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Go Back   Net54baseball.com Forums > Net54baseball Postwar Sportscard Forums > Modern Baseball Cards Forum (1980-Present)

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  #1  
Old 01-01-2019, 12:00 PM
Hatorade Hatorade is offline
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Default 1989 Fleer Randy Johnson #381 Marlboro Errors - 30 Years Later

30 years ago today Fleer released their 1989 baseball product. Card #381 had multiple variations of the Marlboro ad being covered and some of those variations also contained what I believe to be a separate printing obstruction error as well. It appears that a rectangular shaped object(card stock?) obstructed part of the printing process and left a footprint that is located between his head and the word pitcher and runs parallel to the blue line. The rectangular discoloration almost appears to have some overspray around its perimeter. The printing error is on a pretty large percentage of cards that have green tinting and not on any of the cards with red tinting. Here we are 30 years later and this is another strange feature to the errors that Iíve never seen discussed.

Is this an obstruction printing defect? If so, during what part of the printing process did this take place?

We have about 800 scans of the cards done so I hope to be updating my Flickr page soon with all the images and also discuss some more details of the Marlboro variations.
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File Type: jpg 3E10C515-18CA-4E47-AEE5-47903723C869.jpg (16.2 KB, 1656 views)
File Type: jpg 2F40F460-FD11-4AC5-911C-CB16FA434F9A.jpg (11.6 KB, 1635 views)
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  #2  
Old 01-01-2019, 12:55 PM
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I find it crazy how little these are discussed. It is the rookie card of a HOFer with multiple error versions. Like the Ripken from the same set I absolutely love all the Randy Johnson error versions and have horded them for many many years.

I personally hated Randy as a player, I collect them because of all the cool variations. I can't be the only one that hated him because IMHO these should sell for WAY more than they do.

Hatorade, When you get the site updated please post it on here with a link.
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  #3  
Old 01-01-2019, 08:55 PM
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Sorry for my ignorance on this topic, but I can't see the difference between the two images. Which one contains the obstruction you are referring to and what am I looking for?

Thanks in advance for your help.

AndyH
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  #4  
Old 01-01-2019, 09:17 PM
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They are really fun cards to collect and rather affordable to do so. I heard about the errors around 10 years ago and thought it was really strange to not hear about a major 80's error until so much later and that such little was known about the cards 20 years after their release. They sure have flown under the radar a bit and maybe these two factors have contributed some to that.

I think its interesting that 2018 Topps cards have over 15 parallels with different colors, Fleer kind of did that with these cards 30 years ago and now this much later modern card companies are artificially recreating this for collectors. The Marlboro variations can almost be viewed as the much older predecessor to these modern variation cards, but with unknown production numbers for the specific variations.
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  #5  
Old 01-01-2019, 09:34 PM
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Andy,

Sorry, both of those are examples of cards with the rectangle area from the obstruction on them. I uploaded 100 or so images onto my Flickr account before I realized that my remaining images were in pdf format and that I needed to have them as JPEG to upload. You can view multiple images of variations that either have or don't have the rectangle in the area left and above Randy's head there.


https://flic.kr/s/aHsmccCSY8
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  #6  
Old 01-02-2019, 10:43 AM
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Wow. I thought I had all the versions already.
Now I have to go home and dig them out again.
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  #7  
Old 01-03-2019, 07:54 AM
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I admit I have several copies but the faint differences are such minutia compared to the mostly easily identifiable Ripken differences make the Ripken so much more fun in my mind.

I think many collectors just need one copy and are satiated, but end up with the Ripken in uncensored first and then end up with scribbles, black box, white outs and sawcuts rather quickly.

Interested in hearing you talk about it to perhaps bring me to a new train of thought. Please add more info as the big Randy collectors and now you and Bnorth.
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  #8  
Old 01-03-2019, 08:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hatorade View Post
Andy,

Sorry, both of those are examples of cards with the rectangle area from the obstruction on them. I uploaded 100 or so images onto my Flickr account before I realized that my remaining images were in pdf format and that I needed to have them as JPEG to upload. You can view multiple images of variations that either have or don't have the rectangle in the area left and above Randy's head there.


https://flic.kr/s/aHsmccCSY8
Hatorade,

Are the slightly darker rectangular boxes that I've circled what you are talking about? Again, sorry for my ignorance here, I'm just trying to learn something new.

