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  #5401  
Old 07-13-2021, 07:58 AM
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This also seems to be the same maker, there are a few of these “wide scroll” pennants (Yankees, Brooklyn) right around 1949-51. I know it’s not proof, but the scroll itself and font is radically different from the known scroll design of Trench. Don’t know of any other teams. It’s why I suspect a NYC area company.

Anyway, I find this interesting and appreciate your feedback!
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  #5402  
Old 07-13-2021, 09:48 AM
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You guys are amazing! Love looking at these wonderful pennants you keep coming up with.
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  #5403  
Old 07-13-2021, 10:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thetahat View Post
This also seems to be the same maker, there are a few of these “wide scroll” pennants (Yankees, Brooklyn) right around 1949-51. I know it’s not proof, but the scroll itself and font is radically different from the known scroll design of Trench. Don’t know of any other teams. It’s why I suspect a NYC area company.

Anyway, I find this interesting and appreciate your feedback!
Completely agree....

There's a mystery maker (still unidentified) who's responsible for these particular oddballs.
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  #5404  
Old 07-13-2021, 12:35 PM
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I appreciate your skepticism. I think the problem is the 1950 Whiz Kids pennant represents the tail end of a series Trench used for more than a decade, beginning in the early 1940s. As one would expect, pennants from this series will differ from those of the next generation.

Yours is right on the cusp of that transition from the old style to the new. Accordingly, it lacks some of the distinctive Trench characteristics we’ve come to associate with their 1950s and even 1960s offerings.

But, IMHO, that doesn’t mean it’s not by Trench. I’ve studies the old series and identified numerous instances where the supporting text (e.g., “N.Y. Yankees”) was reused on a different style pennant featuring known Trench artwork. That’s how I first made the connection.

If you apply the same logic as above, we shouldn’t be surprised to learn Trench made these. Trench was always considered an innovative company. There were even less pennant makers using polychromatic designs in the 1940s. This colorful design distinguished them from their competition; nearly all of whom were making monochrome pennants. Eventually, by the 1950s, other makers began making limited two-color pennants … but they were behind the times. In response, by the 1950s, Trench began offering team-specific pennants featuring unique artwork. We see this, for example, in their stadium pennant series. Again, nobody else was doing anything like this. Others eventually copied it … but it took some time. By the 1960s, they begin offering photo pennants, yet another innovative success that launched them ahead of their competition.

So your Whiz Kids pennant, in my eye, just happens to have been made during the transition from the old to the new style. That’s probably why it doesn’t look right, to you. But, that style, 10 years earlier, would have been cutting edge.

And, that means Trench likely made it, in my view.
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  #5405  
Old 07-13-2021, 12:47 PM
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Quote:
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This also seems to be the same maker, there are a few of these “wide scroll” pennants (Yankees, Brooklyn) right around 1949-51. I know it’s not proof, but the scroll itself and font is radically different from the known scroll design of Trench. Don’t know of any other teams. It’s why I suspect a NYC area company.

Anyway, I find this interesting and appreciate your feedback!
No disagreement here. I think this wide scroll pennant was made by AMCO, A Brooklyn based pennant maker.
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  #5406  
Old 07-13-2021, 05:51 PM
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This pennant just sold in Hunt Auctions … the pennant is legit and the leather batter graphic varies a bit in these pennants … but this one looks strange to me compared to the one I have …

I’d love to know more details about these. Perhaps the first known “series” of similar style pennants made for different teams. My guess is pre-1910, before silk screening went commercial. The leather batter allowed for burning in detail that couldn’t be duplicated with sewn on graphics. I have three of these and they are all different sizes.

Last edited by thetahat; 07-13-2021 at 05:57 PM.
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  #5407  
Old 07-13-2021, 08:09 PM
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Quote:
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Reds fan here, great job on a cool pennant. I never thought of cleaning a pennant. How did you do it?
In a nutshell....hang vertically, use painter’s tape to both nang and protect the spine (I tape mine to the shower wall), spray with a bleach solution, rinse rapidly and completely with clear water.

I would start with maybe a 25% bleach solution. Caution: red can be a tricky color. Other ink colors are usually unaffected but I ruined a valuable pennant with red ink. Plenty of discussion and examples in this thread.
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  #5408  
Old 07-13-2021, 10:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thetahat View Post
This pennant just sold in Hunt Auctions … the pennant is legit and the leather batter graphic varies a bit in these pennants … but this one looks strange to me compared to the one I have …

I’d love to know more details about these. Perhaps the first known “series” of similar style pennants made for different teams. My guess is pre-1910, before silk screening went commercial. The leather batter allowed for burning in detail that couldn’t be duplicated with sewn on graphics. I have three of these and they are all different sizes.
That's a super long one. It used to be mine, and re-surfaced in Hunts which closed today. The Batter looks like he had a little adhesive work done at some point, to overcome some loosened stitching. The outer cut of the die-cut Batter looks the same as yours. But the inner detail is much clearer on yours. Perhaps this is due to 100+ years of surface wear on the Hunt example, and perhaps yours was just burned in deeper by the "artist".

