Live Auction: T206 Plank; is it real?

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Posted By: Matt

http://cgi.ebay.com/1909-T206-Eddie-Plank-Piedmont-RARE-1of1-ERROR_W0QQitemZ120174566759QQihZ002QQcategoryZ8684 0QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

No.

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Posted By: dennis

reprint,but the discription is worth a laugh,what an idiot!

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Posted By: Matt

Please let us novices know how you can tell.
thanks!

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Well, this guy is really a Grade A moron. Look at the time he put into this ridiculous listing! I put in my best offer of $3. I hope no one tops my offer..

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Posted By: Rick McQuillan

Well, low feedback, low feedback %, no PayPal, card is sold as is, card is not graded, small poor quality scans-hmmmmm?

The toning on the back doesn't look right, but what the heck, it is only 20k? Why not take a chance?
Rick

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Posted By: dennis

http://www.t206museum.com/page/ga_plank.html

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Posted By: Matt

dennis - that will do it.
it doesn't exist with a Piedmont back!

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Matt, I think the back really makes it clear it is a fake. Also the borders seem a bit too fat but the back is really obvious. Plus the most obvious reason is what was just mentioned: it is impossible for someone to sell this card in this manner, ungraded, etc.

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Posted By: Mike

Well, I am a novice and besides the rediculous description, it just doesn't look right to me....are there technical features other than gut feeling that gives this away?

Mike

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Posted By: dennis

also it seems that a lot of the wagners and plank reprints the back is way off centered.

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Posted By: Al Simeone

Oh Leon are you there? I think its time to use your ebay "phone a friend"

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Posted By: Frank Wakefield

In addition to the shortcomings mentioned above, especially the fact that it isn't a Sweet Caporal back, the type on the front doesn't look like the old type. The font and color of the ink aren't correct, what is on that Plank doesn't match the type on genuine white border tobacco cards.

Seems to me that many of the reprints fall short on the type used on the front. And then they frequently have the wrong color ink on the back...

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Posted By: barrysloate

No Plank exists with a 350-460 series back. The seller is, however, a genuine idiot.

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Posted By: Al Simeone

If you check his feedback left for others I guess he was burned at his own game and won a FAKE mantle and wasnt happy about it!

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Posted By: leon

I have reported it but really anyone can report these scams. There is a place on ebay to do it. This guy really put some time into conjuring up this story...

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Posted By: Matt

leon - I reported 3 fakes over the last 2 weeks and all 3 auctions went to the end. We can all report them, but its futile if they ignore the report. That's why we need you.

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

There is only one T206 Plank known with a Piedmont 150 back......

All the rest are Sweet Caporal 150 Fac. 25

OR

Sweet Caporal 350 Fac. 30

That's it guys and gals......any other backs (like this one) are a NO-NO.

TED Z

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Posted By: Tim Newcomb

It's sweet that he blesses our country, its military, and EACH OF US as he runs his scam. Really makes you feel good about professions of patriotism.

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Posted By: barrysloate

His story is, among other things, painfully long. The only reason I wasted time reading it is to get some insight into how a scammer thinks.

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Tim, I'm starting to think you're badmouthing this guy's listing solely to try to talk the price down. Please do not try to top my $3 offer; I know what you're doing.

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Posted By: David Goff

Leon,
While we are on the subject of fakes, when is eBay making a separate category for reprints? I remember you talking about this a few months ago. It seems reprints are over flooding the Pre-1930's category. Just curious if you have heard anything as of yet.

Thanks
Dave

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Posted By: MVSNYC

i'm sure i can speak for jeff, ted and other T206 experts...after seeing/handling thousands of T206 cards, you only need a split second to glance at a card and instantly know if it is real or not...

if you want specifics (other than the obvious that it has a non-compatiable back), i will try to explain...

-the color of the blue background is wrong.
-the type face is off.
-the black line around the image is not bold enough.
-the borders are a little too big (i.e. image is too small in relation to the borders).

-overall, it just doesn't look "right"...

MS

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Posted By: Dave F

A Plank could have a Piedmont back, but would have to be 150 subject, other than that would have to have Sweet Caporal factory 25 or 30.

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Posted By: leon

My inside source at ebay didn't give me a time frame for the reprint/fakes category. He only said they are working on it. I hope it's soon as it would weed out a lot of the stuff we have to wade through....sort of like off topics on the board .....take care

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Posted By: Rand

Where do these guys come from???

