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  #101  
Old 05-27-2019, 06:15 PM
kateighty kateighty is offline
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Haven't logged in for quite some time but have still tried to keep up with the board (too lazy to deal with recovering my password). The guilt trips of "where are the other members?" worked so I'm back. That and I'm really bothered by all of the recent nonsense. Strength in numbers!
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  #102  
Old 05-27-2019, 06:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Goudey77 View Post
Fun facts...you guys realize there are over 10,000 members on Net54 and hey guess what? I see the same handful of guys talking about the same thing on multiple threads. Itís very possible the other 9,990 members have differing opinions. So where is this going to lead us...Iíll give 9,990 : 1 odds that someone starts another thread related to the same topic.

Take a vacation and enjoy the rest of your holiday weekend!
What exactly is the "differing opinion" from the "handful of guys talking about the same thing?" Fraud is a good thing?

Edd*e Sm*th
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  #103  
Old 05-27-2019, 06:48 PM
CMIZ5290 CMIZ5290 is offline
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Originally Posted by Goudey77 View Post
Fun facts...you guys realize there are over 10,000 members on Net54 and hey guess what? I see the same handful of guys talking about the same thing on multiple threads. It’s very possible the other 9,990 members have differing opinions. So where is this going to lead us...I’ll give 9,990 : 1 odds that someone starts another thread related to the same topic.

Take a vacation and enjoy the rest of your holiday weekend!
Would love to hear from them....

Last edited by CMIZ5290; 05-27-2019 at 06:50 PM.
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  #104  
Old 05-27-2019, 07:08 PM
kateighty kateighty is offline
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Originally Posted by Bored5000 View Post
What exactly is the "differing opinion" from the "handful of guys talking about the same thing?" Fraud is a good thing?

Edd*e Sm*th
Yes! What you have in quotes is exactly why I decided to come back here. I agree with the majority of guys here. Except I'm a chick. So make that a handful of guys and one chick. Though I do believe it is important to have an open platform to share differing opinions.
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  #105  
Old 05-27-2019, 07:11 PM
CMIZ5290 CMIZ5290 is offline
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Nice to have you aboard Kat....I'm wondering if PWCC is getting lessons from R.P. aka "Mr. Shill"
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  #106  
Old 05-27-2019, 07:18 PM
robkas68 robkas68 is offline
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Default card doctors

I would dispute that the card doctors are widely known. They may be known in some advanced circles, but some of the individuals named have thousands of positive feedbacks on ebay meaning that there are lots of collectors that donít know. I can say I did not know everyone on the list. I even made 3 purchases from one on the list (not Moser) (the 3 totaled $216 all bgs and may be fine, but who knows).

However, I am not sure knowing names helps that much. Twenty years ago you could just name the 10-12 dealers you would not do business with. Today with the internet and auction houses you are dealing with literally thousands of individuals. Outside the obvious, buyer beware, deal too good to be true, etc., there are only two defenses. The intermediaries (ebay, HA, REA, PWCC, etc.) and the TPGs. Only time will tell if any of the intermediaries are directly involved or just terribly indifferent. What is clear is the intermediaries and TPGs are not very good at their jobs right now. Eventually, if you are not good at your job, people find someone better at it.

Rob Kasenter
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  #107  
Old 05-27-2019, 07:27 PM
kateighty kateighty is offline
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Originally Posted by CMIZ5290 View Post
Nice to have you aboard Kat....I'm wondering if PWCC is getting lessons from R.P. aka "Mr. Shill"
I've been aboard! Honestly I stopped signing in a few years ago because I felt a bit ganged up on. I love pre-war cards just as much as everyone else here but only got into it in the last ten years or so and I'm in my mid 30's. I think that RP was a set up!
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  #108  
Old 05-27-2019, 07:52 PM
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Originally Posted by robkas68 View Post
I would dispute that the card doctors are widely known. They may be known in some advanced circles, but some of the individuals named have thousands of positive feedbacks on ebay meaning that there are lots of collectors that don’t know. I can say I did not know everyone on the list. I even made 3 purchases from one on the list (not Moser) (the 3 totaled $216 all bgs and may be fine, but who knows).

However, I am not sure knowing names helps that much. Twenty years ago you could just name the 10-12 dealers you would not do business with. Today with the internet and auction houses you are dealing with literally thousands of individuals. Outside the obvious, buyer beware, deal too good to be true, etc., there are only two defenses. The intermediaries (ebay, HA, REA, PWCC, etc.) and the TPGs. Only time will tell if any of the intermediaries are directly involved or just terribly indifferent. What is clear is the intermediaries and TPGs are not very good at their jobs right now. Eventually, if you are not good at your job, people find someone better at it.

