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#1
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lawsuit against psa for 10.5 million awarded to........
Posted By: scott ingold
I found this on the cu boards and know it wont last long. My ? is how many auto's have actually been looked at ? I mean if they are just slapping peoples names on the stuff. What about Spence ? |
#2
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lawsuit against psa for 10.5 million awarded to........
Posted By: jay behrens
The real question is, will this get the appriotately large headlines it deserves in SCD and elsewhere, or it will it be buried or not even reported on? |
#3
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lawsuit against psa for 10.5 million awarded to........
Posted By: Judge Dred (Fred)
Maybe I just don't get this: |
#4
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lawsuit against psa for 10.5 million awarded to........
Posted By: Hal Lewis
That's why I collect cards and NOT autographs! |
#5
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lawsuit against psa for 10.5 million awarded to........
Posted By: leon
Since PSA is the largest grading company and a lot, if not most, of the board uses them at least sometimes, why would I delete this? If they screwed up again shouldn't it be made known? If SGC or GAI did the same thing (and I don't think they will) then I would let that go too. This is not really a biased board as some others are, in that respect....except that the majority of vintage folks prefer SGC for obvious reasons....regards |
#6
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lawsuit against psa for 10.5 million awarded to........
Posted By: Anonymous
Spence is now working for SGC...(or sub-contracting his services to them) |
#7
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lawsuit against psa for 10.5 million awarded to........
Posted By: jay behrens
I'm sure this guy didn't have a problem with his name on the COAs until he got uncomfortable with the number of fakes that were turning up with his fake sig attached. |
#8
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lawsuit against psa for 10.5 million awarded to........
Posted By: Judge Dred (Fred)
Moderator Dude, |
#9
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lawsuit against psa for 10.5 million awarded to........
Posted By: Bottom of the Ninth
I have always stayed as far away from autographs and memorabilia. I know my signature changes from day to day so how can someone actually authenticate something that is known to vary as much as a signature? There are other issues as well that raise questions as to authenticity of memorabilia but that's for another discussion. I do not know Miller's reputation but I do not hold any of those who authenticate autographs and memorabilia as experts. Just not sure it is really possible to be an expert in that field but I may be totally ignorant. |
#10
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lawsuit against psa for 10.5 million awarded to........
Posted By: barrysloate
Sometimes you will see a lot in an auction catalog that contains, for example, 1500 3x5 index cards each with a ballplayer's signature. The lot description might then conclude "Comes with COA from (whomever)" But if you decide to break up the lot and sell them individually you would need 1500 COA's so that each collector has one to go with his purchase. How does this work? Is this COA photocopied by the auction house or by the new owner? As you can see, I've never bought an autograph lot myself so I have no clue. |
#11
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lawsuit against psa for 10.5 million awarded to........
Posted By: davidcycleback
I understand Miller's objection and would be against my name being used on LOAs like that. However, when I saw one of these LOAs I interpreted it to mean that the faux signatures was merely a list of employees and those who had not hand signed had not examined the autograph. Kind of like a standard company stationary will list as part of the letterhead the founder and president, even though the letter contents may be the secretary asking for more dixie cups for the employee lounge. |
#12
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lawsuit against psa for 10.5 million awarded to........
Posted By: warshawlaw
1. I LMFAO when I read this. 14,000+ bad certs? OUCH! |
#13
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lawsuit against psa for 10.5 million awarded to........
Posted By: DJ
As far as the comments above (BOTN), I can tell you that there are experts in the business that have a great deal of knowledge and can tell in one second whether something is good or something is bogus. A good authenticator takes his job very seriously and as none of us I'm sure can tell the difference between an Elmyr de Hory forgery (back to painting) and a Modigliani, there are those who posses the eye for being able to tell the difference between an authentic Bambino and a forgery. |
#14
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lawsuit against psa for 10.5 million awarded to........
Posted By: barrysloate
Adam- Are you saying there is a realistic possibility that PSA could go under? |
#15
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lawsuit against psa for 10.5 million awarded to........
Posted By: Charlie Barokas
That might be a little extreme,considering the company has $67,000,000 in cash? Are you trying to start a panic? |
#16
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lawsuit against psa for 10.5 million awarded to........
Posted By: Bottom of the Ninth
They have an insurance policy in place. I have not looked at their financials and while 10.5 is a good chunk of change they have some cash, credit lines and a market cap of over 100 mil. I am sure they will weather this storm too. They always seem to land on their feet no matter what is tossed their way. |
#17
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lawsuit against psa for 10.5 million awarded to........
Posted By: DJ
But if you decide to break up the lot and sell them individually you would need 1500 COA's so that each collector has one to go with his purchase. How does this work? Is this COA photocopied by the auction house or by the new owner? As you can see, I've never bought an autograph lot myself so I have no clue. |
#18
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lawsuit against psa for 10.5 million awarded to........