I suppose no two are exactly the same.... pretty cool. As I recall, the front of the Hunt's White Sox example faded nicely to an attractive baby blue. The reverse (unexposed) side was a darker navy blue. Great stuff!

Last edited by perezfan; 07-13-2021 at 10:27 PM.
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  #5409  
Old 07-14-2021, 05:25 AM
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The batter on the Hunt’s pennant appears to have had shoulder surgery.
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  #5410  
Old 07-14-2021, 04:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by perezfan View Post
That's a super long one. It used to be mine, and re-surfaced in Hunts which closed today. The Batter looks like he had a little adhesive work done at some point, to overcome some loosened stitching. The outer cut of the die-cut Batter looks the same as yours. But the inner detail is much clearer on yours. Perhaps this is due to 100+ years of surface wear on the Hunt example, and perhaps yours was just burned in deeper by the "artist".

I suppose no two are exactly the same.... pretty cool. As I recall, the front of the Hunt's White Sox example faded nicely to an attractive baby blue. The reverse (unexposed) side was a darker navy blue. Great stuff!
Interesting! Moths love these pennants as much as I do …
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  #5411  
Old 07-14-2021, 04:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ooo-ribay View Post
The batter on the Hunt’s pennant appears to have had shoulder surgery.
The Hunt catalog for this one said "The batter, while appearing to be period/original, has been restored/restitched in a few areas. "

I wonder if that accounts for some of the differences.
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  #5412  
Old 07-15-2021, 08:08 AM
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Regarding WGN I do believe that they made pennants in the 1940s with tassels. Here are some examples which I think fit their style, they have tassels that match the body. The Browns pennant has a sister Cardinals version, and I’ve seen dated Tigers pennants from the mid 40s that are similar. It was around 1950 when they seem to have ditched tassels.
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  #5413  
Old 07-15-2021, 08:15 AM
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I suspect this is also WGN based on the font of the name … Johnny is still alive, maybe we can ask him?
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  #5414  
Old 07-15-2021, 10:46 AM
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Super-psyched about this pennant thst came today, another WGN, I’ve seen it only once before. This one is about mint, interestingly a bit small, 10.5” wide and a tick under 27” long. This is likely around 1951-52, since Minnie was still going by his real name, at least on baseball cards. Minnie was a cool player, too …
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  #5415  
Old 07-15-2021, 10:59 AM
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That's a cool pennant Greg. Nice!
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  #5416  
Old 07-15-2021, 04:42 PM
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That's a cool pennant Greg. Nice!
Thanks Marc!
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  #5417  
Old 07-15-2021, 05:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thetahat View Post
Super-psyched about this pennant thst came today, another WGN, I’ve seen it only once before. This one is about mint, interestingly a bit small, 10.5” wide and a tick under 27” long. This is likely around 1951-52, since Minnie was still going by his real name, at least on baseball cards. Minnie was a cool player, too …
That’s a great pennant. Think how much a companion Ernie Banks would bring.
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  #5418  
Old 07-15-2021, 06:14 PM
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That’s a great pennant. Think how much a companion Ernie Banks would bring.
That would be an awesome find. This was a Chicago company and they made multiple variations of Cubs and Sox, so maybe!
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  #5419  
Old 07-15-2021, 06:24 PM
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Congrats to all who’ve contributed here, including our deceased and beloved compadre Mike Hoevet…

Leon please confirm, but I believe this is the first and only net54 thread to receive over one million views!

And many thanks to Baseball Rob for starting this great thread!

Last edited by perezfan; 07-15-2021 at 08:02 PM.
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  #5420  
Old 07-16-2021, 05:39 AM
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And many thanks to Baseball Rob for starting this great thread!
Aw, shucks.

Just the new guy trying to gain acceptance. I started it 16 days after I joined Net54. I have learned a lot from you guys and seen some incredible pennants.

Onward and upward!
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  #5421  
Old 07-17-2021, 06:40 PM
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Very cool WGN Negro league ASG pennant just sold, anyone grab it?
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  #5422  
Old 07-17-2021, 11:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by todeen View Post
Reds fan here, great job on a cool pennant. I never thought of cleaning a pennant. How did you do it?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

I believe baseball Rob posted the method a while back - although I don’t know the post number.

