Rick Probstein interviews Bill Mastro

[Fred]

I've bid in Probstein auctions and won and never felt there was shill bidding. Like many, I've read about the accusations of impropriety in regard tp Probstein but I have no opinion on it because I don't have access to any evidence. If the stories are true then that's a shame.

I found the statement indicating (see around 23:30) "What I did was probably wrong" as a bit strange to hear but if that's how he feels, then it gives a little insight to his mindset. He did however say what he did was wrong at about the 25 minute mark so there's that. Mastro comments a little about the reason he went to prison for a year and a half. It was interesting to hear his insight to the wrong doing, but there was so much more to this interview that makes it worth listening to.

Mastro seems very genuine in the interview. What's nice about this interview is that it wasn't scripted, it was down to earth hobby talk from the early days of the hobby.

Definitely worth the time, even if you don't like either Probstein and/or Mastro.

I'd take the time to listen to another interview if they do another. It would be cool to see specific topics covered.

Interviews like this are good because they will be around many years from now when a lot of us are gone and new blood is in the hobby (if it survives that long).

[Peter_Spaeth]

I have heard that Bill refused to tell what he knew about other hobby players. Imagine if he had felt differently.

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by Eric72

Exchanging words with a snowman has entertainment value at the moment.

My favorite Bo Belinsky quote: "Never snow a snowman."

[samosa4u]

Thanks for uploading this.

Yeah, it was a bit annoying how Prob kept interrupting him, however, this wasn't some scripted interview or anything like that. It was a conversation between two card guys.

And like many of you on here said, Mastro paid his debt to society. Going to Federal prison is not a walk in the park. Who knows what he really went through while in there.

So, Mastro trimmed the Wagner and sold it for $110,000 USD? What about guys who have been trimming cards for ten or twenty-plus years and have made millions? What about the fraud going on in the other auction houses? Mastro gets locked up and all those other guys get to sit at home and count their money - makes sense.

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by Eric72

LOL

The first one was mine, not the second. Chronologically:

1. I win auction
2. I pay
3. They don't ship
4. They relist

Timeline make sense?

You mentored above that Probstein's initial response to you was that it was dual listed due to an "ebay glitch". Did you check to see if there were in fact 2 listings if this card at that time? This is the "first" listing I was referring to.

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Whatever your facts, an innocent explanation can be constructed. Why waste your time.

Yes, I generally subscribe to Hanlon's razor - "Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by incompetence".

[Peter_Spaeth]

Hanlon would have said no such thing if he knew the sportscards industry.

[Eric72]

Originally Posted by Snowman

You mentored above that Probstein's initial response to you was that it was dual listed due to an "ebay glitch". Did you check to see if there were in fact 2 listings if this card at that time? This is the "first" listing I was referring to.

Yes, I checked multiple times. The first time was when researching comparable sales.

The card had sold roughly 3 months prior. There were no other listings (for that card with that cert #) on eBay between then and my winning bid.

That is why their response, which I copied-and-pasted in quotes earlier, stood out to me.

[Collectorsince62]

The interview was like listening to Pete Rose. A brash personality who knows a lot about the history and inner workings of his industry, a very tarnished reputation after being on top of his world, semi-repentant about his deceit, simultaneously embraced and hated . . . but interesting as hell.

[CTDean]

Originally Posted by Hxcmilkshake

"Hidden reserves" is something new I learned today.



Sent from my SM-G981U using Tapatalk

I've bought and sold at auctions for the last 50 years and the hidden reserve has always been around for the quality catalog auctions. Some catalogs will explain the hidden reserve in the written "Auction Terms". The auction lot should have a specified high-low estimate with the listing, and the hidden reserve can't exceed the low estimate.

I dropped out of the East Coast card show circuit by 1984 so I only have good memories of Bill Mastro. Bill was the last one on the phone for my SCD phone auctions that ended at midnight and always a easy to deal with and talk to at card shows. Bill made mistakes and he paid the price so he not getting a free pass. I wish Bill the best of luck going forward.

Peck Dean

[mrreality68]

Originally Posted by Collectorsince62

The interview was like listening to Pete Rose. A brash personality who knows a lot about the history and inner workings of his industry, a very tarnished reputation after being on top of his world, semi-repentant about his deceit, simultaneously embraced and hated . . . but interesting as hell.

That is actually a real good description and a really good comparison about the way he came across.

