1910 Punch Cobb with backing - New Discovery??

[e107collector]

I was actually waiting to see if anyone else posted any other information about this card.

I was at the Philly Show this past Saturday, and I overheard these two gentlemen saying they have a Punch Cobb with the backing. I never saw this card before in person, but remembered that this issue is super rare.

They said it was just graded and would be offered for sale privately only. I asked to see it, but they only showed me a picture of it on their IPad, and hid the serial number. I snapped a pic with my phone. Looks like a PSA holder. Any thoughts??

[Cubanball]

Wow, the Cobb punch card is amazing. Finding punch cards with backing is so rare. I have only seen a handful. Great job in at least getting a picture of it.

[Hankphenom]

Has this been authenticated by the CIA?

[Schlesinj]

WOW! I only overheard people talking about refractors. Thanks for posting.

[ElCabron]

Looks super fake to me.

[e107collector]

The conversation only came up when I was looking at a few T206 Cobb greens and reds.

The guy asked if I liked Cobb and said he and his business partner had a really rare card of him.

I just thought it was weird that if you were looking to sell it, why only show people an IPad picture of it.

Just seems like a weird issue to try and fake, since it’s so rare.

To some of the auction house reps that were in attendance, did this card come up in conversation or make an appearance at all?

[Leon]

Originally Posted by ElCabron

Looks super fake to me.

It probably looks like that in person
.

[MuncieNolePAZ]

PSA only has 1 Punch Cobb listed in the Pop report and that is definitely not it.

Chad

[Moonlight Graham]

Looks like the bottom of the slab has a notch cut in it.

Joe

[parkplace33]

I think it is a non psa slab.

[calvindog]

If anyone had one of these and wanted to sell it, he would do all that he could to let the entire hobby know, not sell it in secret, with the only image released a blurry pic without the flip proving its legitimacy.

[doug.goodman]

Originally Posted by calvindog

If anyone had one of these and wanted to sell it, he would do all that he could to let the entire hobby know, not sell it in secret, with the only image released a blurry pic without the flip proving its legitimacy.

Yep, my thoughts exactly.

Follow us into this alley, and bring cash...

[Leon]

Lastly, my hunch is, if we track down the only known one (if that is correct) I would wager we might find some of the tiny, totally specific flaws on this card as the one known...in other words, a poor copy. Just a guess though. Maybe better scans come forth and I am wrong?

[boneheadandrube]

Aren't the Punch cards much smaller than that? It seems to fill out a graded holder of some kind...

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by boneheadandrube

Aren't the Punch cards much smaller than that? It seems to fill out a graded holder of some kind...

Yes, they are smaller.

[e107collector]

If anyone knows, when it indicates “backing”, does that refer to the border attached, or is there actually a print advertisement on the back of the card?

[Roland 49]

All the Punch cards inside the cigarette box came glued to that cardboard, and in most cases they were detached and the card was glued to the album, many appeared loose because to have the album you had to go look for it at the Punch cigar factory, very few have been found attached to the original cardboard, in the case of this Ty Cobb, if someone shows me that photo and asks me for $5 dollars, I will not buy it, because in that photo the card cannot be seen well due to to the nylon that covers it, and its state of conservation cannot be seen. When you see the cardboard, you can see a great state of deterioration, therefore the card must also have deterioration, it could be an original card that was recently glued to that cardboard, after remove the one that was originally pasted, it may be a photocopy of Ty Cobb, which they pasted, that is, a fake, I have had the original in my hands and I scanned them and there is something strange in the background of

[MuncieNolePAZ]

Originally Posted by e107collector

If anyone knows, when it indicates “backing”, does that refer to the border attached, or is there actually a print advertisement on the back of the card?

There is a Punch advertisement on the back. I have only seen one.

Chad

[Roland 49]

Now I continue my previous comment, the yellow color that appears at the bottom as in the uniform does not appear on any Punch card, which means that it seems that this card was made with some computer program, I consider that it is a fake pasted on the original cardboard, perhaps they glued it on top of another one or they could have removed the original and glued this one, I repeat that in order to evaluate it you...

[JollyElm]

Hopefully, I'm not alone, but I know nothing about this card, this set and really have no clue what I'm looking at or what the issue is.

Is the rectangular Cobb picture supposedly attached to the scribbly black, handcut background card??
Because the Cobb portion obviously sits in a very visible penny sleeve by itself, right?? It's merely sitting atop whatever the background thing is, and both are inside of a graded card sleeve.

So, if anyone can explain what I'm missing, it would be appreciated.

IMG_2732B.jpg

[Cubanball]

The 1910 Punch set was produced in Cuba to commemorate the games pitting the Detroit Tigers and the Philadelphia Athletics against the Cuban Habana and Almendares teams. There are 48 cards known with 12 cards for the Detroit Tigers. The cards appear to be small photographic images crudely cut and pasted on a cardboard background. As Rolando explained above most of the cards were removed from the cardboard backing. Finding Punch cards still attached to there cardboard backing is very rare. Most graded examples are missing the backing and receive an Authentic grade. I have attached examples of a card with its backing, the reverse of the backing, a Ty Cobb card without its backing and a graded card to show the size of the cards in a standard SGC slab.

[JollyElm]

Originally Posted by Cubanball

The 1910 Punch set was produced in Cuba to commemorate the games pitting the Detroit Tigers and the Philadelphia Athletics against the Cuban Habana and Almendares teams. There are 48 cards known with 12 cards for the Detroit Tigers. The cards appear to be small photographic images crudely cut and pasted on a cardboard background. As Rolando explained above most of the cards were removed from the cardboard backing. Finding Punch cards still attached to there cardboard backing is very rare. Most graded examples are missing the backing and receive an Authentic grade. I have attached examples of a card with its backing, the reverse of the backing, a Ty Cobb card without its backing and a graded card to show the size of the cards in a standard SGC slab.