Posted By: Charlie Barokas
IMHO WIWAG was much more severe and PSA seemed to rebound even stronger. Hard to see how this could Bankrupt the company. Even if they had to sell off divisions, there would be a line of people ready to buy the card grading division. Although, GAI and SGC could gain some market share from this. |
#19
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lawsuit against psa for 10.5 million awarded to........
Posted By: warshawlaw
Ever try to get an insurer to pay off, even if there is coverage? |
#20
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lawsuit against psa for 10.5 million awarded to........
Posted By: Bottom of the Ninth
In my limited scope as a business manager I have had no problem getting insurance companies to pay off. 10.5 million was not at stake but there were solid six figure settlements involved. CU's insurer already paid out 600k to Real Legends. |
#21
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lawsuit against psa for 10.5 million awarded to........
Posted By: Judge Dred (Fred)
Going back to that 1,500 autograph "blanket LOA/COA"... |
#22
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lawsuit against psa for 10.5 million awarded to........
Posted By: davidcycleback
The beginning and the end is to purchase a autograph from a known to be respectable seller who has a lifetime guarantee of authenticity. Most respected autograph dealers have this lifetime policy and some autograph dealer groups require a member to have such a lifetime policy. That collectors are buying Mickey Mantle autographs from a seller with a 5 day return window and using a spin wheel to pick a seller, is a deficiency of the sellers as much as anything else |
#23
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lawsuit against psa for 10.5 million awarded to........
Posted By: Todd Schultz
then PSA is covered. If there is even arguable coverage, then the insurer almost certainly handled the defense once the claim was tendered to it, or at least did not object to CU's choice of counsel and general defense. |
#24
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lawsuit against psa for 10.5 million awarded to........
Posted By: Anonymous
Warshawlaw, |
#25
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lawsuit against psa for 10.5 million awarded to........
Posted By: Jeff Lichtman
First off, PSA isn't going under. 10 mil is hardly a drop in the bucket but not the end of the world to a company of the size of PSA. Next, the funniest thing about the 'article' which started this thread is the fact tht it was a press release from the law firm that represented the plaintiff. How ambulance-chasing lame is that? God help me the day that I have to put out a press release and circulate it on the net the next time I have a good day in court..sheesh. |
#26
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lawsuit against psa for 10.5 million awarded to........
Posted By: WP
I agree with the above posts with regard to PSA not going under as a result of this judgement. The real problem as I see it is IF this lawsuit was not disclosed by PSA at the time of the second public offering. That could lead to fines and a potential class action lawsuit which under the right circumstances could bankrupt the company, |
#27
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lawsuit against psa for 10.5 million awarded to........
Posted By: Patrick McHugh
would you buy clct (psa) stock right now. I would wait to see how this plays out. |
#28
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lawsuit against psa for 10.5 million awarded to........
Posted By: Jeff Lichtman
Why on earth would anyone buy the stock? It's hardly a growth company. Their idea of revenue growth is to get into the sealed, wax pack grading game. Hooray! |
#29
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lawsuit against psa for 10.5 million awarded to........
Posted By: Judge Dred (Fred)
If you think the stock is going to dump then sell it short... |
#30
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lawsuit against psa for 10.5 million awarded to........
Posted By: Bottom of the Ninth
CU disclosed in their May 2005 10-Q filing with the SEC the results of the Real Legends case. Was mentioned in earlier filings as well. I did not see mention of the Bill Miller suit until thier Sept 2005 10-K filing. |
#31
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lawsuit against psa for 10.5 million awarded to........
Posted By: WP
BOTN, |
#32
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lawsuit against psa for 10.5 million awarded to........
Posted By: Anthony
I think it's time for a management shakeup at PSA, starting from the top. |
#33
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lawsuit against psa for 10.5 million awarded to........
Posted By: Rick
Judge Rules That Headline of Press Release Prepared by Attorneys for Former Executive Concerning Verdict is Misleading |
#34
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lawsuit against psa for 10.5 million awarded to........
Posted By: davidcycleback
Is the above a press release from CU? The moral of today's story is to not mistake a press release for a independant news article. |
#35
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lawsuit against psa for 10.5 million awarded to........
Posted By: Rick
it came from msn.com... |
#36
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lawsuit against psa for 10.5 million awarded to........
Posted By: davidcycleback
With respect, PR Newswire, short for Public Relations Newswire, is in the business of publishing press releases for companies. |
#37
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lawsuit against psa for 10.5 million awarded to........
Posted By: Anonymous
The Company also compiles and publishes authoritative information about collectible sports cards and sports memorabilia |
#38
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lawsuit against psa for 10.5 million awarded to........
