Would you buy from PWCC?

[zsk]

I know there’s been a lot written here and several skeptics of their products, but just curious where the board sits on personally purchasing from PWCC. As someone relatively new to vintage, they certainly have great eye appeal cards, but I’m not sure I can convince myself to buy given what I’ve read here.

[Throttlesteer]

I will save you the pain from the virtual tomato throwing and suggest you search the previous threads. There are similar ones regarding people's willingness to buy or not buy from PWCC.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by zsk

I know there’s been a lot written here and several skeptics of their products, but just curious where the board sits on personally purchasing from PWCC. As someone relatively new to vintage, they certainly have great eye appeal cards, but I’m not sure I can convince myself to buy given what I’ve read here.

No and I have felt that way for many years.

[Tyruscobb]

I will buy from any person/entity if the terms and conditions are appropriate - i.e. if the price is right. I don’t discriminate against a good deal.

[111gecko]

Sometimes you just really need the card and they seem to always have it..

[Kenny Cole]

No.

[Cliff Bowman]

If they had something extremely rare that I needed I would certainly bid on it but I'm sure it would end at some astronomical price way beyond my offer, legit bids or not. I have never won anything from them and only one time with Probstein in over twenty years on eBay. Like someone used to say, Stuff Trumps All.

[Gradedcardman]

Sure, at my price.

[aloondilana]

PWCC is perfectly fine to buy from.

[overthetoppscollectibles]

PWCC blatantly and consistently violates eBay shipping policy.

EBay is unequivocal. You may always lower a shipping charge below what's listed in a given listing after a sale. You may never increase a shipping charge, no matter what other verbiage you put in the rest of the listing to justify it, or in invoices or emails after the purchase. The original shipping charge is the max, period (unless you agree to pay more by accepting an invoice after the fact with higher shipping than the original listing). This is easy to confirm. Ebay's seller rules state as much.

This seems to be their shipping pricing model in a nutshell. List shipping at a low cost, then after the fact, increase that price by as much as double.

They just tried this with me. Won two lots at auction. Shipping charges for both were listed at $33. They sent me an invoice with shipping at $65. I will not pay that extra. I wanted the cards, so I've spent a week going back and forth with them (and with eBay help) but to no avail. They won't budge and neither will I. This is as much about principle now as it is about gouging. Now, after a week, the items are still sitting out there unpaid and they're going to remain unpaid. I will not let them get away with this. They refuse to cancel the order and they will not open a "unpaid item" case. Ebay tells me I'm in the right and will win any case, but that eBay cannot force PWCC to sell to me at the original shipping price; however, I am assured I will not lose a case. Anxious to see how this turns out.

Ron McCr@ry

Never deal with these unethical idiots, if you can help it. If you do, fight tooth and nail about additional shipping charges. They do not get to do that and if we keep taking it, they'll keep doing it. Besides, they're just plain stupid. How short-sighted is it to blow a $5,500 sale over $35 bucks???
Ron McCr@ry

[wondo]

Originally Posted by overthetoppscollectibles

PWCC blatantly and consistently violates eBay shipping policy.

EBay is unequivocal. You may always lower a shipping charge below what's listed in a given listing after a sale. You may never increase a shipping charge, no matter what other verbiage you put in the rest of the listing to justify it, or in invoices or emails after the purchase. The original shipping charge is the max, period (unless you agree to pay more by accepting an invoice after the fact with higher shipping than the original listing). This is easy to confirm. Ebay's seller rules state as much.

This seems to be their shipping pricing model in a nutshell. List shipping at a low cost, then after the fact, increase that price by as much as double.

They just tried this with me. Won two lots at auction. Shipping charges for both were listed at $33. They sent me an invoice with shipping at $65. I will not pay that extra. I wanted the cards, so I've spent a week going back and forth with them (and with eBay help) but to no avail. They won't budge and neither will I. This is as much about principle now as it is about gouging. Now, after a week, the items are still sitting out there unpaid and they're going to remain unpaid. I will not let them get away with this. They refuse to cancel the order and they will not open a "unpaid item" case. Ebay tells me I'm in the right and will win any case, but that eBay cannot force PWCC to sell to me at the original shipping price; however, I am assured I will not lose a case. Anxious to see how this turns out.