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by Collectorsince62

The interview was like listening to Pete Rose. A brash personality who knows a lot about the history and inner workings of his industry, a very tarnished reputation after being on top of his world, semi-repentant about his deceit, simultaneously embraced and hated . . . but interesting as hell.

That's a good analogy, as Mastro is certainly a polarizing figure. I did enjoy hearing Mastro's thoughts (like him or not). My name appeared on the "You've been shilled List" when it was released... and yes it was a real downer. So while I'm certainly not a fan of Mastro or what he did, I was still quite interested to hear the story from his perspective.

Pete Rose (even at his advanced age) probably knows as much about baseball as anyone alive today. I would've put Don Zimmer in that category before he passed, as well. The hobby equivalent is undeniably Mastro. Like Rose, he is still passionate about the hobby and expresses a moderate degree of remorse. Whether it's remorse over what he did or just at getting caught is open to interpretation. Still, some of my best pieces came from the early days of Mastro Auctions (dating back to Mastro & Steinbach).

I agree that Probstein should stick to his "day job", as his interviewing skills were awful, to the point of maddening. Just as Mastro would hit on an interesting topic, Probstein would interrupt him or change course. Just let him speak, for Christ's sake. A good interviewer lets the person complete their thoughts and then bases the follow-up question(s) on what's been revealed (assuming the interviewer possesses good listening skills). Johnny Carson was the master of this, and even Leno was far superior to the current Late Night crop.

Anyway, Mastro's stories of the early days were engaging. I would've liked to hear more about his federal prison experience and how he built his auction house into the empire it was back in the day. Sounded like a follow-up interview might be in the works.

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by perezfan

A good interviewer lets the person complete their thoughts and then bases the follow-up question(s) on what's been revealed (assuming the interviewer possesses good listening skills). Johnny Carson was the master of this, and even Leno was far superior to the current Late Night crop.

Howard Stern might be the best interviewer and makes the very most of the hour or so he has with his guests.

Did not watch the Mastro interview yet so I cannot comment.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Christiana Amanpour.

[Yoda]

I have had a 30 year relationship with Lew Lipset. Yes, he could be a curmudgeon at times and his grading standards were out-of-step with TPG'ers. But what a fountainhead of baseball knowledge and collectibles. His books about 19th century, T & E cards are classics and sit in my library. His auctions, although rudimentary by today's standards, always had great material and were scrupulously run. He belongs in that special pantheon of early pioneers, like Nagy and others, who brought so much to the hobby we love.

[Ricky]

Originally Posted by Yoda

I have had a 30 year relationship with Lew Lipset. Yes, he could be a curmudgeon at times and his grading standards were out-of-step with TPG'ers. But what a fountainhead of baseball knowledge and collectibles. His books about 19th century, T & E cards are classics and sit in my library. His auctions, although rudimentary by today's standards, always had great material and were scrupulously run. He belongs in that special pantheon of early pioneers, like Nagy and others, who brought so much to the hobby we love.

Agree about Lew, John. Purchased some cards from him back in the day and he always had interesting material. Read his encyclopedias and Old Judge publications religiously. Is he still active in the hobby?

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by Yoda

I have had a 30 year relationship with Lew Lipset. Yes, he could be a curmudgeon at times and his grading standards were out-of-step with TPG'ers. But what a fountainhead of baseball knowledge and collectibles. His books about 19th century, T & E cards are classics and sit in my library. His auctions, although rudimentary by today's standards, always had great material and were scrupulously run. He belongs in that special pantheon of early pioneers, like Nagy and others, who brought so much to the hobby we love.

So that gives him an excuse to treat people like crap. Got it.

[molenick]

Is this viewable other than on Instagram (says the old guy without an Instagram account)?

[CTDean]

Originally Posted by molenick

Is this viewable other than on Instagram (says the old guy without an Instagram account)?

I'm an old guy without an Instagram account and I just clicked the link in the first post and watched the interview.

[molenick]

Thanks. When I clicked on it the first time it wanted me to log in....but when I just clicked on it now, it went right to the interview.

[GaryPassamonte]

Originally Posted by molenick

Is this viewable other than on Instagram (says the old guy without an Instagram account)?

Michael- I don't have an Instagram account either, but was able to watch anyway.

[molenick]

I found it very interesting (after the first two minutes of looking at an office ceiling). I recall the days when Lifson and Mastro sold cards out of a motel room at Willow Grove shows in the mid-to-late 1980s. A friend and I used to go to their room and look through plastic sheets (or was it boxes?) of T206s picking out ones we needed for our sets (as I recall, nice condition commons were $20-$25...this was well after the days of the $0.15 T206). I never cared about the backs, I was just looking to fill in gaps in my sheets back home. If anything, I didn't want a rare back because that was more expensive. I don't remember them ever setting up at the show itself, but I could be mistaken about that.

