Who Should Be in the Hall that isn't

[Frank A]

Just a question to you guys who picked Pete Rose. Do you honestly believe that if he was in debt enough to his bookie that he would not have thrown a game as manager? The man is a complete liar and addicted to gambling. He should never get in.

[FrankWakefield]

I almost agree with Frank A above...

I'm ok with Pete getting in, any day he buys an admission ticket, just like the rest of us. That's the only way he gets into the Hall.

Anyone who can't see that should read The Fix Is In: A History of Baseball Gambling ... - by Daniel E Ginsburg , one fine book. It really opens one's eyes to what has been done in the game. It addresses Pete's escapades, and many more before that... in the majors and minors. A well written, thorough book.

[Mark]

Larry Doyle, Art Nehf, Babe Adams, Harry Stovey, Ron Santo, Heine Groh.

[Robextend]

Originally Posted by steve B

Evans wasn't flashy at bat, but was a fantastic fielder but that rarely counts for HOF voting. At bat he wasn't all that bad either, he played in an era when 400HR was usually a sure thing, but fell a bit short He led the AL in HR and extra base hits from 1980-1989

Besides Ron Santo and Jimmy Ryan I was really thinking about Evans. He career is terribly underrated and overlooked.

Also check out the stats for Ted Simmons, I'm not saying he belongs in the HOF by any means, but this guy was some hitter and very overlooked.

[paul]

I hate to show my ignorance, but what did Carl Mays do that puts him in the same category as Hal Chase and the Black Sox? I know he threw the pitch that killed Ray Chapman, which is a horrible thing. But was it an intentional beanball?

[Robextend]

I believe Mays beaning was a spitball that had gotten away from him.

I could be wrong, but I thought Mays was also accused of throwing games?

[tbob]

Mike Donlin.
Bert Blyleven.
Tony Oliva.
Ron Santo.
Ed Reulbach.
Joe Jackson.
Pete Rose.

[tbob]

5 voters submitted blank ballots. Blyleven lost out by 5 votes. Karros got 2 votes. Put these all together and you have idiocy.

[calvindog]

John Candalaria
Bruce Kison
Fred Lynn
Mike Easler
Will Clark
Frank Tanana

[Bosox Blair]

Originally Posted by Robextend

I could be wrong, but I thought Mays was also accused of throwing games?

Right you are.

Cheers,
Blair

[tbob]

Originally Posted by calvindog

John Candalaria
Bruce Kison
Fred Lynn
Mike Easler
Will Clark
Frank Tanana

Jeff- you forgot Dock Ellis who for no other reason should be in for pitching a perfect game while under the influence of LSD. Let's see Clemens try that!

[Bosox Blair]

Originally Posted by Robextend

I believe Mays beaning was a spitball that had gotten away from him.

At least one report has it as a high fastball thrown to move Chapman off the plate. Chapman never saw it and never moved. Mays was no stranger to a hit batsman. Mays was cleared of criminal wrongdoing in Chapman's death after an interview at the DA's office.

Cheers,
Blair

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by tbob

Jeff- you forgot Dock Ellis who for no other reason should be in for pitching a perfect game while under the influence of LSD. Let's see Clemens try that!

Good point. And speaking of Clemens, how nauseous do you think he gets everytime the HOF inducts players? I can't wait for his first year on the ballot. Will he do better or worse than McGwire? I actually hate him much more than McGwire, not even close.

[toppcat]

Hodges, Dahlen and Blyleven.

[Ejm1]

Pete Reiser, just for getting last rites at the ballgame. I think thats makes him one of a kind.

[batsballsbases]

I to would have to say
Munson
Santo
Hodges

[Epps]

Hodges
Maris
Rose

[tennisguy]

Sherry Magee

[WWGjohn]

My pick would be Jim Kaat. 283 wins and 16 gold gloves seem to me to be excellent credentials.

John

[ChiefBenderForever]

Yes Pete Rose was addicted to gambling, women, and who knows what else but what does that have to do with being one of the greatest hitters ever not to mention more hits than anyone to ever play the game ! So do we remove Babe Ruth and Mickey Mantle because they were women chasing alcoholics ? Ty Cobb, where do you even start ? Tris Speaker ? Wade Boggs ? Mike Schmidt ? It's the hall of fame, not the hall of morals. I'm fine if Pete Rose doesn't get in , but then many, many great players need to be removed. Hank Aaron, Willie Mays, and many great players have admitted to taking speed pills to keep the energy going so is it fair for Clemens, Mcguire, and others who used a substance before it was even banned to not get in ? I think Clemens has to be let in, he was one of the greatest pitchers to ever step on the mound.

[Robextend]

I would like to have Pete Rose in as well, but he gambled on games his team played in. Then he lied about it for years even though there was plenty of evidence. If he came clean when it happened we probably wouldn't even be having this discussion right now.

