Theft at Philly Show

[taul166]

I saw some chatter on YouTube about a theft of a nice, graded 1933 Goudey Ruth (Red) from a dealer who was set up at this past weekend's show.

Does anyone know if this in fact happened or know any specifics?

[philliesfan]

I was set up at the show and I did not hear anything about that.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

I did hear about it, though I forget who the victim was. Apparently the classic 2 guys distraction ploy.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

I did hear about it, though I forget who the victim was. Apparently the classic 2 guys distraction ploy.

Hopefully they were caught on video, although I guess so far that hasn't solved the Dallas case as far as we know.

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

Even more incentive as a dealer to stay home and do your business completely online.

With the huge amounts of cash behind dealer tables at shows, these thieves may eventually start weighing the logic of robbing dealers for their money as opposed to items which have to be fenced. Cards have many different ways to be identified; cash does not.

Just one of countless reasons why I'd never set up at a show again. I've done enough of that to last me several lifetimes. What was fun over 30 years ago is today my idea of a horrible way to spend a weekend. Not interested in the torture of getting cornered into long conversations with people who don't spend a dime while a potential sale walks away, let alone the increasing risk of theft or robbery.

[Zach Wheat]

The day will come when dealers at shows won't bring expensive cards to shows anymore.

[parkplace33]

I heard the same thing.

This is now a trend at major (and some small) shows. Be very vigilant out there. Especially to and from shows.

[Snapolit1]

Originally Posted by Zach Wheat

The day will come when dealers at shows won't bring expensive cards to shows anymore.

Or they will hire some professional security help.

[NYYFan63]

There was security walking the show floor but I only saw 1-2 security guards/cops.

[theshowandme]

Yes, I can confirm the theft.

A dealer was also targeted and followed from the show. They had their car windows smashed and had a backpack stolen from their vehicle. This is discussed on the Blowout Forums and was told to me directly by the dealer.

Talking to two close friends who set up, that is the third time a dealer has been followed off-premises and hit in the last year.

It has happened at the WaWa down the road and at other food establishments.

[parkplace33]

Originally Posted by theshowandme

Yes, I can confirm the theft.

A dealer was also targeted and followed from the show. They had their car windows smashed and had a backpack stolen from their vehicle. This is discussed on the Blowout Forums and was told to me directly by the dealer.

Talking to two close friends who set up, that is the third time a dealer has been followed off-premises and hit in the last year.

It has happened at the WaWa down the road and at other food establishments.

That last part is scary.

I think some dealers and patrons have taken a cavalier attitude towards this. Not meant to be scary, but whenever you have a large amount of cash and collectibles in one location, they can be targeted very easy. It scares me when I see dealers set up by themselves with no help. I hope that changes in the future.

[Hankphenom]

Be it ever thus. I'm sure there were thefts at the first show ever held and just about every one since. If it gets endemic, security will have to be ramped up accordingly. When I was a kid in the 1950s, we knew that if you left your bike or baseball glove unattended too long at a playground, they might not be there when you got back. Now, if dealers are getting mugged, that's a whole new ugly ballgame, and the promoters and venues will have to beef up security to try to stop it. Dealers will have to travel in pairs or packs, etc. Cameras everywhere, of course.

[parkplace33]

Originally Posted by Hankphenom

Be it ever thus. I'm sure there were thefts at the first show ever held and just about every one since. If it gets endemic, security will have to be ramped up accordingly. When I was a kid in the 1950s, we knew that if you left your bike or baseball glove unattended too long at a playground, they might not be there when you got back. Now, if dealers are getting mugged, that's a whole new ugly ballgame, and the promoters and venues will have to beef up security to try to stop it. Dealers will have to travel in pairs or packs, etc. Cameras everywhere, of course.

Two thoughts:

1. To be blunt, most show promoters don't take security into account. Its minimal at best, even at the bigger shows. I don't think that changes.

2. Thefts have happened , but 2024 has (sadly) been a banner year for big times thefts. Two that stand out are the Memory Lane Fiasco and the Dallas Show Theft. We are talking about over a million dollars of items stolen. If that doesn't change how people act at shows, then nothing will.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by theshowandme

Yes, I can confirm the theft.

A dealer was also targeted and followed from the show. They had their car windows smashed and had a backpack stolen from their vehicle. This is discussed on the Blowout Forums and was told to me directly by the dealer.

Talking to two close friends who set up, that is the third time a dealer has been followed off-premises and hit in the last year.

It has happened at the WaWa down the road and at other food establishments.

Wasn't there a similar theft from a car at the National? Thought I read about that.

[Schlesinj]

I spoke to the local police who attended the show. They had other private security too. Stinks in general that we have some bad people.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

The theft at food stops nearby is pretty scary. I never even considered that possibility and often stop right outside the show as there are a good amount of choices. So as vigilant as I think I am, apparently I've just gotten lucky (or my stuff just doesn't inspire thieves lol)

[Johnny630]

Word has gotten out over the past few years that many if not all dealers at these bigger shows are wearing, carrying, and or transporting large some's of cash to and from venues. All are hopefully keeping there business to themselves and alternating routes and normal routines at these shows...mix it up next time. They know the dealer circuit...and your behavioral patterns. They see the same dealers at the same shows month after month quarter after quarter year after year doing same..don't do the same routine mix it up a little.

[Hankphenom]

Originally Posted by parkplace33

Two thoughts:
1. To be blunt, most show promoters don't take security into account. Its minimal at best, even at the bigger shows. I don't think that changes.
2. Thefts have happened , but 2024 has (sadly) been a banner year for big times thefts. Two that stand out are the Memory Lane Fiasco and the Dallas Show Theft. We are talking about over a million dollars of items stolen. If that doesn't change how people act at shows, then nothing will.

