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  #1  
Old 03-19-2010, 06:41 PM
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ullmandds ullmandds is offline
pete ullman
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Default Authentic/Altered vs Authentic/Beaten Cards

All of this altered talk got me thinking about a card I have...that is so worn that it's length is dramatically compromised. I'd bet it would not grade numerically. Obviously not all authentic cards are created equal...but how does everyone feel about cards beaten to authenticity vs cards purposely altered? Is one more desirable than the other?
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Old 03-19-2010, 06:47 PM
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Natural wear is much better than artificial alterations.
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  #3  
Old 03-19-2010, 06:49 PM
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I don't feel there should be a beaten to authenticity-if it's only compromise is that it's worn out and beaten,it should just grade "poor".

If it's been trimmed,had color added/removed,corners worked on,etc.,etc.,then it gets the big "A"..............
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Old 03-19-2010, 06:55 PM
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pete ullman
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clayton...i don't think there should be either...but this card won't meet the size tolerances so it most likely would grade A...a scarlet A!
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Old 03-19-2010, 07:21 PM
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Peter,
I agree with you. It's somewhat like a Fleischman grading an "A" because the tab that was designed for the express purpose of being cut off, is cut off. I think you could make the case that is "natural" wear. I think there is a decent chance your Wagner might get a number grade.
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Old 03-19-2010, 07:23 PM
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Well Peter,I guess if you had other submissions,to SGC for instance,you could send that with them-I think they give you the option not to encapsulate it if they are going to give it the "A".

I would give it a shot-it doesn't look all that bad to me.
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Old 03-19-2010, 07:31 PM
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The main concern I see to the OPs theory, is this:

If it were OK for a "beaten" card to be numerically graded, while an "altered" card could not, then what would keep a person from taking an "A" card (trimmed for these purposes), and beating it to wear down the trimmed edge, thereby removing all indications of the trimming, in order for it to get a numerical grade?

Also, would this even be a problem?


Steve

Last edited by Steve D; 03-19-2010 at 07:35 PM.
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Old 03-19-2010, 07:35 PM
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pete ullman
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now what do you think?
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Old 03-19-2010, 07:54 PM
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the e90-2s vary in size, some wagners were factory cut really short...even some with the name half cropped off. i wouldn't call that wagner a beater either...and yes i would take this one over VG trimmed.
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Old 03-19-2010, 07:58 PM
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chad...i did not know that...maybe it would grade?
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  #11  
Old 03-19-2010, 08:57 PM
whycough whycough is offline
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Default wagner

maybe it wouldn't grade because it can't measure normal?
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Old 03-19-2010, 09:14 PM
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In my experiences, cards that are worn like that tend to grade numerically. I have seen cards from various issues with heavy wear all around get numerical grades. Also, if the wagner is known to be factory cut short, I would think your chances are good that it will grade.

Either way, it's a great card.

Steve
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Old 03-19-2010, 09:19 PM
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Id be happy with either card myself...

But whatever you choose, the "honus" is on you!
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Old 03-20-2010, 10:17 PM
JamesGallo JamesGallo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve D View Post
The main concern I see to the OPs theory, is this:

If it were OK for a "beaten" card to be numerically graded, while an "altered" card could not, then what would keep a person from taking an "A" card (trimmed for these purposes), and beating it to wear down the trimmed edge, thereby removing all indications of the trimming, in order for it to get a numerical grade?

Also, would this even be a problem?


Steve
This is VERY interesting and I am not sure I know the answer beyond that if you took a trimmed card and beat it up so much that the trimming would be hard to detect then I think you would have done so much damage to the card that it wouldn't be worth trying to even get the numerical grade.

The Wagner seems to have natural wear and does not look like it was trimmed. That along with the known issues on the card would lead me to believe the card would grade. I have had a few cards that SGC has felt weren't trimmed but the wear to the edge was so strong that it did not meet the minimum standards, therefore they are in authentic holders, but not labeled as trimmed.

James G
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