Every now and then Rob would show me something more exotic, and somehow I would go from not knowing what I was looking at to buying something I had never seen before that day. He was a very good salesman (I am not saying that in a negative way). I think he knew that the friendly sales method worked better on me than Bill's sometimes more direct approach.

[Hankphenom]

Originally Posted by perezfan

I agree that Probstein should stick to his "day job", as his interviewing skills were awful, to the point of maddening. Just as Mastro would hit on an interesting topic, Probstein would interrupt him or change course. Just let him speak, for Christ's sake. A good interviewer lets the person complete their thoughts and then bases the follow-up question(s) on what's been revealed (assuming the interviewer possesses good listening skills). Johnny Carson was the master of this, and even Leno was far superior to the current Late Night crop.

That's the secret sauce in the baseball oral history classic, "The Glory of Their Times." Having listened to all of Ritter's original interview tapes, his patience with the players is what stands out as the key to the great stories he got out of them. I sometimes wondered if something had happened as the seconds rolled by while Larry sat silently to allow his subject to travel back in time in his mind. No attempt to hurry them, prod them for specifics, show off his knowledge of their careers, none of that. Just silence. Then, after what seemed like minutes sometimes, when the player was satisfied that his memory had filled in enough of the detail from many decades long past, he would launch into one of the amazing stories that make the book so magical. If a course in "Interviewing for Oral History" was ever taught, one of the textbooks should be Ritter and GOTT. You can hear the process at work on the audio set, even with a lot of editing for time and flow.

[egri]

Originally Posted by perezfan

I agree that Probstein should stick to his "day job", as his interviewing skills were awful, to the point of maddening. Just as Mastro would hit on an interesting topic, Probstein would interrupt him or change course. Just let him speak, for Christ's sake. A good interviewer lets the person complete their thoughts and then bases the follow-up question(s) on what's been revealed (assuming the interviewer possesses good listening skills). Johnny Carson was the master of this, and even Leno was far superior to the current Late Night crop.

I once listened to an interview with a Civil War veteran that was the same way. The veteran had been at Pickett's Charge, and it sounded like he was about to go into a story about that day, when the interviewer cut him off with a question about something completely unrelated.

[lumberjack]

There can be a short audio delay with Face Time. It makes for clumsy dialogue, but it's not anybody's fault that people are stepping on each other's lines. Somebody correct me if I am wrong.
lumberjack

[Fred]

Originally Posted by egri

I once listened to an interview with a Civil War veteran that was the same way. The veteran had been at Pickett's Charge, and it sounded like he was about to go into a story about that day, when the interviewer cut him off with a question about something completely unrelated.

Scott, I'm gonna bite - did the CW veteran ever get back to the story about Pickett's Charge? If not, bummer... When people like that get on a roll, a good interviewer would just let them keep going.

I bet Mastro could go on for hours. I'd listen but I would also not forget. Did he pay his debt to society? Maybe, but I'm going to bet he isn't "whole" with a lot of hobby community.

[lumberjack]

Lawrence Ritter said he had to keep his subjects focused. He had a woman friend who was helping, running the tape recorder or something, and he had to ban her from the interviews as she would go off subject and distract the old guys. He said he wasn't happy about it, but it was necessary.

As I understand it, he hired someone to make transcripts of the interviews and they simply went on and on.

Riter was, I guess, pretty good at editing the stories down.

Henry Thomas can, perhaps, add to that.
lumberjack

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by lumberjack

There can be a short audio delay with Face Time. It makes for clumsy dialogue, but it's not anybody's fault that people are stepping on each other's lines. Somebody correct me if I am wrong.
lumberjack

I was just about to post this. While, as a viewer, it was pretty annoying to listen to, you could tell that he recorded it from his cell phone. They were probably having audio lag issues. I remember listening to a podcast between Joe Rogan and Peter Schiff that was the same way. It was super annoying to listen to and Joe later said that it was because of audio issues with whatever they were using to do the recording at the time.

[egri]

Originally Posted by Fred

Scott, I'm gonna bite - did the CW veteran ever get back to the story about Pickett's Charge? If not, bummer... When people like that get on a roll, a good interviewer would just let them keep going.