Appreciate your overall explanation, thank you. But with regard to the card being discussed in this thread, isn't the Cobb part in a penny sleeve on top of the cardboard backing? Doesn't look like an optical illusion, it looks like plastic, no?

[Cubanball]

I do not think the Cobb card in the picture is in a penny sleeve. Based on the initial description, the photo we see was taken using a phone from a photo on an iPad. This may have caused some distortions in color and reflections we see. I would need to see the card personally to give any kind of verdict on it's authenticity. But I agree with Rolando that going by this photo alone the card looks very suspicious.

[e107collector]

Originally Posted by Cubanball

I do not think the Cobb card in the picture is in a penny sleeve. Based on the initial description, the photo we see was taken using a phone from a photo on an iPad. This may have caused some distortions in color and reflections we see. I would need to see the card personally to give any kind of verdict on it's authenticity. But I agree with Rolando that going by this photo alone the card looks very suspicious.

When I first saw the photo, and the gentleman said it was just graded, it looked like the slab was in a graded card sleeve in the picture. I just assumed based on what I could see, it was in a PSA slab. I dont think it was in a Beckett holder, but I guess it’s possible. The Cobb in my photo, does appear bigger in size than the one posted a few posts above.

[Roland 49]

On the right edge of the card near the top it looks like a part of another card, maybe it was a factory cut but it may be part of a card under Ty Cobb, on the right edge you see something similar from top to bottom half, to give an answer I have to have it in my hands, see its thickness and its printing, to know if it is original, although I don't believe it.

[JollyElm]

I highlighted what I'm talking about in see-through red...

cobbpennysleeve.jpg

[Casey2296]

Originally Posted by JollyElm

I highlighted what I'm talking about in see-through red...

Attachment 635980

I would agree, definitely some kind of transition going on there, especially in the lower right corner.

[swarmee]

I think it's an optical illusion, because there is the sleeve that the slab is in, plus the plastic of the slab, plus the possibility of an internal "baggie" inside the slab, whether it's a PSA slab or a BGS one. At first I thought I was seeing through the card, but I realize that's the poorly cut photograph that was pasted to the backing board.

I am not saying anything about the authenticity of the card, just the illusion that the Cobb piece is inside a sleeve and then pasted (or situated on top of) a backing board.

[Hankphenom]

Why would they hide the PSA part of the slab? I don't get it. By the way, anybody know who came up with the term "slab?" Whoever it was, I'm guessing they weren't a fan.

[brianp-beme]

Originally Posted by Hankphenom

By the way, anybody know who came up with the term "slab?" Whoever it was, I'm guessing they weren't a fan.

Unless they were also a fan of concrete slabs and/or slabs of meat.

Brian

[Fred]

Originally Posted by e107collector

Looks like a PSA holder. Any thoughts??

Pro?



From Hank -
Why would they hide the PSA part of the slab? I don't get it. By the way, anybody know who came up with the term "slab?" Whoever it was, I'm guessing they weren't a fan.

Is it possible the term came from the coin collectors after grading was introduced to that hobby? Agreed, it doesn't sound like an endearing term.

[aljurgela]

And it does not have the original back... Here is a Punch card with a back (though the backs have varying degrees of size)...

[e107collector]

Originally Posted by aljurgela

And it does not have the original back... Here is a Punch card with a back (though the backs have varying degrees of size)...

Al,

Just curious, but does that Luis Padron card you have pictured, have the same "Punch" advertising back that Cubanball posted above?

Thanks.

[aljurgela]

One this about the Punch cards is the AMAZING photography (and in particular the clarity of the images on a photographic paper)...

Here is my current progress on the set on the PSA side:

https://www.psacard.com/psasetregist...shedset/403520

The above Cobb looks like a copy to me given my experience with these cards.

[aljurgela]

Originally Posted by e107collector

Al,

Just curious, but does that Luis Padron card you have pictured, have the same "Punch" advertising back that Cubanball posted above?

Thanks.

Here are the ones that I have....

[e107collector]

Al,

Kudos to you for putting that collection together as much as you did already. It's so hard when most the the cards only have an example or two known to exist.



If PSA did indeed grade this card, I would have to think it would have been shown on their population registry now, correct?

If it was a lower tier grading company, I would hope it's not a "Frankencard" that made it's way into a slab.

[aljurgela]

Originally Posted by e107collector

Al,

Kudos to you for putting that collection together as much as you did already. It's so hard when most the the cards only have an example or two known to exist.



If PSA did indeed grade this card, I would have to think it would have been shown on their population registry now, correct?

If it was a lower tier grading company, I would hope it's not a "Frakencard" that made it's way into a slab.

Has been tough for sure and just missed adding a couple this weekend in Al's LOTG auctions (I hate that double overtime closing method that makes me lose items as 3AM)... anyway... still making progress... maybe I will finish in the next couple of decades... definitely a game of patience ... both fun and frustrating at different times... but I just LOVE this set

[MuncieNolePAZ]

Originally Posted by aljurgela

One this about the Punch cards is the AMAZING photography (and in particular the clarity of the images on a photographic paper)...

Here is my current progress on the set on the PSA side:

https://www.psacard.com/psasetregist...shedset/403520

The above Cobb looks like a copy to me given my experience with these cards.

I was hoping you would join this thread Al.

Chad

[sb1]

it's fairly obvious that the fake card has used the image from Al's card and printed/glued it on the backing, which is also most likely a copy.