[White Borders]

Don Newcombe

Win–Loss record 149–90
Earned run average 3.56
Strikeouts 1,129

Career highlights and awards
4× All-Star selection (1949, 1950, 1951, 1955)
World Series champion (1955)
1956 NL MVP
1956 Cy Young Award
1949 NL Rookie of the Year
1956 NL TSN Pitcher of the Year

Plus he was a pretty darn good hitter.

Unfortunaley, I think the two years he was away from basebll hurt is career stats too much.

[FrankWakefield]

JohnnyHarmonica, if I were assembling a team of ballplayers of all eras, to play ONE game, a game that had to be won, I think I'd want Pete Rose on that team. His quote, "I'd walk through hell in a gasoline suit to play baseball.", was one memorable comment, and I think he meant it. A fierce competitor. I'd want him on the team if I had to win one game. He has no place in the Hall. Read The Fix is In. After you've read that, the entire book, so you get the background of how the leagues were formed and the focus on rooting gambling out of the game during the game's infancy, then see if you can offer a sensible reason for Pete going in.

[ChiefBenderForever]

Frank,

I can't disagree with you, it's just such a sad disgraceful story. Charlie Hustle became Charlie Hustler and the worst part is he had a chance to make it right in front of everyone. If he had just said 'I am sorry' I think he would've been forgiven. But to lie and then write a tell all book to get more money to gamble pretty much sealed the doors to the hof shut. It still doesn't change the fact that he has more hits than anyone, and the gambling he did was done as a manager but he broke the rules and even worse lied. If Clemens would've been honest instead of lying I think he would have a good shot to get in but the lies compound it into something much worse.

[bobbyw8469]

My short list...I am not an expert or anything, but I am thinking....

#1) Roger Maris
#2) Pete Rose
#3) Don Newcombe
#4) Ron Santo

[DanP]

Pete Rose
(I can't stand the sight of him, but he definitely should be in). I'm OK with inducting him the year he dies. I really don't want to see him benefit from being inducted.

Joe Jackson
Ron Santo
Gil Hodges
Luis Tiant (great stat's, personality has to count for something)

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Fred Lynn would have been in if he stayed with the Red Sox
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How about Horace Clarke? Was there ever a worst lead-off hitter?

[Frank A]

Fred Lynn played the outfield so hard he destroyed himself. You can't keep running into walls. He really was a great player.

[howard38]

The guy Horace Clarke replaced at leadoff hitter (and at second base), Bobby Richardson was as bad as Horace.

[SteveMitchell]

but I particularly like:

Bert Blyleven
Jim Kaat
Lee Smith
Wes Ferrell
Smoky Joe Wood
Urban Shocker
Cecil Travis
George "Tioga" Burns
Bob Johnson
Bobby Mathews
Dave Foutz

[3and2]

Gil Hodges
Roger Maris

[pokerrvp]

Totally agree with Bert Blyleven

[sportscardtheory]

I'm not going to go too far back, but here are a few I believe should be in.

1. Jack Morris (led the '80s in wins and was a post-season stud)
2. Bert Blyleven (3,701 Ks)
3. Tim Raines (808 SBs and .385 career OBP)
4. Tommy John (288 wins + average 12 wins per season, he missed a full season due to injury, = 300 wins)
5. Lee Smith (simply one of the best closers of all-time and 3rd in career saves)

[danc]

I think the Hall is in shambles to be honest with you as it is now recognizing people it didn't recognize years before. Watered down. I do not think any of the steroid generation should get in (or Blyleven), but they should start rewarding the characters whose past discretions were an issue, like Rose and Jackson...and if Mazeroski is inducted, let's throw the Maris family a bone, since baseball took away his honest record.

Marvin Miller
Pete Browning (can't wait to see the Coach's Corner signatures of Browning, who couldn't write his name)
Pete Rose
Gil Hodges
Roger Maris
Harry Stovey
Joe Jackson
Chris Von Der Ahe

DanC

[Brian-Chidester]

Shoeless Joe, Domenic DiMaggio, Sherry Magee, Vada Pinson, Dave Parker, Pete Rose, Tim Raines, Tony Oliva, Bert Blyleven, Roberto Alomar, Babe Herman, Lee Smith, Lefty O'Doul, Jim Kaat, Jack Morris, Roger Maris and Maury Wills.

As for someone who should NOT be in...

Someone explain Kiki Cuyler to me. I'm not saying he definitely shouln't be, but th stats don't speak volumes to me.

Also, Bill Mazeroski and Gary Carter.

[paul]

If you're wondering about Cuyler, you should be wondering even more about Hafey.

