NonSports Forum
Welcome to These forums are devoted to both Pre- and Post- war baseball cards and vintage memorabilia, as well as other sports. There is a separate section for Buying, Selling and Trading - the B/S/T area!! If you write anything concerning a person or company your full name needs to be in your post or obtainable from it. . Contact the moderator at should you have any questions or concerns. When you click on links to eBay on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network. Enjoy!
ebay GSB
T206s on eBay
Babe Ruth Cards on eBay
t206 Ty Cobb on eBay
Ty Cobb Cards on eBay
Lou Gehrig Cards on eBay
Baseball T201-T217 on eBay
Baseball E90-E107 on eBay
T205 Cards on eBay
Baseball Postcards on eBay
Goudey Cards on eBay
Baseball Memorabilia on eBay
Baseball Exhibit Cards on eBay
Baseball Strip Cards on eBay
Baseball Baking Cards on eBay
Sporting News Cards on eBay
Play Ball Cards on eBay
Joe DiMaggio Cards on eBay
Mickey Mantle Cards on eBay
Bowman 1951-1955 on eBay
Football Cards on eBay

Go Back Forums > Net54baseball Main Forum - WWII & Older Baseball Cards > Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions

Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-27-2013, 08:35 AM
ullmandds's Avatar
ullmandds ullmandds is offline
pete ullman
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: saint paul, mn
Posts: 11,278
Default Is the baseball card market a "perfect" market? The Demise of the "price guide"

There is no doubt to me that "price guides" have become totally obsolete in regards to vintage baseball cards in this day and age. Their only value is the my opinion.

So should the big catalog(The Standard Catalog) even offer value "suggestions" any more...or should it just be a book of checklists?

A vintage card is worth what someone is willing to pay for it...period. And these hammer prices usually have no relation to what is listed in the price guide.

Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2013, 08:51 AM
bn2cardz's Avatar
bn2cardz bn2cardz is offline
₳₦ĐɎ ₦ɆɄ฿ɆⱤ₮
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 3,023

agreed. If they spend less time worrying about the prices they could spend their efforts each year to better organizing the cards and maybe even redo some of the sets (like mentioned in the Old Judge thread).
Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2013, 08:55 AM
atx840's Avatar
atx840 atx840 is offline
Chris Browne
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Calgary
Posts: 3,741

I haven't needed to use a price guide or VCP type service to determine T206 buy/sale prices. I remember pre-Internet my dad would get the latest price guides when working on our 80/90s cards.
T206 gallery

Last edited by atx840; 06-27-2013 at 09:03 AM.
Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2013, 08:58 AM
ullmandds's Avatar
ullmandds ullmandds is offline
pete ullman
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: saint paul, mn
Posts: 11,278

I use VCP somewhat often to find recent sales prices...this is definitely helpful for more "common" cards...for both buying and selling. IT's the tough stuff that u can just throw the book(s) away for.
Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2013, 08:59 AM
ullmandds's Avatar
ullmandds ullmandds is offline
pete ullman
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: saint paul, mn
Posts: 11,278
Default are correct re. my "perfect market" comment...I def spoke in error!
Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2013, 08:56 AM
CardTarget's Avatar
CardTarget CardTarget is offline Masi.nick
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 191

I would think that a "perfect" market would only be possible if all potential buyers of a card were aware and able to place a bid if the card comes up for auction. This is obviously impossible unless there is a single marketplace - which will likely never happen in this hobby.

Regarding price guides, this has been the case for at least a decade... people are finally starting to realize it. That said, the dealers who pull out a catalog at a show to give you a price are still plentiful.
Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2013, 11:39 AM
conor912's Avatar
conor912 conor912 is offline
C0nor D0na.hue
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 3,163

Originally Posted by CardTarget View Post
That said, the dealers who pull out a catalog at a show to give you a price are still plentiful.
True that.
Items for sale or trade here UPDATED 3-16-18
Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2013, 09:08 AM
novakjr novakjr is offline
David Nova.kovich Jr.
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: 20 miles east of the Mistake
Posts: 2,269

I've always thought that the standard catalog(and most price guides) did a poor job of pricing. Obviously, I don't think that their intentions was to necessarily have accurate pricing though. For what it is, I think they did a good job. But it's fairly obvious that for the most part the cards in any set were pretty much just priced in "suggested tiers"... common, semi, low end HOF, typical HOF, and then the high end guys (like Ruth, Gehrig).. Very little attention payed to specifics(especially in pre-war) for things like Rookie consideration... In many pre-war listings, there are rookies of HOFers(or cards that could be considered a rookie depending on an individuals criteria) that are just lumped in with the typical comparable HOFer price-wise. When in reality, they seem to command a little more of a premium in the open market, due to their being a growing number of rookie collectors. I'm sorry, but a (reasonably considerable) "rookie" of a HOF player is worth more than a comparable HOFer who is in his 16th season...