Thanks again,

AndyH
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File Type: jpg Randy Johnson Error details.JPG (40.3 KB, 1551 views)
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  #9  
Old 01-03-2019, 08:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CobbSpikedMe View Post
Hatorade,

Are the slightly darker rectangular boxes that I've circled what you are talking about? Again, sorry for my ignorance here, I'm just trying to learn something new.

Thanks again,

AndyH
Yes those are the rectangles he is referring to.
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  #10  
Old 03-06-2020, 11:20 AM
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That is amazing

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  #11  
Old 03-06-2020, 11:43 AM
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Default More pictures

Thanks! Someone on another site asked me to post more close up pictures of the card. I don't have a scanner but here are some more I took with my phone. The scratches near the lower right hand corner are on the case and not the card. Hopefully uploading doesn't compress the quality too much. Steve
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  #12  
Old 03-06-2020, 11:31 PM
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Will you have this card at the National in AC? I want to see it in person.
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  #13  
Old 03-08-2020, 06:16 AM
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Greg: I wasn't planning to attend the National this year. Honestly I haven't been to a card show since the late 80's so haven't really given it much thought. So the not-so-short answer is I'm not sure but probably not.
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  #14  
Old 03-08-2020, 12:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steve5838 View Post
Greg: I wasn't planning to attend the National this year. Honestly I haven't been to a card show since the late 80's so haven't really given it much thought. So the not-so-short answer is I'm not sure but probably not.

Think about it. I'm interested in seeing this
card and of course...possibly buying it.

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  #15  
Old 05-25-2020, 09:41 PM
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Default Is this just the black box?

Iím trying to determine which version of the 89 fleer RJ error I have. It mostly looks like the black box I guess, however there are two little circles that I havenít seen in other examples. Here are pictures and I tried to get clear and close. The circles look to be part of the print. What does anyone here think? Is this version worth anything?

https://imgur.com/a/vZNyWMC

Thank you!
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  #16  
Old 05-25-2020, 10:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jobiegermano View Post
Iím trying to determine which version of the 89 fleer RJ error I have. It mostly looks like the black box I guess, however there are two little circles that I havenít seen in other examples. Here are pictures and I tried to get clear and close. The circles look to be part of the print. What does anyone here think? Is this version worth anything?



https://imgur.com/a/vZNyWMC



Thank you!
Looks like the corrected version

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  #17  
Old 05-26-2020, 09:55 AM
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Quote:
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Looks like the corrected version

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Thank you!
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  #18  
Old 05-26-2020, 06:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jobiegermano View Post
Iím trying to determine which version of the 89 fleer RJ error I have. It mostly looks like the black box I guess, however there are two little circles that I havenít seen in other examples. Here are pictures and I tried to get clear and close. The circles look to be part of the print. What does anyone here think? Is this version worth anything?

https://imgur.com/a/vZNyWMC

Thank you!
It is the corrected version with 2 "fish eye" print spots/defects.

Cool print error card. When I was super collecting the 89 Fleer Johnson cards I would look for and buy cards like that.

As for value it is worth slightly less than a card without the print spots.
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  #19  
Old 05-26-2020, 09:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bnorth View Post
It is the corrected version with 2 "fish eye" print spots/defects.

Cool print error card. When I was super collecting the 89 Fleer Johnson cards I would look for and buy cards like that.

As for value it is worth slightly less than a card without the print spots.
Thank you for the reply and estimation!
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  #20  
Old 06-02-2020, 08:42 AM
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I pulled one the other day out of a rack pack that was the blacked out version, but had a red print dot inside the black box.

A 1/1 from what I have seen!

https://ibb.co/k8DzCzm

Last edited by Statfreak101; 06-10-2020 at 09:53 AM.
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  #21  
Old 06-02-2020, 08:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Statfreak101 View Post
I pulled one the other day out of a rack pack that was the blacked out version, but had a red print dot inside the black box.

A 1/1 from what I have seen!
Post a picture. I have several hundred print flaws.