The process is basically staying the pennant with water, bleach and then water again. I will try to look for the original post as it gives good instructions. It’s important to keep the bleach away from the tassels and spine.

Rob, do you have the original post handy?
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  #5423  
Old 07-18-2021, 09:13 AM
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Thought I'd play the B side this morning...
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  #5424  
Old 07-18-2021, 10:22 AM
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Thought I'd play the B side this morning...
That’s B yootiful!
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  #5425  
Old 07-18-2021, 10:22 AM
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Rob, do you have the original post handy?
I don’t.
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  #5426  
Old 07-18-2021, 11:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by todeen View Post
Reds fan here, great job on a cool pennant. I never thought of cleaning a pennant. How did you do it?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

Here is a paraphrased set of instructions I use.

The process involved taking a spray bottle filled with water to saturate the pennant. After wet, take another spray bottle with bleach and spray on the fabric. Let it stand for a few minutes and then take the water sprayer and thoroughly spray until water has washed out the bleach. I usually dry by having a towel on the floor and another on top and dap the pennant. Then air dry. After it’s dry you can lightly iron the back of the pennant quickly and not too high of a setting as not to melt any graphics. Remember to tape the spine and tassels with multiple layers and don’t spray bleach close to the spine to to avoid bleeding.

Others may have slightly different processes.
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  #5427  
Old 07-18-2021, 12:26 PM
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I asked similar question back in March. Rob was helpful enough to repost the instructions on post #4384 with photos.

https://www.net54baseball.com/showpo...postcount=4384


There's also been a few people on the boards who are a fan of Retro Clean to wash pennants without bleaching them. I tried Retro Clean recently and it did a pretty good job.
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  #5428  
Old 07-18-2021, 02:21 PM
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Chris,
That banner and the buttons are sweeeeeet
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  #5429  
Old 07-18-2021, 04:10 PM
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Thanks, Rob and Jason.
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  #5430  
Old 07-19-2021, 09:42 AM
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Thought I'd play the B side this morning...
Yo Chris great to hear from you and WOW … stunning! I doubt many of those were made and for one to survive in such nice condition? Great find!

Last edited by thetahat; 07-19-2021 at 09:42 AM.
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  #5431  
Old 07-19-2021, 09:51 AM
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I asked similar question back in March. Rob was helpful enough to repost the instructions on post #4384 with photos.

https://www.net54baseball.com/showpo...postcount=4384


There's also been a few people on the boards who are a fan of Retro Clean to wash pennants without bleaching them. I tried Retro Clean recently and it did a pretty good job.
Retro Clean works especially good on white cloth Trench and ASCO pennants. They seemingly don’t have inks that run. I’ve had some fantastic results with some pennants I bought early in my collecting days that got stashed away. But I had a cheaper knock off Phillies pennant that ran.

Now the spine and tassels will run and so that’s where some diluted bleach is needed to clean that up. It helps to run a dowel through the spine.

I even had a blue Phillies blue Jay pennant that I got cheap because it was filthy, looked like it was used as an oil rag. For the heck of it I tried RC and the results were great.

Last edited by thetahat; 07-19-2021 at 09:52 AM.
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  #5432  
Old 07-19-2021, 07:55 PM
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Great '61 World Series banner Chris!

Picked up a few pennants at an estate sale this weekend -- always glad to find vintage baseball out in the wild.

Greg
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  #5433  
Old 07-19-2021, 09:46 PM
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Thanks, Greg! Wish we had estate sales like that here.

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  #5434  
Old 07-20-2021, 01:54 PM
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Well at least this comes from a smoke free home …
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  #5435  
Old 07-20-2021, 03:01 PM
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Well at least this comes from a smoke free home …
Please.....at that price....and in Colorado.......oh they're smokin' something.
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  #5436  
Old 07-20-2021, 04:44 PM
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Well at least this comes from a smoke free home …
Thanks a lot for outing that one

I had my snipe set, cleared a spot on the wall, and everything! Now the whole world knows about it. Not cool!
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  #5437  
Old 07-20-2021, 05:39 PM
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Thanks a lot for outing that one

I had my snipe set, cleared a spot on the wall, and everything! Now the whole world knows about it. Not cool!
LOL … a teeny tiny spot on the wall!
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Old 07-20-2021, 05:39 PM
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Please.....at that price....and in Colorado.......oh they're smokin' something.
Yes indeed!
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  #5439  
Old 07-21-2021, 05:24 AM
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Thanks a lot for outing that one