Rob Kasenter
Fair enough, but the auction houses and ebay sellers who have taken their cards for years know damn well who they are, I believe. $$$$$ trumps all. There are plenty of enablers.
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  #109  
Old 05-27-2019, 09:47 PM
The Nasty Nati The Nasty Nati is offline
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I wonder if these trim doctors have any connection with the T206 auto frauds. And what ever happened to that?
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  #110  
Old 05-27-2019, 09:49 PM
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Yes there are some bad people out there and they are known. But they have ways of getting around the system of course. I am sure they have lots of other people submitting for them. If they really want to stay in business there really is no stopping them.

The only way to stop them is the the TPG's have to do a better job and be stricter on their measurement standards. How hard is it to make up a metal jigs and if the card fits in it then it is too small and should not get a numerical grade. Seems to me that most of cards that just got by the TPG were mostly trimmed and cleaned up. I am willing to bet they did not even bother to measure them. Guess they never thought it possible that someone would need to trim down a modern card.

To many cards in the queue and not enough graders so they are being pushed to move the cards through the system as fast as they can. Sounds like steps are being missed and scandals are happening.
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  #111  
Old 05-28-2019, 03:41 AM
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Did VCP remove eBay buyer data recently? I know that information was helping the Blowout Detective Agency (BODA) connect some of these dots. If it's a temporary glitch, it would be nice to see it return.
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  #112  
Old 05-28-2019, 04:13 AM
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Originally Posted by swarmee View Post
Did VCP remove eBay buyer data recently? I know that information was helping the Blowout Detective Agency (BODA) connect some of these dots. If it's a temporary glitch, it would be nice to see it return.
Itís still gone. Why??
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  #113  
Old 05-28-2019, 04:56 AM
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FINALLY I know what BODA means

Quote:
Originally Posted by swarmee View Post
Did VCP remove eBay buyer data recently? I know that information was helping the Blowout Detective Agency (BODA) connect some of these dots. If it's a temporary glitch, it would be nice to see it return.
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  #114  
Old 05-28-2019, 05:12 AM
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Itís still gone. Why??
Strange coincidence especially since Bobby just posted?
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  #115  
Old 05-28-2019, 05:29 AM
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Has there been any comment from any of the owners of these doctored cards who have contacted PSA, and what PSA's response has been?

You would think the people in charge over at PSA would want to get on top of this as soon as possible. Even a statement claiming that these cards represent only a small percentage of the total number of graded cards, blah, blah, blah. The silence from PSA is becoming deafening isn't it ?

And now with the elementary schools getting out for the summer, a whole new batch of graders is likely being hired. PSA, at the very least, is going to have to modify their training for this year's kids.
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  #116  
Old 05-28-2019, 06:38 AM
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Is anyone making a list of all the scammers being exposed?

I might be movin' to Oregon soon
Just to conserve some cards
Trimming them up
Waxen it down
Sending in a little white box
I can sell through Pwcc
By myself I wouldn't
Have no boss,

Well I just might grow me some bees
But I'd leave the sweet stuff
For somebody else...
but then, on the other hand
I'd Keep the wax N' melt it down
Pour it on the cards N' swish it aroun'

Movin' to Oregon soon
Gonna be a card conservation tycoon
(yes I am)
Movin' to Oregon soon
Just me and my pygmy pony.

Last edited by bnorth; 05-28-2019 at 07:16 AM.
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  #117  
Old 05-28-2019, 07:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bnorth View Post
Is anyone making a list of all the scammers being exposed?
No, but I plan to make a directory of the related threads as a public service.
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  #118  
Old 05-28-2019, 07:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bnorth View Post
Is anyone making a list of all the scammers being exposed?

I might be movin' to Oregon soon
Just to conserve some cards
Trimming them up
Waxen it down
Sending in a little white box
I can sell through Pwcc
By myself I wouldn't
Have no boss,

Well I just might grow me some bees
But I'd leave the sweet stuff
For somebody else...
but then, on the other hand
I'd Keep the wax N' melt it down
Pour it on the cards N' swish it aroun'

Movin' to Montana soon
Gonna be a card conservation tycoon
(yes I am)
Movin' to Montana soon
Just me and my pygmy pony.
Frank would have loved it. And unlike David's 4 to 1, I figure the odds [of an indictment] be 50-50.
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Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 05-28-2019 at 07:15 AM.
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  #119  
Old 05-28-2019, 07:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth View Post
Frank would have loved it. And unlike David's 4 to 1, I figure the odds [of an indictment] be 50-50.
I am more at 50-1 myself. This has been going on way too long and almost everyone is in on it. The Masto thing scared a few out of the business but the big scammers just got bigger. They(scammers) also learned from that, that almost no one cares.

