Paypal "gift" question

[jg8422]

If you send someone funds as a "personal gift" through Paypal to pay for a card, does the buyer have any protection or recourse if the card never arrives or if it is different than stated?

Anyone have any experience with this "gift" option on paypal as a buyer or a seller? All I know is that the person receiving the "gift" money gets 100% of it and doesn't pay the 2.9% paypal fee.

Thanks.

[Butter]

Absolutely none, unless it's with a credit card. That's why most buyers don't like to use it.

[jg8422]

Originally Posted by Butter

Absolutely none, unless it's with a credit card. That's why most buyers don't like to use it.

Does your credit card company simply take your word that the card never arrived, was not as stated, etc. and refund you money?

[sbfinley]

I don't mind using paying paypal gift as long as I'm purchasing something from someone I have dealt with before and/or the amount is low enough that if I get burned I won't hate myself for being out said amount. My own rule of thumb is when using paypal gift use common sense, because you're level of protection is very low.

[BasherBoy]

I've been using it alot lately both as buyer and seller. As long as you are dealing with somebody you know it's great. Saved me a good bit of money on some lots I've bought. pretty much zero protection though. On the issue of using a credit card to send a gift for some protection, it is pointless. I tried doing it on one deal as an experiment and if you try to send gift with a credit card it charges you a fee as the buyer. If you are going to do that, you may as well just pay regular paypal and agree to cover the seller's fees.

[Big Ben]

Originally Posted by sbfinley

I don't mind using paying paypal gift as long as I'm purchasing something from someone I have dealt with before and/or the amount is low enough that if I get burned I won't hate myself for being out said amount. My own rule of thumb is when using paypal gift use common sense, because you're level of protection is very low.

+1 well said

[scmavl]

PLEASE BEWARE: I use to sell a lot of items via Paypal gift on a high-end guitar forum. After a few thousand dollars worth of sales, I got an email from Paypal saying my account would be closed if I continue to accept gift payments for "what they know are actual purchases."

Be careful what you put in the memo field.

[Rob D.]

Here's a crazy idea: How about instead of trying to avoid the fees that PayPal has established, you just pay for using the service, which has made online transactions much easier.

You're choosing to use a service. Pay for it or don't use it. Pretty simple.

[Kawika]

Originally Posted by Rob D.

Here's a crazy idea: How about instead of trying to avoid the fees that PayPal has established, you just pay for using the service, which has made online transactions much easier.

You're choosing to use a service. Pay for it or don't use it. Pretty simple.

Rob, you are so 2010.

[jg8422]

Originally Posted by Kawika

Rob, you are so 2010.

Rob,

I don't mind paying a resonable amount for a service. However, when you combine the total fees of both ebay and paypal (the same company) their fees, in my opinion, seem to be on the unreasonable side. They pretty much have a monopoly and get away with charging whatever fees they want.

Question to members: Are the combined ebay and paypal fees too high? I am a big believer in capitalism and free markets, however I do not think that makes it right to have such high fees. Too bad there is not much competition out there for ebay/paypal. What gets me is that the only way ebay allows you to pay is through paypal.

Thoughts? MAybe i am just a cheap bastard. haha

[hunterdutchess]

I got screwed using just paypal "goods". I sent $725 trying to save some money for three cards to ebay member "firstbase". I got one of the three and the other two were different and worth much less. When I sent him a email he threaten to go to court over it so I opened a paypal claim and they said that because he has proof of shipment that they cannot issue a refund. So he could have sh*t in a box and sent it to me and paypal would do nothing. I will never go threw paypal for any payment again.

[scottglevy]

Only 'gift' if you trust the person or don't mind losing the funds.

In court the term 'gift' is interpreted just as that ... meaning that it's money paid with no expectation of anything in return -- unless you have explicit written proof that is mutually agreed to mean otherwise (and even then it might not matter).

[Griffins]

Originally Posted by Rob D.

Here's a crazy idea: How about instead of trying to avoid the fees that PayPal has established, you just pay for using the service, which has made online transactions much easier.

You're choosing to use a service. Pay for it or don't use it. Pretty simple.

Well said Rob.

[YankeeCollector]

Originally Posted by Griffins

Well said Rob.

I'd rather pay eBay and paypal fees than a consignment fee and a nearly 20% buyers premium, because even though the seller doesn't pay the buyers premium, it affects the sale price.
For example, I was going to bid for a card that was at 2975 tonight at an auction. But, I didn't because I would have to add the 15-20% buyers premium.

In my opinion, eBay is the biggest bargain for sellers.

[sbfinley]

I don't mind paying a small fee for the right to use their auction format or the payment service they own. When they decide they want a percentage of the cost of shipping, I get annoyed as do other people. If someone wants to throw a $50 card on the Net54 B/S/T and save some money by offering paypal gift I don't mind. Before long it wouldn't surprise me if they wanted a percentage of the cost of the slab of a graded card.

That being said I wouldn't buy a "Super Sik Lebron/Jordan Patch Auto" for 2k from "KingJamesDaBomb" with paypal gift. That's dumb.

But if one of the hundred or so great Net54's I have either met or dealt with before would like to receive paypal gift for a $40 Zeenut I don't mind.

I look at paypal gift as ebay/paypal saying "Yup, we're going to squeeze every cent we can out of you, so here is a bone. But if you're going to be dumb with it and get burned, you are on your own."