It's been several years since I listened to it, but I don't remember him going back to the story. I was disappointed too.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by lumberjack

There can be a short audio delay with Face Time. It makes for clumsy dialogue, but it's not anybody's fault that people are stepping on each other's lines. Somebody correct me if I am wrong.
lumberjack

I thought this too, but he definitely didn't adjust well to the issue. Mastro was on the cusp of going into detail about something I actually wanted to hear him talk about and they trampled each other 2 or 3 times, and the thread of what he was going to say was lost. I've done enough Zoom meetings to know it's tough not to trample each other, but it can be learned. I'd give Rick a pass though. I don't think he was intentionally cutting Mastro off, being a dick, or a big shot or anything like that. It was just inelegant in execution.

[Hankphenom]

Originally Posted by lumberjack

Lawrence Ritter said he had to keep his subjects focused. He had a woman friend who was helping, running the tape recorder or something, and he had to ban her from the interviews as she would go off subject and distract the old guys. He said he wasn't happy about it, but it was necessary. As I understand it, he hired someone to make transcripts of the interviews and they simply went on and on. Riter was, I guess, pretty good at editing the stories down.Henry Thomas can, perhaps, add to that.
lumberjack

I would agree with most of this. Larry's girlfriend, Barbara, who was allowed to participate in several of the interviews, was everything you didn't want in a questioner: full of herself, asking inane questions, obsequiously flirting with the subjects, etc. You can hear all that in the Goose Goslin segment of the audio set, but the Goose just rolls over her, he's got his story to tell and he's going to tell it, and it turns out great. And yes, the freedom and time Ritter gave his subjects could also work against him, and some of the interviews ramble on without producing much of interest. Sometimes the interviewees themselves just weren't very good no matter how much editing was brought to bear, and those were an easy choice to leave off the set. It was Larry's son, Stevie, then in his mid-teens, who handled the tape recorder, incidentally.

[clydepepper]

An A-Hole interviewing a crook...pass.

.

[here2havefun]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

It's all good. I thought "Man if there's one guy in the hobby you can take a potshot at, it's Mastro." Apparently not. I'm trying like hell to become an adult before I turn 50. Do okay a decent percentage of the time.

Yeah the backlash you got in this thread is weird. Mastro paid his debt in the eyes of the law, but that doesn't mean The Hobby (as a whole) has an obligation to welcome him back with open arms.

[Johnny630]

A long time collector from back in the 60’s said he liked Video but Doubts Even in the late 60s early 70s that a T206 Ty Cobb was a only quarter.

[Jersey City Giants]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

Lew Lipset is "old school". I once bought several "Near Mint" cards from him trhough his auction on his website. At BEST, they were "Very Good". When I told him the issue with his grading, I was promptly blocked. I was later told by someone else to give him a "pass" because he was a hobby legend. If a hobby legend is that bad at grading cards, I want nothing to do with him.

I remember my father and I buying an Cobb batt off shoulder in the 80s from one of his ads that was graded "Ex". It had more than one crease in it. He overgraded his stuff for sure. We returned the card for a refund but in retrospect a card that would have graded a 2 would still have been worth way more than whatever we paid for it back then LOL.

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

Originally Posted by Hankphenom

Sometimes the interviewees themselves just weren't very good no matter how much editing was brought to bear, and those were an easy choice to leave off the set.

Gibby didn't like that you omitted eight hours of Gibby!

Originally Posted by Hankphenom

It was Larry's son, Stevie, then in his mid-teens, who handled the tape recorder, incidentally.

"Tell us more!"

[Hankphenom]

Originally Posted by BillyCox3

Gibby didn't like that you omitted eight hours of Gibby!
"Tell us more!"

What about?
Gibby was "too much Gibby!"

[CTDean]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

A long time collector from back in the 60’s said he liked Video but Doubts Even in the late 60s early 70s that a T206 Ty Cobb was a only quarter.

In 1979 I was offered 225 T205's, T206's, and T207's for $200. The lot had 5 Cobbs and other Hall of Famers. I bought them and the seller thru in 5 empty Piedmont boxes that some of the cards were stored in. No rare backs in the lot. About that same time a long time collector friend of mine "Crab" Foxwell, Cambridge, MD was selling common T206's for $1 each (less in quantity) and HOF'ers for $12 each. Cobb was more. Not saying you could get a Cobb for $.25, but cards were cheap until the first Becket came out.

[Yoda]

Originally Posted by Ricky

Agree about Lew, John. Purchased some cards from him back in the day and he always had interesting material. Read his encyclopedias and Old Judge publications religiously. Is he still active in the hobby?