Yes, I know the rookie thing in terms of pre-war is somewhat subjective, and almost a taboo topic with some collectors, but to completely ignore it as a factor in this suggested pricing is kinda silly.. If a premium can be given to Yankees/Dodgers in the pricing, then one should also be given to actual (or potentially acceptable) rookies...

If this same pricing were applied to modern cards, then I guess a 1982 Topps Cal Ripken rookie would be worth the same a 1982 Topps Nolan Ryan.. Or the 1978 Topps Paul Molitor rookie would be worth the same as a 1978 Topps Rod Carew... Ridiculous, right?

For the record, I really only use these as checklists too...

Last edited by novakjr; 06-27-2013 at 09:10 AM.
Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2013, 09:12 AM
Leon's Avatar
Leon Leon is offline
peasant/forum owner
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: near Dallas
Posts: 34,596

The last Beckett guide I looked at, 1 yr ago, was spot on for vintage pricing. I tried my hardest and couldn't find an error. We gave out around 10-20 of them at the last dinner and I never heard from anyone that said there were glaring errors in the vintage section. I didn't look at the newer cards as I have no interest in them. As for the Krause big book, it's hit or miss, imo.....LL
Leon Luckey
Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2013, 09:27 AM
glchen's Avatar
glchen glchen is offline
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 2,935

I think the prices in the price guides are still good from a relative standpoint. For example, you might not realize that the Stengel is a short print in the Maple Crispette set unless you saw the price for that card relative to the other cards in the price guide. Another example is Moe Berg in the 1933 Goudey set, who a collector new to the set may just think should be priced like a common.
Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2013, 10:02 AM
Rich Klein Rich Klein is offline
Rich Klein
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Plano Tx
Posts: 4,525
Default As a person who did pricing for many years

No, no guide can ever be perfect because we are in many cases shooting at a moving target.

In addition, especially in the thinly traded sets, one or two big sales or sales below expectiations can certainly change the perception of what something is worth.

As for VCP remember that not all "6's" are truly alike as some may be technically a six but not look as nice as cards which are 4's.

Where cataloguers and pricers have to make sure they are correct is in the checklisting of information. Because pricing can always be adjusted but bad data is much harder to fix.

For those thinly traded vintage sets my goals were thus

1) Get the checklist IN and correctly
2) Get an image for the card so we could see what said card in a set looked like
3) Get the pricing right.

Remember Step 3 is easier to do when steps 1 and 2 are completed.

And for Beckett, getting Steps 1 and 2 right are even more important since BGS and COMC, among others, needs to use those checklists.

Step 3 is also important but can wait for 1 and 2

Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2013, 10:52 AM
arc2q arc2q is offline
And.rew C0rs0
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Alexandria, Virginia
Posts: 324

I agree they are growing in obsolescene from the days when a price guide was the primary source of such information. It seems almost comical when you see auction descriptions say something like, "The card is worth $1500." It is worth what it sells for at auction -- something you will find out conclusively in 6d23h. Auctions are not a perfect market but they are far more reliable as a price determination than a price guide which may be based on total speculation.

I wonder why price guides like SMR have to be published every month? They seem to be using up a lot of content space for reprinting the same list (which is dubious to begin with) each month -- and they never change. They only list certain sets and then refer you online for other sets. Why not vary which sets are included in the price guide each month?

The thing that bugs me in price guides are the modern card listings (I have said this before so it is almost like my mantra). They throw around values that you know are totally made up and it is what leads to ridiculous bubbles. How does anyone know what the limited edition, signed, orange chrome, refractor card of the next supposed superstar rookie would really be worth when it has only been printed and available for two weeks and has never properly been exposed to the market? Yet they'll stick some number like $10000 next to it. Who would pay $10000 for a card printed last week of a player who probably has 3,000,000 different cards in print anyway?
Reply With Quote

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
REA Results and "The Market" Bosox Blair Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 43 05-26-2013 11:24 AM
A market for "known" forgeries? Anything else like this? (slightly O/T) scooter729 Net54baseball Sports (Primarily) Vintage Memorabilia Forum incl. Game Used 9 01-05-2011 01:33 PM
Large amount of "e", "w", and "t" cards (and more) for sale/trade!! shammus Pre-WWII cards (E, D, M, W, etc..) B/S/T 0 12-19-2010 11:31 AM
Are "Flea Market's" dead? hunterdutchess Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 10 09-22-2010 09:26 AM
For Sale 2 Don Larsen NY YANKEES Signed Photos of "The Perfect Game" PRICE REDUCED Archive Baseball Memorabilia B/S/T 0 06-14-2008 06:29 PM

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:46 AM.

ebay GSB