Yours could be a super dark red tint with the "bubble" spot showing up as red.
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  #22  
Old 06-03-2020, 04:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Statfreak101 View Post
I pulled one the other day out of a rack pack that was the blacked out version, but had a red print dot inside the black box.

A 1/1 from what I have seen!
Easy money! I wouldnít take a penny under $1K for it.
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  #23  
Old 06-19-2020, 02:39 PM
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I still have one of these also. I will post a pic when I get home.

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  #24  
Old 06-19-2020, 03:02 PM
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This is a cool one. I think this is the same version.
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  #25  
Old 06-19-2020, 05:28 PM
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Yes, those are all examples of them. I have just one among all of my box variations. And what a weird way to ďcorrectĒ or cover up the ad!
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  #26  
Old 06-24-2020, 08:18 AM
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Quote:
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This is a cool one. I think this is the same version.
I believe I pulled this version last night out of an early run box from a sealed case.

I will send pics when I get a chance.
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  #27  
Old 06-26-2020, 05:04 PM
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Still related to 1989 Fleer, but not as 'clear' as the RJ Marlboro here are a couple others that also have the sign in the backdrop or atleast a part of it.
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  #28  
Old 06-30-2020, 11:16 AM
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Quote:
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Still related to 1989 Fleer, but not as 'clear' as the RJ Marlboro here are a couple others that also have the sign in the backdrop or atleast a part of it.
Thanks for sharing - to the untrained eye, that looks to be the same background/ballpark in each card.
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  #29  
Old 09-24-2021, 02:24 PM
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This was found in one of my fb groups. He just sent it express to psa.

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  #30  
Old 09-24-2021, 02:42 PM
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WOW! Not seen one that clear before.
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  #31  
Old 09-24-2021, 09:27 PM
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Quote:
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WOW! Not seen one that clear before.
It’s probable that you have seen 2 others in this thread. All three of the “clear”versions are likely very very similar. They will have just a slight hint of tinting on the card and with a picture, the very light tinting isn’t always apparent from what I can tell. It would be awesome to see the 3 clear cards together sometime!!

Last edited by Hatorade; 09-24-2021 at 09:30 PM.
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  #32  
Old 09-24-2021, 02:50 PM
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Quote:
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This was found in one of my fb groups. He just sent it express to psa.

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holy, that thing is sick.

i sent a few to PSA that all looked like marlboro ad on scoreboard to me, and they all came back obscured. pretty dumb when you find marlboros for sale that you can't see the sign at all.
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  #33  
Old 09-24-2021, 05:22 PM
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Quote:
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This was found in one of my fb groups. He just sent it express to psa.

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That is awesome. What does that make, 3 or 4 almost clear versions?
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  #34  
Old 09-24-2021, 09:09 PM
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That is awesome. What does that make, 3 or 4 almost clear versions?
This is #3. Kevinís, Steveís and this one. All three are AOS 9s. Such cool cards and thereís likely a few more.
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  #35  
Old 09-25-2021, 06:46 AM
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Quote:
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This was found in one of my fb groups. He just sent it express to psa.

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hey david, any idea how the owner got it? pack pull?
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  #36  
Old 09-25-2021, 09:18 AM
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No idea how it was pulled, but he listed it for 15k....

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  #37  
Old 09-25-2021, 09:22 AM
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No idea how it was pulled, but he listed it for 15k....

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That is hilarious but the whole hobby is silly right now.
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  #38  
Old 09-25-2021, 09:46 AM
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That is hilarious but the whole hobby is silly right now.
given where things are at, who'd be shocked if someone bought that?
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  #39  
Old 09-25-2021, 09:52 AM
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given where things are at, who'd be shocked if someone bought that?
I wouldn't be shocked at all. I sold hundreds of Randy Johnson Marlboro errors over the last year. Before that you couldn't hardly give them away.
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Old 09-25-2021, 07:56 PM
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Quote:
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I wouldn't be shocked at all. I sold hundreds of Randy Johnson Marlboro errors over the last year. Before that you couldn't hardly give them away.
And theyíre still dirt cheap/way undervalued. All things considered.
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Old 01-03-2022, 06:25 PM
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Iíve been ripping through the packs of Ď89 Marlboros that I had hoarded looking for this card, but no luck.