[Brian-Chidester]

I'll have to look him up. Was just going through my 1961 Fleers this morning and reading stats, not fully comprehending Kiki Cuyler's induction, so I went and dug further on Wikipedia, SABR and Baseball-Reference. It's still not adding up, stats-wise, but with the Hall, it's not always about stats alone.

[Robextend]

Cuyler IMO is more deserving then a few others. Not being part of the era that these guys came from makes me hesistant to argue too much.

I would say the stats of Chick Hafey, Ray Schalk, and Travis Jackson make me scratch my head...

[birdman42]

Lave Cross usually shows up in these discussions. Also agree with Cecil Travis, Joe Judge, and Gil Hodges.

Bill

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

Originally Posted by danc

Pete Browning (can't wait to see the Coach's Corner signatures of Browning, who couldn't write his name)

He could. He once angrily sent his signature to a newspaper as proof of his "literacy". Granted, Joe Jackson could do a better job, but you can still make out the full name. It's almost certain that no holographic material survived on Browning, however.

[Brian-Chidester]

After reading Donald Gropman's book, I can't help but lament how things went down with Happy Chandler. He seemed the most level-headed of all commissioners, with the least amount of axes to grind. His take on Shoeless Joe should have garnered greater consideration from later commissioners, as from Giamati onwards, these men have taken the path of least resistance, claiming largely that it is too old to dig up something decided upon so long ago.

What a bunch of wimps.

[Touch'EmAll]

I know he didn't play all that long. But he was the most spectacular sports figure of our generation, sorry M. Jordan. He was the most talented and gifted athlete of perhaps all-time.

If its "Fame" as in Hall of Fame you are after, then please, either Baseball or Football, or both, put in:

Mr. Bo Jackson

[Bornagaincollector]

There are some just names being mentioned,i will add 1 for consideration and opinions are welcomed.How about Albert Belle?His #'s are pretty darn good before he got hurt and he was robbed of the 95 MVP and 1995 was 1 of the best seasons overall for anyone in the last 25+ years.

[packs]

I wouldn't have any problem with Albert Belle being in. Ross Youngs died during his career, but he had a similarly short one. I can't think of any other players in the league who were in Belle's class besides Ken Griffey Jr and Frank Thomas at the time and they are both surefire HOFers.

[Anthony S.]

I'd let Albert Belle in if they unveiled his plaque during his acceptance speech and it read "Joey Belle." He'd probably start throwing the lighter HOFer's in attendance at the plaque. Good TV.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by 100backstroke

I know he didn't play all that long. But he was the most spectacular sports figure of our generation, sorry M. Jordan. He was the most talented and gifted athlete of perhaps all-time.

If its "Fame" as in Hall of Fame you are after, then please, either Baseball or Football, or both, put in:

Mr. Bo Jackson

If there were a multi-sport HOF, he would be a shoe-in, but just for baseball...no way.

But...Ed Reulbach and Don Mattingly would make my HOF, and the ejected short list would be Phil Niekro, Phil Rizzuto, Pee Wee Reese or Don Sutton.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by Anthony S.

I'd let Albert Belle in if they unveiled his plaque during his acceptance speech and it read "Joey Belle." He'd probably start throwing the lighter HOFer's in attendance at the plaque. Good TV.

His only problem is that he pissed off all the sports writers - they will never vote him in. To be on 'their' bad side and still get in, you actually have to be a qualified HOF'er, like Ted Williams.

[drc]

I don't think he's Hall worthy, but if you read his stats Belle had some years where he put up Ruthian numbers.

I also agree that Bo Jackson was great. I can't stand Deon Sanders' personality (Can anyone?), but he was a first team all-time great football player and a legit MLB baseball player. He would have had a fine MLB career if he'd did it full time. Again, I can't stand the guy, but he was one of the 4-5 best football players I've ever seen, and I've seen folks like Walter Payton and Lawrence Taylor.

[KNH]

Since the start of this thread there have been many names listed that we think should be in the HOF. My question is this:

Would you rather have 1 or 2 guys that may be deserving miss the hall of fame or have a couple dozen get in that maybe aren't deserving?

This is the HOF. It is not for the "very good" or the "could have done this if" players. There are way too many of those players mentioned. As previously stated. Let's not water it down.

[Edwolf1963]

Andy Stankiewicz

(Just kidding )

Seriously, didn't see Allie Reynolds on anyone's list. (I may have overlooked?) Always thought he deserved.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allie_Reynolds

[Joe_G.]

There are several great players that deserve consideration, but one, that has unjustly been denied admission. I'm astonished that on a pre-war board his name wasn't mentioned with regularity, only finding his way onto a couple posts. In the 1870s, when the catcher's position was of utmost importance (make or break a team), he was the icon of the game. He then transitioned to 3rd base where he played very well. Championships followed him where ever he went. I challenge anyone to read the book "Catcher" by Peter Morris and not include Deacon White as your top choice as most deserving.