Never deal with these unethical idiots, if you can help it. If you do, fight tooth and nail about additional shipping charges. They do not get to do that and if we keep taking it, they'll keep doing it. Besides, they're just plain stupid. How short-sighted is it to blow a $5,500 sale over $35 bucks???

Please clarify - $33 for each item and they are charging you $66 per item? I, too, have reached out on what I thought were exhorbidant (sp) shipping charges. But, they have always adjusted them for me.

[overthetoppscollectibles]

Originally Posted by wondo

Please clarify - $33 for each item and they are charging you $66 per item? I, too, have reached out on what I thought were exhorbidant (sp) shipping charges. But, they have always adjusted them for me.

No, and these were fairly big-ticket items. I won a '55 Topps partial set, and shipping was set to $8. A few minutes later, I won a Clemente rookie, andshipping was set to $25. Auctions totaled about $5,500 before shipping. Before I could even pay, they sent an invoice for the auctions plus $65 for shipping (instead of the $8 and $25 they stated in the listings). I refused to pay the invoice for the higher shipping charges. I exchanged about 10 messages back and forth with them and got nowhere. Reported them as violating selling rules to eBay, which they are. Apparently, nobody's fought back on this crap. They're now stuck and I don't think they know what to do with me. They refuse to cancel the transaction. They refuse to do what's right (ship at the original rate). They refuse to open an "unpaid item" case. So it's just sitting out here in limbo. Again, eBay rules are unequivocal. You don't get to raise your shipping price after the fact, unless the buyer agrees to it. Ebay assures me I won't get dinged for unpaid item, because I have the rules behind me. No idea how this will turn out, but if more of us told them "HELL NO you're not adding shipping charges after the fact", maybe they'll start to listen.

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by overthetoppscollectibles

PWCC blatantly and consistently violates eBay shipping policy.

EBay is unequivocal. You may always lower a shipping charge below what's listed in a given listing after a sale. You may never increase a shipping charge, no matter what other verbiage you put in the rest of the listing to justify it, or in invoices or emails after the purchase. The original shipping charge is the max, period (unless you agree to pay more by accepting an invoice after the fact with higher shipping than the original listing). This is easy to confirm. Ebay's seller rules state as much.

This seems to be their shipping pricing model in a nutshell. List shipping at a low cost, then after the fact, increase that price by as much as double.

They just tried this with me. Won two lots at auction. Shipping charges for both were listed at $33. They sent me an invoice with shipping at $65. I will not pay that extra. I wanted the cards, so I've spent a week going back and forth with them (and with eBay help) but to no avail. They won't budge and neither will I. This is as much about principle now as it is about gouging. Now, after a week, the items are still sitting out there unpaid and they're going to remain unpaid. I will not let them get away with this. They refuse to cancel the order and they will not open a "unpaid item" case. Ebay tells me I'm in the right and will win any case, but that eBay cannot force PWCC to sell to me at the original shipping price; however, I am assured I will not lose a case. Anxious to see how this turns out.

Never deal with these unethical idiots, if you can help it. If you do, fight tooth and nail about additional shipping charges. They do not get to do that and if we keep taking it, they'll keep doing it. Besides, they're just plain stupid. How short-sighted is it to blow a $5,500 sale over $35 bucks???

Got it. So it is the excess shipping charges but not the fact they are under a federal investigation for numerous frauds perpetrated over many years against collectors? PWCC it is so easy to keep people happy just continue to ship quickly and do it at a fair price.

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by Lorewalker

Got it. So it is the excess shipping charges but not the fact they are under a federal investigation for numerous frauds perpetrated over many years against collectors? PWCC it is so easy to keep people happy just continue to ship quickly and do it at a fair price.

The portion in bold is the reason I won't even glance at their listings. The illegal shipping charges are a minor off-shoot which only serve to reinforce the sleaze factor.

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by perezfan

The portion in bold is the reason I won't even glance at their listings. The illegal shipping charges are a minor off-shoot which only serve to reinforce the sleaze factor.

