to a person trying to judge a vintage card using the exact same rules as modern cards. Vintage cards also had odder cuts (edge chipping, rough cuts, diamond cuts, tilt) that are forgiven as a vestige of their production style. Corners and centering can be judged the same (mostly), but edges and surface subgrades would need to be determined differently based on the age of production.

Obviously there is a huge demand for card grading; all three "major" companies are months behind in keeping up. This company will get business just like SGC has been overwhelmed in the past few months. I hold out hope that some TPG will figure out how to reject altered cards. Issue is that more scammers want their altered cards graded, than it seems there are honest submitters that want their cards returned if they were altered. So by being accurate and honest, it may lose them business overall.

It will also be interesting to see what their "Guaranty" is (since it's in the name) and whether or not they hem and haw about taking before and after pictures of the same card as evidence of alterations. Will also be interesting to see if they publish a list of the submitters they've banned due to previous bad acts or ones done while submitting to the company.

Price point will also matter. Looks like their CCG (Magic, Pokemon) service requires a membership to submit and has the following price structure:
https://www.cgccomics.com/submit/ser...s/cgc-grading/

Other alterations they'll need to be aware of: bleaching vintage. wiping off autographs from certified auto cards and then people having them signed in-person to get cleaner, autograph authentication in general, waxing/buffing out of scratches from chrome cards, swapped patches from jersey pieces inserted into cards, adding of fake stamps (Desert Shield, serial numbering taking a "backdoored/bankruptcy" card to "production", autopens, family member signatures on "certified manufacturer autograph issues, rebuilding corners, microtrimming, printed signatures passed off as real, etc.

There are a lot of ways the current TPGs are being defrauded. I wish them good luck.

Add: Even more alterations: counterfeit modern cards (Chinese 1990s basketball fakes), counterfeit vintage cards, "game-worn" patches the manufacturer puts in from counterfeit jerseys.

Unfortunately, I agree that being honest might be bad for business for a TPG. And that says something about our hobby nowadays. I have heard countless stories, from big dealers., about what their customers want. They want a label with a high grade regardless of anything else. Sad.

.