I had my snipe set, cleared a spot on the wall, and everything! Now the whole world knows about it. Not cool!
Better jump on the Buy it Now!
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  #5440  
Old 07-21-2021, 09:37 AM
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Well someone got duped … late 1990s repro sold by Mitchell and Ness. In fact my pennant collecting started with a purchase of their reprise and this was one of them… I don’t know of a full-size vintage Orioles pennant with that logo in color.
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  #5441  
Old 07-21-2021, 02:52 PM
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Picked this up, had been looking for this for some time, a WGN ‘54 Indians
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  #5442  
Old 07-21-2021, 02:55 PM
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Domer … remember that other ‘54 Indians we discussed a few days ago? These rectangular “pennants” seem to be from the same maker. It’s pretty much a certainty. Curious, do you still think these are Trench?
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Last edited by thetahat; 07-21-2021 at 04:44 PM.
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  #5443  
Old 07-21-2021, 10:34 PM
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Good observation. Well ... I never thought of that banner (or the similar Dodgers and Yankees versions) as being a strong candidate for Trench; but, I certainly couldn't rule them out. They do look alike, don't they?

Unfortunately, these banners were all made pre-1957, which is about when Tom Storm's father purchased Trench. When I last spoke with Mr. Storm, he could not recall ever making banners (or, "rectangular pennants); but he wasn't really involved in the company until the early 1960s, well after these were made.

Whoever did make these banners, I believe they only made them for the league champions in '52 , '53, and '54, correct? Are there others? I can't recall ever seeing a '54 N.Y. Giants banner that complements this Indians one. But if one was made ... I know two guys who'll know

Here's the only vintage photograph I know of showing a banner like this: https://pennantfever.weebly.com/who-we-are.html

This photo was taken in the center field bleachers at Yankee Stadium during the '53 World Series. I believe there's ample evidence that Yankee Stadium, in the mid-1950s, was a Sport Service ballpark. If so, that makes it more likely this banner was supplied to them by Trench.
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  #5444  
Old 07-21-2021, 11:02 PM
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Curious to get thoughts on this one which just ended tonight for $2300 (plus $5.70 for standard shipping )

Orig 1911 VANDERBILT CUP AUTO RACE Souvenir PENNANT 34" Savannah Georgia

https://ebay.us/qOXEAH

It seems way off to me (despite the sellers guaranteed authenticity). It's very white for 110 years old. Also interesting, it looks nothing like 1910 or 1912 Vanderbilt Cup pennants, neither of which has sewn on letters or images. In fact there is another 1911 Cup pennant that does closely resemble the 1910 and 1912 pennants (and it sold for $5700+ on ebay about 10 years ago). No pin holes seems unlikely as well. Lastly, the image of the car in tonights auction shows only a single driver, while all other pennants have two in the car. I don't know enough about the race or these pennants to know for sure but I see enough red flags that I wouldn't have bid on it. Also below are the other 1910 thru 1912 Vanderbilt Cup pennants...
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  #5445  
Old Yesterday, 08:21 AM
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Default Casey Stengel w/ 1953 Banner

From Getty...




Last edited by bobw; Yesterday at 08:22 AM.
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  #5446  
Old Yesterday, 09:42 AM
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Default New arrivals

A couple of new arrivals today.

Catalog refs: NYG032-TREN and NYYK053-TBC

Not the rarest items but I was happy to pick them up in good condition at a good price.

Any ideas about the manufacturer of the Yankees pennant?
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  #5447  
Old Yesterday, 09:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UKCardGuy View Post
A couple of new arrivals today.

Catalog refs: NYG032-TREN and NYYK053-TBC

Not the rarest items but I was happy to pick them up in good condition at a good price.

Any ideas about the manufacturer of the Yankees pennant?
Yankees looks like a modern creation? Looks stiff and has creases.
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  #5448  
Old Yesterday, 12:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fballguy View Post
Yankees looks like a modern creation? Looks stiff and has creases.
Hi Rob, it is a stiffer variety pennant. But it seems consistent with others that I have from the 1960s. I've taken a couple of close up photos.

I'm open to opinions.
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  #5449  
Old Yesterday, 01:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UKCardGuy View Post
Hi Rob, it is a stiffer variety pennant. But it seems consistent with others that I have from the 1960s. I've taken a couple of close up photos.

I'm open to opinions.
Yeah...Looks like it could be 60s up close. Egner's book labels it 1950s, which would imply soft material. The book is probably just off a decade....or perhaps the material changed over time from the 50s to the 60s.
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Last edited by Fballguy; Yesterday at 01:46 PM.
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  #5450  
Old Yesterday, 02:42 PM
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The Yankees pennant looks good to me. Couldn’t tell you who made it.
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