Honus Wagner Patterson NJ BB team photo 1896???

[Snapolit1]

I don't agree with any of this "outing" an auction nonsense. None of it. Entirely possible the consignor inherited the piece and had no clue what it was worth. Is there a book somewhere where I can look this photo up and see what the last three sales were? Nope.

[oldjudge]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

I don't agree with any of this "outing" an auction nonsense. None of it. Entirely possible the consignor inherited the piece and had no clue what it was worth. Is there a book somewhere where I can look this photo up and see what the last three sales were? Nope.

Steve is 100% right. Too often old collectors pass away and their families are left to dispose of hoards of material that they know nothing about. Perhaps an elderly man passed away and his widow gathered up his stuff and brought it to Swanns to auction. Had this item not been outed she would have been shortchanged by even more than she was (the photo still went cheap). The fun of the hobby is collecting, not taking advantage of people.
If I see something in an auction or on EBay that I think a friend of mine collects and might miss I always contact them; they do the same for me. Outing an auction on the board is simply an extension of this.

[barrysloate]

I'll go with Jay and Steve on this. If the board prefers a no outing policy, that's fine. But how many times have any of us consigned an item and seen it go for less than we expected? And wouldn't it have been nice if one more serious bidder knew about the auction?

We all want to get top dollar for our consignments, and when we bid get incredibly good deals, but when you get that good deal somebody else is getting burned. Stay quiet if you prefer but I don't think outing is such a terrible thing.

[the-illini]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

I'll go with Jay and Steve on this. If the board prefers a no outing policy, that's fine. But how many times have any of us consigned an item and seen it go for less than we expected? And wouldn't it have been nice if one more serious bidder knew about the auction?

We all want to get top dollar for our consignments, and when we bid get incredibly good deals, but when you get that good deal somebody else is getting burned. Stay quiet if you prefer but I don't think outing is such a terrible thing.

Stuff sells for less than expected all of the time. If you don’t want that risk don’t sell in an auction format. Leon can do what he wants but the last sentence of your first paragraph to me suggests scenarios where people “out” auctions on this board to draw attention to their consignment.

Secondly, if I scour obscure auctions to find something and I locate something I want to bid on, it’s really frustrating to come on this board and see something posted about it, particularly so when the post comes from someone who isn’t bidding.

I think Fred made a simple mistake- he was curious about a piece and asked a question after he thought the auction was over. He wasn’t outing an auction to drum up interest in the piece, which I think is a terrible thing to see happen here.

[barrysloate]

Originally Posted by the-illini

Stuff sells for less than expected all of the time. If you don’t want that risk don’t sell in an auction format. Leon can do what he wants but the last sentence of your first paragraph to me suggests scenarios where people “out” auctions on this board to draw attention to their consignment.

Secondly, if I scour obscure auctions to find something and I locate something I want to bid on, it’s really frustrating to come on this board and see something posted about it, particularly so when the post comes from someone who isn’t bidding.

I think Fred made a simple mistake- he was curious about a piece and asked a question after he thought the auction was over. He wasn’t outing an auction to drum up interest in the piece, which I think is a terrible thing to see happen here.

Chris- Two thoughts. I agree it is odd when someone with no financial or bidding interest outs a lot. I don't know what their motivation is other than draw attention to themselves, I guess.

Second, people can out their own consignments on the board, if I read your comment correctly. THere is a section on BST to do that, either lots one has on ebay or with an auction house.

Ideally, it's probably best not to out. But how realistic is it to assume you found something on ebay and nobody but you saw it? I think people find most of these things eventually. Sure, you may miss a chance to buy something but you will have plenty of other opportunities down the road.

[docpatlv]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

Chris- Two thoughts. I agree it is odd when someone with no financial or bidding interest outs a lot. I don't know what their motivation is other than draw attention to themselves, I guess.

Second, people can out their own consignments on the board, if I read your comment correctly. THere is a section on BST to do that, either lots one has on ebay or with an auction house.

Ideally, it's probably best not to out. But how realistic is it to assume you found something on ebay and nobody but you saw it? I think people find most of these things eventually. Sure, you may miss a chance to buy something but you will have plenty of other opportunities down the road.

Barry, in reference to your last paragraph, I think it happens more than you think. I find items all the time that are poorly listed and sometimes I’m the only bidder. I don’t think Chris is saying no one else will find it, but if you find a hidden gem, would you rather be bidding against 5 people or 500?