As I said, if it becomes endemic, promoters will have to beef up security, passing along the costs, of course. But very large thefts have occurred going back many years, the 1991 Anaheim National from McKee/Bosley and Huggins and Scott getting their truck hit in the parking lot at Valley Forge some years ago coming to mind, I'm sure there have been others in addition to innumerable smaller thefts over the years. A wild guess would be that there are 100 individuals and teams at the National every year whose sole purpose is to try to rip dealers off, and any good sized show will have a dozen or so there for that purpose and that purpose only. As for personal security, I remember at the Chicago National in 1998 getting a little tipsy while sitting in on a late-night bar meeting of autograph heavyweights that lead to the formation of PSA, then walking the skyway back to my car on the roof of the parking garage and thinking, "this is not smart, I've got thousands of dollars of cash and collectibles in my bag, and there is not another soul in sight, anything could happen." I was lucky and made it back OK, but just the thought of what might have been made me more cautious after that.

[MJRaider]

Starting to feel inevitable that something really tragic happens one of these days.

[raulus]

Got to wonder when insurance companies will start to jack up rates, or else charge extra for shows. Seems like it’s only a matter of time.

[toppszl1]

I attended the show and didn’t see any security, as a matter of fact the checkers at the door weren’t even inspected wrist bands, it’s a shame with this beautiful hobby that people steal right in broad daylight.

Every vendor was very kind and knowledgeable, this breaks my heart and makes me furious.

[Directly]

A Gold dealer friend of mine purchased $54,000 in Gold Bullion Coins. He was being watched by thieves during the coin show. They followed him to a Cracker Barrel. While inside they popped the door lock and took his briefcase with all the gold coins. If he hadn't left the coins in his car, they had put a spike under his tire to rob him. His good fortune they got what they wanted--

[theshowandme]

[jayshum]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Wasn't there a similar theft from a car at the National? Thought I read about that.

The theft at the National was from an unlocked car. I believe a briefcase with around $275K was stolen.

[steve B]

One dealer I see at shows for a different hobby has boxes of items. All small and easily stolen if someone really wanted to.
But all the expensive ones are only represented by photocopies, and you have to ask to see them. One item at a time, and they have a couple people in the booth.

The off site stuff is more worrying, as they could just as easily target an attendee who bought a great card.

[parkplace33]

Originally Posted by theshowandme

That is a very nice 4. I feel terrible for that dealer.

[Hankphenom]

Originally Posted by jayshum

The theft at the National was from an unlocked car. I believe a briefcase with around $275K was stolen.

That's really nuts, not to at least keep the briefcase in the trunk if the car has one or keep it with you at all times. But the car unlocked with the briefcase inside? There's no words for that. And they must be playing in a different league--how many bring 275K in cash to a show, even the National?

[jayshum]

Originally Posted by Hankphenom

That's really nuts, not to at least keep the briefcase in the trunk if the car has one or keep it with you at all times. But the car unlocked with the briefcase inside? There's no words for that. And they must be playing in a different league--how many bring 275K in cash to a show, even the National?

Here's a link to an article about the theft at the National. While I was surprised by the amount of cash, I was told by a dealer at the Philly Show that having that much cash on hand at the National is not uncommon.

https://www.sportscollectorsdaily.co...rs-convention/

[parkplace33]

Originally Posted by jayshum

Here's a link to an article about the theft at the National. While I was surprised by the amount of cash, I was told by a dealer at the Philly Show that having that much cash on hand at the National is not uncommon.

https://www.sportscollectorsdaily.co...rs-convention/

You better believe it. By both dealers and buyers.

Again, all the more reason to be vigilant.

[G1911]

Is not common sense anymore to not leave $54,000 of gold or $275,000 of cash or cards in your vehicle parked in a public access spot?

The victim of a crime is never at fault, but your odds of being one are greatly higher if common sense is not utilized.

[Qcards]

My friend is a full time coin dealer and has told me that dealers are being followed into underground garages after shows and held up at gunpoint.

He also mentioned a dealer being followed from a show in Montreal and when he stopped in Kingston for lunch, his car was rifled and there was over half a million dollars in cash and bullion.

He had air tags inside the bag but they were cut out and ditched by the bad guys

[CurtisFlood]

One of the funniest things I had occur as a dealer was when a customer walked up and asked me if I wanted to look at his cards. When I reached out for his small stack of cards he pulled back and would not let me take them. Guess he though I was going to rip him off. At that point I told him I wasn't interested.

[Brent G.]

It seems two things could help alleviate some of the risk:

• Stop dealing in cash -- just use the same methods we do here to make sales/purchases. I guess this would require some to pay taxes who don't wanna. It does seem illegal drugs and card shows are the last paper money businesses.

• Hire private security or have a close associate with a .38 or .40 open-carried on their hip to tell criminals you aren't the target they're looking for.

[Hankphenom]

Originally Posted by jayshum

Here's a link to an article about the theft at the National. While I was surprised by the amount of cash, I was told by a dealer at the Philly Show that having that much cash on hand at the National is not uncommon.

I was going to write that must make for some interesting scenes at their banks, but then I realized that money never sees the inside of a bank. It must be like the Sopranos, where Tony would hit up a shoebox in the ceiling or a trash can in the back yard when he needed cash.

[Hankphenom]

Originally Posted by Brent G.

It does seem illegal drugs and card shows are the last paper money businesses.

Are other big collectible shows like this? Coins, stamps, comics, toys, etc., are they mostly cash in/cash out?

[Brent G.]

Originally Posted by Hankphenom

Are other big collectible shows like this? Coins, stamps, comics, toys, etc., are they mostly cash in/cash out?

I'm sure they're the same -- just remove "card" and insert "collectables." I think there’s a lot less $$$ rolling around at those.