In all seriousness, itís been somewhat enjoyable looking through monster boxes of Ď89 Fleer cards to see if there may be one of these lurking. I have fond memories of going to shows with my dad and ripping wax packs in search of the Ripken FF. No luck so far, but I still have several hundred cards to sort through.

Interestingly enough, MLB Network aired a Randy Johnson special earlier this evening, which only added to the fun. I donít think I appreciated how good he really was.

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  #42  
Old 01-16-2022, 03:56 PM
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Circling back on my #211 post from 9/27/21... I finally caved and opened the (2) unopened boxes of 1989 Fleer #83261 that I purchased prior to tracking down the latest clear card. Unfortunately I only pulled one RJ card (scribble version). It just boggles my mind how quickly in the process these must have been "corrected". My latest project is tracking down pictures of all PSA 10s labeled "Marlboro Ad on Scoreboard" to get a better idea of the breakdown by variation. So far I have pictures for about 50 of the 94.
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  #43  
Old 01-19-2022, 11:57 PM
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Looking at completed sales for PSA graded Marlboro and Partially Obscured versions and these have really dropped in price, it is kind of crazy compared to six+ months ago.

Recent sales really suggest a trend of "buying the label, not the card" when you examine exactly which versions sold for higher prices. Buyers don't appear to be very discerning as a lot of the higher sales were very corrected or more commonly found types but that had received the 'Marlboro Ad On Scoreboard' designation. Interesting stuff!
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  #44  
Old 01-20-2022, 10:32 AM
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I've noticed the same thing Dylan. Prices are definitely off from their highs. The br2s still seem to get snapped up quickly if the price is right. There was one br2 PSA9 last month that must have sold within minutes for 250... before I was even able to pull the trigger. Demand for the less clear versions isn't as strong though. It is hard for me to gauge demand until I see some high grade br2 or rg2's come to market... I'd be interested in how well they would sell.

For me the most desirable versions are still the ones with the clearest presentation of the Marlboro sign. I like ones that I can show others and they immediately see the difference vs the corrected card. On your site the versions in pictures 1, 2, 4, and 5 really stand out to me and continue to be the ones I seek out. Even though 2 and 4 aren't the rarest I believe demand is relatively strong for them because it is so easy to tell they are Marlboro versions. I was fortunate that one of my first graded card purchases was a BGS9 that happened to be the br2 version. It really piqued my interest more in the card. I used to be disappointed getting cards I thought would be less obscured only to open the mail and not be able to make out the Marlboro letters.

Collecting this card is a real challenge for the completist since the clear and blue versions are so rare... almost to the point of taking the fun out of it. I really dislike that part and think more people would enjoy the card if more of these versions came out of the woodwork. At least with the NNOF card we know there are at least a couple hundred graded examples floating around. The clear and blue version of this card... who knows - and the TPG's don't make it any easier on us. It seems there have to be more of these out there and it is infuriating that we don't really know how many might exist.

Steve

Last edited by steve5838; 01-20-2022 at 11:42 AM.
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  #45  
Old 01-20-2022, 01:38 PM
jacksoncoupage jacksoncoupage is offline
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I've noticed the same thing Dylan. Prices are definitely off from their highs. The br2s still seem to get snapped up quickly if the price is right. There was one br2 PSA9 last month that must have sold within minutes for 250... before I was even able to pull the trigger. Demand for the less clear versions isn't as strong though. It is hard for me to gauge demand until I see some high grade br2 or rg2's come to market... I'd be interested in how well they would sell.

For me the most desirable versions are still the ones with the clearest presentation of the Marlboro sign. I like ones that I can show others and they immediately see the difference vs the corrected card. On your site the versions in pictures 1, 2, 4, and 5 really stand out to me and continue to be the ones I seek out. Even though 2 and 4 aren't the rarest I believe demand is relatively strong for them because it is so easy to tell they are Marlboro versions. I was fortunate that one of my first graded card purchases was a BGS9 that happened to be the br2 version. It really piqued my interest more in the card. I used to be disappointed getting cards I thought would be less obscured only to open the mail and not be able to make out the Marlboro letters.