And I’m not all for ripping people off, but if people inherit items, why aren’t they expected to do some due diligence to find out if they’re selling something of value. With all that’s out there on the internet, it’s really not that difficult.

[ullmandds]

I agree with those 2 guys!!

[the-illini]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

Ideally, it's probably best not to out. But how realistic is it to assume you found something on ebay and nobody but you saw it? I think people find most of these things eventually. Sure, you may miss a chance to buy something but you will have plenty of other opportunities down the road.

It doesn’t happen like it used to Barry but it does still happen. In late July I found a RPPC on eBay that had several NY Giants in it - one of them happened to be Jim Thorpe.

I won it for the opening bid. Only bidder.

If someone outed that auction before it ended?

[the-illini]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

Steve is 100% right. Too often old collectors pass away and their families are left to dispose of hoards of material that they know nothing about. Perhaps an elderly man passed away and his widow gathered up his stuff and brought it to Swanns to auction. Had this item not been outed she would have been shortchanged by even more than she was (the photo still went cheap). The fun of the hobby is collecting, not taking advantage of people.
If I see something in an auction or on EBay that I think a friend of mine collects and might miss I always contact them; they do the same for me. Outing an auction on the board is simply an extension of this.

Hypothetical question Jay - if I see an uncatalogurd OJ player in a tiny auction and I don’t want the card (I would but whatever) - would you prefer I email you about it or post about it here for the whole collecting world to see?

[oldjudge]

Originally Posted by the-illini

Hypothetical question Jay - if I see an uncatalogurd OJ player in a tiny auction and I don’t want the card (I would but whatever) - would you prefer I email you about it or post about it here for the whole collecting world to see?

I'm fine either way. I don't want to steal cards, just have a fair shot at them. My only regret would be not having the opportunity to bid.

[the-illini]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

I'm fine either way. I don't want to steal cards, just have a fair shot at them. My only regret would be not having the opportunity to bid.

Fair enough - to me if you put something up for sale it is the seller’s responsibility to make sure that they are getting the maximum they can for an item - not me as a buyer.

If someone came to me and wanted to sell an item I would certainly feel a responsibility to help them by pointing them to a reputable auction house that specializes in what they are selling. That said, I don’t believe it is the responsibility of potential buyers to look out for sellers of items currently for sale.

[oldjudge]

Chris-I hear you, but helping the seller achieve a market price is only part of it. Discussing an auction is also giving all potential buyers the opportunity to bid on the item, so no one misses something they collect and may have been looking for. In most markets full disclosure of information is the law. I am just suggesting that full disclosure in the hobby market benefits both the seller and potential buyers, and through increased transparency the hobby in general.

[the-illini]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

Chris-I hear you, but helping the seller achieve a market price is only part of it. Discussing an auction is also giving all potential buyers the opportunity to bid on the item, so no one misses something they collect and may have been looking for. In most markets full disclosure of information is the law. I am just suggesting that full disclosure in the hobby market benefits both the seller and potential buyers, and through increased transparency the hobby in general.

I guess we will have to agree to disagree Jay. In 20 years of being a member of this and other message boards, I don't believe I have never seen a situation where people have outed an auction so that everyone gets a chance to bid on it.

If i put in the legwork to find something that was missed by 90% of the potential buyers, I don't think I should have to worry about that auction being outed on here by an uninterested party under the premise of giving everyone a chance at bidding on it. If I found it other people can too.

Moreover, that opens a pandoras box of non-altrusic uses for outing auctions. People would be using this place as a bulletin board for their auctions that they were concerned wouldn't get the price they want, among other things.

[Bigdaddy]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

Chris-I hear you, but helping the seller achieve a market price is only part of it. Discussing an auction is also giving all potential buyers the opportunity to bid on the item, so no one misses something they collect and may have been looking for. In most markets full disclosure of information is the law. I am just suggesting that full disclosure in the hobby market benefits both the seller and potential buyers, and through increased transparency the hobby in general.

I agree 100%. How does an inefficient market benefit the hobby? How does selling/buying an item at a fraction of market price benefit anyone except the individual collector who is getting a 'steal'. Auctions are meant to bring many buyers to the table and to sell items at what the market will bear. I can not see any wrong when an item sells for what it is worth.

And just stop the "Well I sat for hours/days at my computer searching the darkest holes of the internet to find this auction and now it has been brought to other's attention and I'm not going to be able to underpay for the item."