[Teamsets4u]

Originally Posted by jg8422

Rob,

I don't mind paying a resonable amount for a service. However, when you combine the total fees of both ebay and paypal (the same company) their fees, in my opinion, seem to be on the unreasonable side. They pretty much have a monopoly and get away with charging whatever fees they want.

Question to members: Are the combined ebay and paypal fees too high? I am a big believer in capitalism and free markets, however I do not think that makes it right to have such high fees. Too bad there is not much competition out there for ebay/paypal. What gets me is that the only way ebay allows you to pay is through paypal.

Thoughts? MAybe i am just a cheap bastard. haha

Kind of the the combine City, State and Federal taxes that are imposed on the sale of items.
And the huge taxes on items such as Gas, Tobacco and Alcohol.

[timzcardz]

Originally Posted by Rob D.

Here's a crazy idea: How about instead of trying to avoid the fees that PayPal has established, you just pay for using the service, which has made online transactions much easier.

You're choosing to use a service. Pay for it or don't use it. Pretty simple.

Thank you!


I personally refuse to do business with anyone that insists or wants payment for a sale to be identified as "gift" for two reasons.


1. I believe it to be dishonest.

2. They entered into an explicitly defined business agreement with PayPal that they willfully choose to not comply with. Why should I believe that they would not shirk their responsiilty in another business agreement, such as one with me to deliver what I pay for?

[Leon]

Also, please remember there is an e-check option that only costs $5 (max) to take any amount of money. There are some guidelines to meet but it's the way I take larger payments to not cost me the +/- 2.9%...

[HRBAKER]

Originally Posted by timzcardz

Thank you!


I personally refuse to do business with anyone that insists or wants payment for a sale to be identified as "gift" for two reasons.


1. I believe it to be dishonest.

2. They entered into an explicitly defined business agreement with PayPal that they willfully choose to not comply with. Why should I believe that they would not shirk their responsiilty in another business agreement, such as one with me to deliver what I pay for?

To me it is akin to walking into a store and changing the price on goods to a lower price to avoid paying for what you are getting. The rationale that the store already makes enough money on the other things that it sells makes no difference. I have used the gift option before to send money to family members, etc. where it was a gift.

And to the OPs original question, why should you have any coverage if you are circumventing the terms of sale for commerce by using the "gift" apparatus. Also the point was made about how this might be an option since it is distasteful for ebay/paypal to charge fees on shipping charges as well. Some of that decision may of come about because some sellers were offering lower buy prices and inflated shipping charges in order to circumvent seller's fees on the true cost of the item.

[4815162342]

IMO, until there's more real competition in the online payments marketplace, PayBay will continue their high price monopoly. Google Checkout maybe?

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by HRBAKER

Also the point was made about how this might be an option since it is distasteful for ebay/paypal to charge fees on shipping charges as well. Some of that decision may of come about because some sellers were offering lower buy prices and inflated shipping charges in order to circumvent seller's fees on the true cost of the item.

I agree with the jist of most of your post, but the final part.............

I really have a hard time believing that. The great majority of sellers did not do that, and it would have been very easy to get rid of the ones that were blatant about it.

It's additional revenue and tantamount to outright theft to me. Paypal I understand taking a cut, but not Ebay. There's also nothing we can do about it because is pretty much a monopoly, so I have to learn to live with it.

It certainly doesn't give me incentive to offer free shipping on auction items. That's almost laughable. Maybe if I offered "Buy It Nows", I would wrap it into the cost, but I don't. I still believe in the "Auction" format.

[Edwolf1963]

I personally don't use or request "Gift" as it is misleading and false if a transaction truly is not one. I started using the "Payment Owed" option ages ago as transactions are indeed a "payment owed', are they not..? As long as I use the link to my bank account - there are no add'l fees to me or the other party and PayPal makes out not having to incur a CC fee and in the float of 3-4 business days to deposit funds into my account. If they didn't make out here or somehow were being circumvented, I'd think they'd take steps to correct it.

To the original question, I don't know if buyer protection comes into play here and/or to what level..?

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by Edwolf1963

I personally don't use or request "Gift" as it is misleading and false if a transaction truly is not one. I started using the "Payment Owed" option ages ago as transactions are indeed a "payment owed', are they not..? As long as I use the link to my bank account - there are no add'l fees to me or the other party and PayPal makes out not having to incur a CC fee and in the float of 3-4 business days to deposit funds into my account. If they didn't make out here or somehow were being circumvented, I'd think they'd take steps to correct it.

To the original question, I don't know if buyer protection comes into play here and/or to what level..?

Payment owed intimates a service or product that has already been performed or is in your possession to me.

I don't think "Buyer Protection" comes into play, similar to a gift. I have used this several times in occasions where it was appropriate and was indeed a "Owed Payment" and no item was undergoing the risk of being shipped somewhere.

[Edwolf1963]

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

Payment owed intimates a service or product that has already been performed or is in your possession to me.

Dave, don't disagree here .. but that's just it - hinting at what it should or should not be - PayPal should either clarify and/or shut the door on this if they feel it's not in the intent/spirit for which it's being used. In your example, then it's OK if I send you the card first (which I do with several Net54 members) and then I get payment because it's a product "that is already in your possession"?

Objectively I can see several sides to this, but IMO since it's not clear, PayPal makes no effort to clarify or close and makes their financial gain in avoiding CC fees and the lengthy float delay in depositing funds back into my account - it's a viable avenue.

[ValKehl]

What timzcardz said +1.
Val

[yanks12025]

What about payment owed. Is there a back up if the seller sells wrong goods or sends nothing. C