Collecting this card is a real challenge for the completist since the clear and blue versions are so rare... almost to the point of taking the fun out of it. I really dislike that part and think more people would enjoy the card if more of these versions came out of the woodwork. At least with the NNOF card we know there are at least a couple hundred graded examples floating around. The clear and blue version of this card... who knows - and the TPG's don't make it any easier on us. It seems there have to be more of these out there and it is infuriating that we don't really know how many might exist.

Steve
I agree with all of this.

Two things that really interest me when examining recent sales: If the card gets the Marlboro Ad notation, it sells well in a 10, even if it is actually a heavily edited version. Buyers who aren't obsessive about the minutia of these seem to be interested in the flip notation most.

Secondly, there are some great deals to be found on 9s and 9s with Ad Partially Obscured notations where the actual, specific variation type is, in my opinion, much scarcer than the typical, PSA labeled 'Marlboro Ad' type.

But like you said, the truly tough stuff seems to be selling outside of these trends for much higher prices.
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Old 01-20-2022, 01:55 PM
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I've noticed the same thing Dylan. Prices are definitely off from their highs. The br2s still seem to get snapped up quickly if the price is right. There was one br2 PSA9 last month that must have sold within minutes for 250... before I was even able to pull the trigger. Demand for the less clear versions isn't as strong though. It is hard for me to gauge demand until I see some high grade br2 or rg2's come to market... I'd be interested in how well they would sell.

For me the most desirable versions are still the ones with the clearest presentation of the Marlboro sign. I like ones that I can show others and they immediately see the difference vs the corrected card. On your site the versions in pictures 1, 2, 4, and 5 really stand out to me and continue to be the ones I seek out. Even though 2 and 4 aren't the rarest I believe demand is relatively strong for them because it is so easy to tell they are Marlboro versions. I was fortunate that one of my first graded card purchases was a BGS9 that happened to be the br2 version. It really piqued my interest more in the card. I used to be disappointed getting cards I thought would be less obscured only to open the mail and not be able to make out the Marlboro letters.

Collecting this card is a real challenge for the completist since the clear and blue versions are so rare... almost to the point of taking the fun out of it. I really dislike that part and think more people would enjoy the card if more of these versions came out of the woodwork. At least with the NNOF card we know there are at least a couple hundred graded examples floating around. The clear and blue version of this card... who knows - and the TPG's don't make it any easier on us. It seems there have to be more of these out there and it is infuriating that we don't really know how many might exist.

Steve
Getting good pics of these cards is hard. I have found both for looking at and taking pictures of them it is best to do in direct sun light. Some of the darker tint versions will look like box cards under indoor lighting and as soon as you put in in sunlight the sign is easily seen.

Never had any luck scanning them. I have seen some pretty clear looking signs but the scan is so jacked up the whole card looks radioactive.

I had a guy tell me he used a certain light to get better pics but he never did say what kind of light. What works best for you all?
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  #47  
Old 09-17-2022, 08:02 AM
ejstel ejstel is offline
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Anyone interested in a weekend project?

I posted 50 RJ rookies for sale in the summer.

No Marlboro but maybe some of these other variations?

https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink/top...ink_source=app

Best,
Ed

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  #48  
Old 09-17-2022, 11:27 AM
jacksoncoupage jacksoncoupage is offline
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Anyone interested in a weekend project?

I posted 50 RJ rookies for sale in the summer.

No Marlboro but maybe some of these other variations?

https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink/top...ink_source=app

Best,
Ed

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Do you have better pics of the sign area? The ones I can make out are all the fully blacked out version.
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  #49  
Old 09-17-2022, 05:32 PM
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bnorth bnorth is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ejstel View Post
Anyone interested in a weekend project?

I posted 50 RJ rookies for sale in the summer.

No Marlboro but maybe some of these other variations?

https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink/top...ink_source=app

Best,
Ed

Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk
Relist the Johnson cards with way better pictures and a realistic price and they might sell.

Would need to see what version every card is. Your price would be good if they all had the box version error. The regular version like the ones that can be seen in your listing are $.50 cards on a good day IMHO.
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  #50  
Old 09-17-2022, 07:01 PM
ejstel ejstel is offline
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Thanks- I'm good

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