Rich, I have sort of lost touch with Lew. As you probably know, he and Marsha finally sold their house in AZ and moved back to NJ a few years ago. I haven't heard much lately.
I remember well when they would come down to the Jersey shore, when I lived there, looking for a consignment. Afterward, we always had lunch and he would fill me in on hobby gossip. Interestingly, at least to me, he mentioned he never had a problem with Alan Rosen, and I think he quietly liked Alan and the publicity he brought to the hobby.

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

Originally Posted by Hankphenom

What about?
Gibby was "too much Gibby!"

"Tell us more" was Stevie's go-to line to get the players to expand on a subject!

[Hankphenom]

Originally Posted by BillyCox3

"Tell us more" was Stevie's go-to line to get the players to expand on a subject!

That was Barbara's line, usually preceded by a sexy, "Ooooh," as in "Ooooh, let's hear more about that!" or some such. But it's usually intrusive, interrupting the player's story or train of thought, and doesn't help at all. Steve was very quiet and shy, as you can tell when the Goose turns the questioning on him briefly. His job was to operate the reel-to-reel recorder, and he seems to have handled that expertly.

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

Oh, really? I swore that was the voice of a youngish, teenaged boy. I've been under a false impression all these years. Wow. Thanks for the clarification.

[chriskim]

Originally Posted by JayZim13

Mastro and Lifson actually bought the Wagner in 1985.
He kept quoting 1996. It overall was an interesting interview

..... sometimes... I feel like people shouldn't mention Mastro and Lifson at the same time. just my 2 cents..

[Jeffrompa]

Originally Posted by clydepepper

An A-Hole interviewing a crook...pass.

.

I wouldn’t listen to this two if you paid me .

[drcy]

Whatever people think of him (them) and the accuracy of what he said, it was an interesting and entertaining interview.

Amongst many interesting stories of early collecting and the early hobby, he talks directly about the Gretzky T206 Wagner (It came with many T206s irregularly cut from a sheet or sheets and, after purchasing the lot for $25,000, he trimmed the oversized Wagner) and the nature of the wronging/illegalities at Mastro Auctions. It was obvious Mastro retains a love and interest in cards themselves.

He should write a book, as he has a lot of history of the early hobby.

It's true that Probstein sometimes interrupted him (People want to hear the answer not the question) and hurried him along. My impression is he had a time allotment for the story, and was doing time management. He could do a series.

[Bridwell]

In 1972, I bought a Ty Cobb T206 batting card from Irv Lerner at a Detroit card show for 40 cents. I picked out some other good ones for 10 cents each but he insisted on 40 cents for the Cobb. It had 2 light creases, and after 30 years it got a PSA 2. The most expensive card I saw that year was a Ruth Goudey card for $1.00.

A few years later, around 1980, I bought my Ty Cobb green portrait at a Detroit show for $10. I splurged on it because it was super nice. Some 25 years later, I got it graded PSA 5 and still have it.

[Tony Gordon]

Seems like some folks forgot the depth of Mastro's fraud or just plain don't know. Here is a link to the "American Greed" episode.

[ajjohnsonsoxfan]

Originally Posted by Bridwell

In 1972, I bought a Ty Cobb T206 batting card from Irv Lerner at a Detroit card show for 40 cents. I picked out some other good ones for 10 cents each but he insisted on 40 cents for the Cobb. It had 2 light creases, and after 30 years it got a PSA 2. The most expensive card I saw that year was a Ruth Goudey card for $1.00.

A few years later, around 1980, I bought my Ty Cobb green portrait at a Detroit show for $10. I splurged on it because it was super nice. Some 25 years later, I got it graded PSA 5 and still have it.

Man I love stories like this! I wish I was into vintage when I was a youngster instead of buying 1984 Topps, Donruss and Fleer. I remember getting hornswaggled by the card shop owner in Dansville CA selling the large format 84 Topps product. Said it would be huge! haha

[RL]

Originally Posted by Tony Gordon

Seems like some folks forgot the depth of Mastro's fraud or just plain don't know. Here is a link to the "American Greed" episode.

and the sad part is that some people will still defend that pos

[mrreality68]

Originally Posted by Tony Gordon

Seems like some folks forgot the depth of Mastro's fraud or just plain don't know. Here is a link to the "American Greed" episode.

Thanks for sharing this.
I knew most of the stories but this fills in a lot more details

[Fred]

I remember that episode of AG. Kind of brings things into perspective.