I honestly think there is 1 guy that could take them all down if he was ever busted. He seems to be connected to all the big scammers but you would have to get by his lawyer first.
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  #120  
Old 05-28-2019, 08:29 AM
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Originally Posted by calvindog View Post
Itís still gone. Why??
You're obviously reading this thread, Bobby. What's the deal?
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  #121  
Old 05-28-2019, 08:30 AM
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Originally Posted by shagrotn77 View Post
You're obviously reading this thread, Bobby. What's the deal?
He's from Hawaii where it's still the middle of the night, let's give him a chance.
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  #122  
Old 05-28-2019, 08:35 AM
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Originally Posted by sallen2556 View Post
and now with the elementary schools getting out for the summer, a whole new batch of graders is likely being hired. Psa, at the very least, is going to have to modify their training for this year's kids.
lol!

Edited to add: In all seriousness though, why don't submitters know the qualifications of a grader? They just blindly submit without knowing anything. If you were going to hire a contractor to do some work at your house, wouldn't you want to know their qualifications? Experience? Makes no sense to me.

Last edited by vintagetoppsguy; 05-28-2019 at 08:50 AM.
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  #123  
Old 05-28-2019, 08:35 AM
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Bobby...if you need some help...I know some people!
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Screen Shot 2019-05-28 at 10.34.49 AM.jpg (18.7 KB, 515 views)
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  #124  
Old 05-28-2019, 08:41 AM
vintagetoppsguy vintagetoppsguy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy View Post
4:1 odds.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth View Post
I figure the odds [of an indictment] be 50-50.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bnorth View Post
I am more at 50-1 myself.
Odds all over the place. What does Vegas say?
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  #125  
Old 05-28-2019, 08:47 AM
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Why not just just have separate price guides for conserved, restored and trimmed cards in addition to the few cards that are original and not altered. Perhaps the last category (original and not altered) would see a price bump as a consequence.

Old school collectors would be happy, Martin would be happy, Brent would be happy. Kumbaya indeed.
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  #126  
Old 05-28-2019, 08:57 AM
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Someone's trimming Lord,
Kumbaya
Altered, not restored,
Kumbaya
For a big reward,
Kumbaya
Oh, Lord
Kumbaya
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  #127  
Old 05-28-2019, 09:28 AM
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A 1952 Berk Ross Mantle was posted on BO early this morning, The amount of cardboard left on the cutting room floor (from the bottom border) is astonishing. Yet it got by PSA again, garnering a grade of 7. How PSA found this card to measure up is astounding. Any novice with a ruler would catch it.

I cannot copy/paste on this device, but perhaps someone here can. They could not confirm this one came from Moser, but it's likely that it did. Just another shameful PWCC offering and PSA "mistake".
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  #128  
Old 05-28-2019, 09:54 AM
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https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=1973
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  #129  
Old 05-28-2019, 09:55 AM
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That is definitely not good for the hobby.
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  #130  
Old 05-28-2019, 10:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by calvindog View Post
That is definitely not good for the hobby.
With this world overpopulation, it's good to make cards smaller. Will delay the need to migrate to Mars by at least ten years.
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  #131  
Old 05-28-2019, 10:33 AM
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That one doesn't make any sense. The left corners were the best. How did that card get a 6, (and then a 7) with the bottom right corner? Man this is depressing.
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  #132  
Old 05-28-2019, 10:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luke View Post
That one doesn't make any sense. The left corners were the best. How did that card get a 6, (and then a 7) with the bottom right corner? Man this is depressing.
Agreed. This isn't just one card. This is a mult-million dollar scam. It is depressing.
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  #133  
Old 05-28-2019, 10:38 AM
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I clicked on the Mantle link and I read this:

Quote:
Although Vintagecardprices.com, as of last night, suspiciously erased all their data on the winners of eBay auctions, I feel safe in asserting that whitman111 was the winning bidder here.
Is this true? Is this website trying to protect these trimmers? If so, I think it's a little too late for that. I hope people took screenshots over the past couple of weeks.

I also agree with Patrick (post #52). We should definitely not ignore the hockey cards. Some of these key vintage rookies sell for crazy amounts of money in higher grade and are definitely targeted by these trimmers. The 1958 Topps Bobby Hull is a good card to start with. The other cards that need to be researched include the following:

- 1951 Parkhurst Gordie Howe
- 1966 Topps Bobby Orr
- 1957 Parkhurst Henri Richard
- 1951 Parkhurst Maurice Richard
- 1955 Parkhurst Jacques Plante
- 1953 Parkhurst Jean Beliveau

Where on earth are all these high-grade examples coming from? And are they legit?
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Last edited by samosa4u; 05-28-2019 at 10:43 AM.
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  #134  
Old 05-28-2019, 10:45 AM
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Good morning....

