B18 Grading Question

[rdwyer]

The Top left hand corner to the top right corner is 5 1/4". The Bottom left hand corner to the bottom right corner is 5 3/8". Was this normal? How would it grade?

http://rdwyer.250free.com/B18%20Front.JPG

http://rdwyer.250free.com/B18%20Back.JPG

[canjond]

I think the funky cut is normal on the B18 - sort of like a diamond cut on a t or e card. In terms of grading, I don't know any company other than the old GAI that grades these and I'm not familiar with the grading standards for B18. My guess would be staining would play a much more significant role in the grading than the odd cut.

[rdwyer]

Thank you Jon. Other thoughts from anyone else? Grade?

[nolemmings]

I'm pretty sure these aren't graded by anyone, other than perhaps GAI. I look for full borders all the way around on these, and I think yours comes up short--measure from the middle across and see if it makes 5 1/4" each way. It also appears that there may be stitch marks in the blanket; if so, it would grade good at best, IMO. Usually you can see the stitch holes when you hold it up to a light. If no stitch marks, I'd give it a vg/vg-ex. Nice example, though--I doubt I would grade mine even if grading was available--eye appeal trumps technical grade here.

Edited to add that the uneven cut would not downgrade it much, provided the specs were right all the way around.

[rdwyer]

Upon close inspection, I don't see any stitch marks. My guess is that the color is missing, making it look like stitching. (You can't see through, no holes or thread, etc.) The blanket measures 5 1/4 x 5 1/4 x 5 1/4 x 5 3/8. Middle measures 5 1/14 one way and the other measures 5 1/8.

[nolemmings]

Here is a scan of a WJ that I lost in a burglary several years ago. Note the full borders all around, although there is light pink discoloration along the home to firstbase line:


To me, full borders are the best attribute, and less than 5 1/4 throughout would downgrade. As for grading, IMO fraying or severe staining would be the worst defect. These also suffer from poor registration, fading, product/other staining and centering.

[GehrigFan]

Originally Posted by nolemmings

I'm pretty sure these aren't graded by anyone, other than perhaps GAI.

BVG will grade these.

[nolemmings]

that's good to know, although it appears they do not list that set among the cards they grade:

http://www.beckett.com/grading/lists/bb.asp

[Leon]

Originally Posted by nolemmings

that's good to know, although it appears they do not list that set among the cards they grade:

http://www.beckett.com/grading/lists/bb.asp

That is a small oversight on their list. Since Mark (Gehrigfan) oversees all of the grading at Beckett I am sure they will grade it. regards

ps...Mark- it's almost time for some Tex Mex again.....

[nolemmings]

that's good to know too. Maybe Mark or someone from Beckett can share with Richard and the rest of us what grading standards are applied to B18 blankets, and specifically whether/how the odd cut borders would affect the grade.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by nolemmings

that's good to know too. Maybe Mark or someone from Beckett can share with Richard and the rest of us what grading standards are applied to B18 blankets, and specifically whether/how the odd cut borders would affect the grade.

I know Mark doesn't really get on the board too much on the weekends (we have spoken about it) and was surprised to see him on today. He and Andy Broome (their sr.vintage grader) are both members of our board. Maybe one of them will chime in for us....or email you. best regards

[rdwyer]

I hope they do chime in. It's always a challenge when buying these blankets, because they are very hard to find in NM condition. (What is near mint condition, really?) Because of the material and age, they degrade very easily over time.

[GehrigFan]

Dang - I posted a reply several hours ago but it isn't showing up. Probably hit "Preview" and forgot to hit "Post".

Anyway, yeah, I'm still enough of a newlywed that my honey-do list on weekends doesn't yet include Net54, sorry!

That list of cards we grade is very outdated. I thought we pulled the links in fact, but must not have. Since introducing the ultra thick slab, the 5x7 slab, and the 9x11.5 slab, we can now grade virtually anything up to 9" x 11.5" x 1/4" thick. Not just cards, but premiums, pins, blankets, etc.

I'll have Andy chime in with hints on the B18s.

Mark

[abroome]

I am sorry for the delay in response. It is week before National and I have been quite busy!
As many of you know, we introduced our large size holders just last year. Our new holders have opened
up many new opportunities for us such as postcards, T3's and B18 felts to name a few.
My experience with the blankets is different from other tobacco issues. While many if not most card issues I collected I also had experience with buying and submitting them for grading, the blankets was not one of those issues.
It is no secret the only true way to gain knowledge is hands on. Handling cards and learning the intricate details of a specific issue that separate a near-mint card (or blanket) from a mint example are invaluable in professional grading.
That being said, I will be the first to admit I am stronger in some issues than others. I can run circles around some in certain issues : ) and others I have not handled as much. The B18 is one of those issues. I have had a couple of dozen of the years, most being fairly low in condition but that was before the dawn of “oversize grading.”
I did want to comment of a few aspects that seem to be common with the blankets.
Stitch marks or holes from where these were stitched together to make blankets and pillowcases which, I believe was one of the intended purposes for these, are considered to be a significant defect. This would be similar to stitch marks found on silks. I believe a 2 would be the highest grade possible for a B18 with stitch holes.
Staining, fading and fraying are other serious defects found on B18s. Eye appeal is important on these and the fading really takes away from the eye appeal.
Staining is much like on any issue and again takes away from eye appeal. Obviously stains were not meant to be found on these and I believe these were not in direct contact with the cigarettes. Other than the adhesive strip that bound these, these should be stain-free.
Fraying is not as common as on silks so when it happens on a blanket, it would be considered to be a severe defect.
That being said, I believe some of these defects need to be taken into consideration when grading these because of material and age.
I do believe full color border all the way around is what you are looking for when shopping B18s. While size can vary on these, one must remember that these were cut when making blankets, pillowcases or whatever early 20th century mom was crafting from her cigarette premiums so the size tolerance is in question. At what point is a blanket “undersized?” 5-1/4” each way is the published and ideal size.
Alterations are another area of concern with this issue. Without giving an “Alteration Primer” here, this is something else to discuss.
Again, this is a “new” issue to grading. I am not so naive to say I know it all and I am always trying to learn more about card issues. I would love to discuss this set with B18 collectors to get a feel if we are on the same page and what you guys think about the grading of these felts.
Any B18-heads going to the National dinner?

Andy Broome

[rdwyer]

Thank you Andy for the info. I picked up a few nice ones last week, which I believe to be in really nice condition. I'll probably send them out to you guys within the next week or so to be graded.

[ethicsprof]

Hi Mark,
glad to see you 'round. i didn't recognize you as the Beckett Man when we
'discussed' Thomas Hobbes and Roy Hobbs!!!
all the best,

barry