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Posted By: Joann

Matt,

Some of the auction cues are easier to find than card cues when it comes to spotting scams. As noted above, things like low feedback, no feedback, indistinct images, sold "as is" all point to scams. So do any references to grandma's attic, uncle joe's desk, or the little old lady that lives down the lane. Also, you often see vague disclaimers like "I don't know much about these cards" or "these are my boyfriend's cards and I don't know anything about them" or "this may be a reprint - I don't know" - basically the seller trying to create wiggle room to use later. On the other hand, he does take PayPal and many scammers won't take PP because the buyer has some recourse when the scam is discovered.

As to card cues, they are harder to describe and see. For T206's, the font on the front is often a big one. Real cards have a soft brown ink, and reprints have a harsher black ink for the name and team. Also, the reprint name/team tend to be squeezed together more.

I hate to say it, but after awhile you can just get a sense that something doesn't "look right" in ways that are hard to articulate. People used to say that back in the day, and I thought it wasn't very helpful. But I've found that being on this board and looking at ebay, etc etc, over time has led to me being able to know when somehting doesn't look right. Not always, but much better.

Finally, I do seller searches on ebay under the seller ID "carbs". He sells a lot of vintage reprints and identifies them as reprints. I download scans of his reprint cards, and have extensive files of reprint scans. This helps give a feel for general look, and also will let you see where the word "reprint" appears on the card. Often a reprint being sold as real will have paper loss or extensive staining conveniently located right where the word "reprint" would appear.

Carbs is a great resource for getting good images of reprint scans and starting a file. I've used my file several times for a card I wasn't sure of.

For reference, below are two scans of T206 font. The first is a Crandall, and you can see that the font is black and kind of harsh looking and squeezed together. The other is a close up of font on a real T206. It's lighter - not as black, not as harsh, and the letters are more widely spaced. It has a smoother and more elegant look. I find the same thing on backs for reprints. For lack of a better word, a reprint back looks harsh and doesn't have the smooth and mellow look of the real thing.

Joann

ETA: Both scans below were downloaded from this board a long time ago, when someone here helpfully posted them in response to a similar question about T206 fake-spotting. So I am passing them on again here.

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Posted By: JimB

You can tell the card is fake because there is no black border line between the blue background and the white border. Compare it with any other real T206.
JimB

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Posted By: Kenneth A. Cohen

Among the many obvious prime bogusness indicators, no one has mentionned the absence of the factory identification on the lower back of the card. Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't any genuine T206 have that?

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Posted By: Steve Murray

youareascamartist (-1) soon to be (-2)

That's one way to stop these morons. Thanks scam

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Posted By: Matt

Don't be too hard on the guy; he MAY not know it's a fake.

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Posted By: Joann

Matt,

I too thought that was possible, mainly because I was thinking that if he knew it was a fake he would not take PayPal.

But it's hard for me to believe he took it to ONE knowledgeable person/dealer, let alone five, and was told it was real. At the very best, he may be doubtful and is going to bet his fortunes on one possibility over another.

I don't see how he can be completely convinced it's real though, unless he is lying about having anyone else look at it and give opinions.

J

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Posted By: Joann

Hahahaha. Great one scam. Maybe we should all ebay something wierd for youareascamartist to "win" so we can inflate his feedback and help keep him around awhile longer.

I'm just glad that now this guy will have to mess around with ebay to get rid of the listing fees for $20K, etc etc. hahaha.

Although Jeff L has got to be unhappy that someone bought it out from underneath him. Although his $3 offer was declined, I'm sure he was not ready to give up and had a $5 offer ready right behind it.

J

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Posted By: anthony

another way to report this (if ebay doesnt catch it themselves)...he/she is asking for paypal fees which was a "no-no" to ebay at least a year ago....

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Posted By: dennis

it's been removed by ebay

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Posted By: Matt

I think one of our board members won it - I don't think the listing was removed by ebay at all.

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Can we have at this scam artist now?

http://cgi.ebay.com/1933-Napoleon-Larry-LaJoie-10-000-value-NR_W0QQitemZ190165122160QQihZ009QQcategoryZ31718QQ ssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

The seller told me to basically f*$( off when I dared to suggest that his listing was misleading.

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Posted By: Matt

Jeff - that card with that back is just too funny.

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Posted By: Scott

In the 1980s a run of reprints including that Nap Lojoie, Wagner, Plank, and a few other cards were put together. That card is from the reprinted set .. I know because I have the same mini-reprint set. The good news is that anyone that is even remotely familiar with the Goudeys would never even consider this card.

It is pretty comical when people try to pass on such blatant fakes as the real deal.

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Posted By: Matt

For those too lazy to click the link to the auction Jeff posted, you're missing this gem in the item description:

"The back states the value at $10,000"