The excess shipping charges seem to be an act of kindness compared to the allegations that have been levied against PWCC.

Happened to glance over at Blow Out Forum and saw this https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1418582. One more reason to run from their listings, if this is suggestive of how current listings are done.

Like you, I do not even look. I really do not need anything that badly and prefer to not support a business accused of wrongdoings...rather buy from or bid with those that have not yet been accused of wrongdoings.

[overthetoppscollectibles]

Originally Posted by Lorewalker

Got it. So it is the excess shipping charges but not the fact they are under a federal investigation for numerous frauds perpetrated over many years against collectors? PWCC it is so easy to keep people happy just continue to ship quickly and do it at a fair price.

Hey, the fraud allegations are new to me. Big, active participant in the hobby but don't read the trade rags. Closest thing to that I read is VCP.com. I discovered the "Trimgate" scandal when I searched this forum for "PWCC shipping ripoffs"...and landed here. That, indeed, adds another wrinkle to this. It certainly seems that there is an established pattern and practice to their unethical (and, it looks like, illegal) behavior. I guess their business model is "do it as long as you can get away with it...". You'd think that the first wakeup call should have been "Trimgate". That didn't seem to do it. As I said, I'm done with them. Plenty of other sellers who actually value your business.

[cardsagain74]

Originally Posted by overthetoppscollectibles

PWCC blatantly and consistently violates eBay shipping policy.

EBay is unequivocal. You may always lower a shipping charge below what's listed in a given listing after a sale. You may never increase a shipping charge, no matter what other verbiage you put in the rest of the listing to justify it, or in invoices or emails after the purchase. The original shipping charge is the max, period (unless you agree to pay more by accepting an invoice after the fact with higher shipping than the original listing). This is easy to confirm. Ebay's seller rules state as much.

This seems to be their shipping pricing model in a nutshell. List shipping at a low cost, then after the fact, increase that price by as much as double.

They just tried this with me. Won two lots at auction. Shipping charges for both were listed at $33. They sent me an invoice with shipping at $65. I will not pay that extra. I wanted the cards, so I've spent a week going back and forth with them (and with eBay help) but to no avail. They won't budge and neither will I. This is as much about principle now as it is about gouging. Now, after a week, the items are still sitting out there unpaid and they're going to remain unpaid. I will not let them get away with this. They refuse to cancel the order and they will not open a "unpaid item" case. Ebay tells me I'm in the right and will win any case, but that eBay cannot force PWCC to sell to me at the original shipping price; however, I am assured I will not lose a case. Anxious to see how this turns out.

Never deal with these unethical idiots, if you can help it. If you do, fight tooth and nail about additional shipping charges. They do not get to do that and if we keep taking it, they'll keep doing it. Besides, they're just plain stupid. How short-sighted is it to blow a $5,500 sale over $35 bucks???

Even if they could use their shipping chart as gospel (glad you brought up that they can't; had no idea)......it looks like they're valuing your basically complete '55 T grade 4 set order at 9 k to 10 k, which of course is too high, so that the shipping charge can be bumped up a little

[overthetoppscollectibles]

Originally Posted by cardsagain74

Even if they could use their shipping chart as gospel (glad you brought up that they can't; had no idea)......it looks like they're valuing your basically complete '55 T grade 4 set order at 9 k to 10 k, which of course is too high, so that the shipping charge can be bumped up a little

Good sleuthing, dude. Thanks for pointing that out. One more arrow in the quiver.

[cardsagain74]

Originally Posted by overthetoppscollectibles

Good sleuthing, dude. Thanks for pointing that out. One more arrow in the quiver.

No problem. This is assuming that your total order only had those two lots won (but you didn't mention anything else)

[overthetoppscollectibles]

Originally Posted by cardsagain74

No problem. This is assuming that your total order only had those two lots won (but you didn't mention anything else)

You're absolutely right. I went and checked their supposed shipping cost matrix. Total value of the order was $5,500. According to their shipping cost matrix (even assuming they were allowed to get away with charging off that, which they aren't), the shipping charge should have been $45 dollars. Cannot figure out how they landed on $65. Pure, unadulterated thievery. What a bunch of scumbags.