That is correct as someone stated I do live in Hawaii, Kauai to be specific..

To answer your questions about the buyers information, yesterday afternoon. Ebay shut off our API feed. In order for us to get it restored again we needed to remove the buyers information listed on our site.

We rely on that feed for everything we do and can't function without it. We are in good standing with them. We do not scrap data and can not operate without that feed.

Hope this answers your questions.
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  #135  
Old 05-28-2019, 10:45 AM
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n/m

Last edited by tribefan; 05-28-2019 at 10:46 AM.
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  #136  
Old 05-28-2019, 10:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbyVCP View Post
To answer your questions about the buyers information, yesterday afternoon. Ebay shut off our API feed. In order for us to get it restored again we needed to remove the buyers information listed on our site.

We rely on that feed for everything we do and can't function without it. We are in good standing with them. We do not scrap data and can not operate without that feed.
They asked you to remove the buyers' info?
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  #137  
Old 05-28-2019, 10:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbyVCP View Post
Good morning....

That is correct as someone stated I do live in Hawaii, Kauai to be specific..

To answer your questions about the buyers information, yesterday afternoon. Ebay shut off our API feed. In order for us to get it restored again we needed to remove the buyers information listed on our site.

We rely on that feed for everything we do and can't function without it. We are in good standing with them. We do not scrap data and can not operate without that feed.

Hope this answers your questions.
Bobby did they give a reason?
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Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 05-28-2019 at 10:51 AM.
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  #138  
Old 05-28-2019, 10:52 AM
tschock tschock is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by calvindog View Post
They asked you to remove the buyers' info?
On behalf of a large seller's request, perhaps?

I'm not big on conspiracy theories, but almost too much in the timing to be a coincidence.
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Old 05-28-2019, 10:54 AM
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Hmmmm.... PWCC couldn't possibly behind this, right?
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Old 05-28-2019, 10:57 AM
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Quote:
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Hmmmm.... PWCC couldn't possibly behind this, right?
They most definitely can be. I'm literally sick to my stomach now.
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Old 05-28-2019, 11:05 AM
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Originally Posted by bobbyw8469 View Post
They most definitely can be. I'm literally sick to my stomach now.
Since Bobby's been publishing that data for years, and it's only coded identities, the coincidence in timing is too much to be believed.
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Old 05-28-2019, 11:16 AM
sportscardtheory sportscardtheory is offline
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'Sorry guys. ebay randomly forced me, during a crapstorm of hobby fraud being outed, to stop publicizing important information for no reason whatsoever.'

Sure.
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Old 05-28-2019, 11:24 AM
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On the other forum guys are speculating ebay is not involved, that PWCC is a major sponsor of VCP and the pressure came directly from them.
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Old 05-28-2019, 11:25 AM
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What a great partnership between PSA, PWCC and EBay.
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Old 05-28-2019, 11:35 AM
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Quote:
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On the other forum guys are speculating ebay is not involved, that PWCC is a major sponsor of VCP and the pressure came directly from them.
I'd like to think that Bobby wasn't lying, but when your livelihood is at stake... Either way it puts him in a shitty position.
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  #146  
Old 05-28-2019, 11:40 AM
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This is getting ridiculous. So anyone who brent advertises with is too reliant on his advertising $$$ís to do whats right here???
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Old 05-28-2019, 11:42 AM
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Quote:
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What a great partnership between PSA, PWCC and EBay.
You forgot the card doctors as well....everyone is enjoying the fruits of their labors.
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  #148  
Old 05-28-2019, 11:55 AM
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Bobby?

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showth...1#post14711338

If eBay really asked you to do this over Memorial Day weekend, that would seem quite interesting. As a public company they have significant responsibility to their shareholders and if they are doing anything that could possibly be viewed as a cover up for one of their sellers that seem to be in the midst of a scam, then your statement certainly has me concerned and will make the appropriate analyst coverage aware on Wall St.

Brian Longley
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Old 05-28-2019, 12:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ullmandds View Post
This is getting ridiculous. So anyone who brent advertises with is too reliant on his advertising $$$ís to do whats right here???
Brent is doing good things for the hobby.
Brent is doing good things for the hobby.
Brent is doing good things for the hobby.
Brent is doing good things for the hobby.
Brent is doing good things for the hobby.
Brent is doing good things for the hobby.
Brent is doing good things for the hobby.
Brent is doing good things for the hobby.
Brent is doing good things for the hobby.
Brent is doing good things for the hobby.
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  #150  
Old 05-28-2019, 12:06 PM
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For those, like myself, wanting to bring these issues to the attention of the FBI, following is the link to the Internet Crime Complaint Center

https://www.ic3.gov/default.aspx


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