Posted By: Charlie Barokas
The Short-sellers of CLCT might be in trouble if the damages awarded are $14,000 vs. $10,000,00? I am amazed at how many people are rooting for this company to implode? Based on the facts, those same people might want to re-cork the champange bottles. This ruling wouldn't put PRO Grading out of business. |
#39
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lawsuit against psa for 10.5 million awarded to........
Posted By: Jeff Lichtman
Well, as I had said, when a lawyer must resort to creating his own press release in order to get out the news on a 'win' in court, that usually means that the mainstream press doesn't care - and usually there's a reason why they don't care, like in this case, the ambulance chaser got caught in a lie (shock!). If that is the reason the stock got pounded today, tomorrow will be a very ugly day for the shorts who jumped in this afternoon. |
#40
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lawsuit against psa for 10.5 million awarded to........
Posted By: Brian C Daniels
Anthony |
#41
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lawsuit against psa for 10.5 million awarded to........
Posted By: BlackSoxFan
Okay, i'm not saying this will bankrupt PSA..but let's play hypothetical.... PSA goes buhbye. What happens to the whole industry. I'm sorry, but i can't imagine that PSA going out of business wouldn't have a major impact. I am not smart enough to say what that impact is. But.. do you think there is a made rush on their inventory? Do people like Levi drop their prices dramatically? Is there a rash of widespread cracking... what happens? |
#42
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lawsuit against psa for 10.5 million awarded to........
Posted By: WP
People will always collect cards. There was a thriving card industry before PSA and if something happened to PSA the market will adjust. It might be healthy in the long un if the set registry madness cooled off. |
#43
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lawsuit against psa for 10.5 million awarded to........
Posted By: Jeff Lichtman
I was thinking (as the stock market is about to open in two mins) that the reason for the drop yesterday may have been leaked info about lousy earnings. We'll see how it opens today. If it continues to go down (CLCT stock) then obviously the lawsuit was not necessarily the catalyst. |
#44
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lawsuit against psa for 10.5 million awarded to........
Posted By: Green Eye Shade
More than the court verdict, the reason for the stock decline seems to be a weakening in CLCTs earnings performance. Versus the comparable quarter last year CLCTs operating income is down almost 50%. Much of this is the result of increased general and administrative expense. Digging a little further, half of this general and administrative expense increase results from the costs associated with Sarbanes Oxley compliance. This shows the impact of increased government regulation on small business. |
#45
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lawsuit against psa for 10.5 million awarded to........
Posted By: Jim F
As far as I understand, only $14 000 has been awarded so far. The $10mil is a bit premature. As far as the talk of CU going under, even if they do eventually go under, PSA will be spun off and continue business as usual. Psa card grading is still a solid business for the right people. Jim |
#46
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lawsuit against psa for 10.5 million awarded to........
Posted By: BlackSoxFan
I'm not implying that the card industry would be ruined or that it would disappear. I don't think interest or volume of transactions would change. However, some major changes would occur. That I am sure of. What those changes are I am not sure. Yes the hobby would go on. How people acquire cards would not. I don't believe the prices they pay would change significantly would...however something would change. Imagine if Ferarri immploded and all the dealerships/service stations closed. Now Aston Martin and Mazerati would be forced to develop new dealerships..etc..etc..blah blah blah blah. |
#47
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lawsuit against psa for 10.5 million awarded to........
Posted By: Judge Dred (Fred)
Short |
#48
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lawsuit against psa for 10.5 million awarded to........
Posted By: leon
If something happened to Collectors Universe I don't think it would have a long term bad effect on PSA card grading. My computer company I work for declared chapter 11 three months ago. We declared chapter 7 three weeks ago and were bought by a billion dollar company. Why? Because we have a good profitable business that was being run into the ground. PSA will survive regardless of CLCT. regards |
#49
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lawsuit against psa for 10.5 million awarded to........
Posted By: William Heitman
It's not just a problem with autographs. When PSA was first starting up, they were practically doing handstands to get to grade the T206 Wagner that McNall and Gretzky had just bought. I happened to know the pedigree of the card and knew that it had been trimmed. The guy who was going to grade the card stopped by my home on the way to PSA headquarters to grade the card. He knew that the card had been trimmed, but told me PSA had to grade the card because the good publicity that would come from grading the card was all that was important and, besides the card was within the size limitations for T206. I told him that the smaller ones were all American Beauty and he responded that PSA was going to grade the card. I actually talked once to Bruce McNall about this and he acknowledged that he knew the card had been trimmed. So PSA, the owners of the card and the grader of the card knew it was trimmed. But put some plastic over it and all was forgotten. |
#50
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lawsuit against psa for 10.5 million awarded to........
Posted By: leon
That is an amazing story of the card....thanks for posting it....any other comments? regards |
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